“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#21 Apr 5, 2014
dpx55 wrote:
<quoted text>
Those scholarships don't cost the school much of anything. It's an extra chair in a classroom that's already there, being paid for by kids whose families ARE paying. It's an extra bed in a dorm that's being paid for by someone else. The scholarship is merely a way for the school to bind the player to the school and prevent them from leaving for another school.
And they're NOT free to leave anytime and join a pro draft. Just ask Maurice Clarett. The NCAA saw to that. NCAA athletics is anything but "free market capitalism."
Of course the NCAA isn't free market, it's "non-profit"

Legally, every single college athletics program is a tax exempt charity, IE it can get tax deductible donations. Which are a none too small source of income for programs that believe it or not don't really make much money, if they make anything.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#22 Apr 5, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
As far as I know, they've been making billions of dollars for the universities so I think it's fair they get to share that profit. People who actually believe "student-athlete" are just simply naive.
http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue

Wrong, wrong, wrong

These programs aren't profitable, they only come close with "donations", because every one of these is a tax exempt charity.

If players can unionize, their scholarships should be treated as taxable, and the tax exempt status of the programs should be revoked.

Which would kill college sports as we know it.

Instead, say hello to NFL minor league football in Europe
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#24 Apr 5, 2014
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, then don't offer them SCHOLARSHIPS to study. Anti-capitalism? Really? That's not compensation? Those scholarships are worth anywhere from $25K and up per year, they get free room, board, education, medical care. They're competing to get scholarships to STUDY and play a SPORT. They're free to leave at anytime to join a pro draft. That's where free market capitalism comes in....
No more fake "Scholarships" then! Pay them with real compensation and stop pretending they are going to school for a god damn education. You want the college to pay them 25K when a single NCAA tournament TV contract worth 8.5 billion dollars! That's a load of crap and imagine how the Hedge Fund Managers are offered room and board and tuition reimbursement at Goldman Sachs instead of a salary! You clearly not understand a true free market capitalism, pay per performance, company bonuses.

On the other hand I found it amusing seeing naive posts about how priceless a piece of paper can be with the name of a school and a degree. These college presidents/pimps must do wonder selling the idea of a "student-athlete" and apparently a portion of the human race actually believes in the myth it is merely a amateur sport lol.
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#25 Apr 5, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue
Wrong, wrong, wrong
These programs aren't profitable, they only come close with "donations", because every one of these is a tax exempt charity.
If players can unionize, their scholarships should be treated as taxable, and the tax exempt status of the programs should be revoked.
Which would kill college sports as we know it.
Instead, say hello to NFL minor league football in Europe
Well the "donations" really help the star athletes with under the table "stipends" and the perks of getting brand new SUVs. It's like war on drugs everyone knows it's not going to stop why not make it legal for them to get paid. We are talking about the top players who is skilled enough to go pros. Other countries has youth academy to develop their players in early teens, our MLB and NHL offer some kind of a farm system. For a portion of them it hinder their development if you trap them in college playing. I don't have a problem if the less talented going to college but why should Lebron not be allowed to go pros? If he's good enough just like a talented employee should be allowed to perform at the appropriate level, we've been trying to treat everyone the same way and limit their potentials which to me is not a capitalist approach. It's socialism.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#26 Apr 5, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
No more fake "Scholarships" then! Pay them with real compensation and stop pretending they are going to school for a god damn education. You want the college to pay them 25K when a single NCAA tournament TV contract worth 8.5 billion dollars! That's a load of crap and imagine how the Hedge Fund Managers are offered room and board and tuition reimbursement at Goldman Sachs instead of a salary! You clearly not understand a true free market capitalism, pay per performance, company bonuses.
On the other hand I found it amusing seeing naive posts about how priceless a piece of paper can be with the name of a school and a degree. These college presidents/pimps must do wonder selling the idea of a "student-athlete" and apparently a portion of the human race actually believes in the myth it is merely a amateur sport lol.
Most athletes outside of the top D1 football and mens basketball programs, are actually there for the education

One of my friends from high school got a scholarship for running track at Ashland
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#27 Apr 5, 2014
The only thing about unionize them is to protect them from not getting medical treatment years after they played in college. You know concussion can last a decade on a player right? Should they be denied coverage for an illness directly result from the work they performed for the schools?

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#28 Apr 5, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
If he's good enough just like a talented employee should be allowed to perform at the appropriate level, we've been trying to treat everyone the same way and limit their potentials which to me is not a capitalist approach. It's socialism.
Pro sports is internally socialist, as is college sports

The closest we get to "capitalism" in sports is overseas futbol, with its promotion/relegation and the outright buying/selling of players

College sports exists on being a 501(c) nonprofit

https://www.giveto.osu.edu/igive/onlinegiving...

(Karl mentions the above as an example, I do not condone funding that criminal enterprise)

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#29 Apr 5, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
The only thing about unionize them is to protect them from not getting medical treatment years after they played in college. You know concussion can last a decade on a player right? Should they be denied coverage for an illness directly result from the work they performed for the schools?
I heard the ACA covers it
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#30 Apr 5, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Most athletes outside of the top D1 football and mens basketball programs, are actually there for the education
One of my friends from high school got a scholarship for running track at Ashland
Again, you are trapping the other elite athletes from turning pros or receiving a compensation based on their performance that is equivalent to pros. In a free market system, good workers receive higher salaries than average and average workers receives higher than poor workers. Are you suggesting all 80 football players or 15 basketball players are performing the same level with the same skill sets not one is better than others?

Your friend got a scholarship for track that's great, track does not generate revenue like football and basketball do. We are using the revenue of the 2 major sports to subsidize the other minor sports so it is socialized system. In a true capitalist society we let the weak fails we do not pick winner and looser.
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#31 Apr 5, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Pro sports is internally socialist, as is college sports
The closest we get to "capitalism" in sports is overseas futbol, with its promotion/relegation and the outright buying/selling of players
College sports exists on being a 501(c) nonprofit
https://www.giveto.osu.edu/igive/onlinegiving...
(Karl mentions the above as an example, I do not condone funding that criminal enterprise)
Pros allow the use of agent who allow athlete to negotiate their own contracts. They have union that's the only socialistic tool. College is communist when a "community" decides that the "people/schools" owns the resources and they determine every sport and player "shares" the goods together.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#32 Apr 6, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
Pros allow the use of agent who allow athlete to negotiate their own contracts. They have union that's the only socialistic tool. College is communist when a "community" decides that the "people/schools" owns the resources and they determine every sport and player "shares" the goods together.
Sure, each player negotiates his own contract. But each school in the NCAA also offers a scholarship that is basically different from school to school, depending upon tuition costs and other costs. Really no sharing. Each student has a responsibility: to play the sport and maintain a specific GPA to remain eligible for scholarship. The best of student athletes often have several offers from different school in which to choose from. Good ol' competition right there.

Also NCAA enables a student to walk on a team, no scholarship. Pros don't.

Fact is, most student athletes do not go pro. They obtain an education and move on to other career. You're stripping that ability away to get a free college education. Methinks you're looking too narrowly at the problem: the big name football or basketball programs that make it seem like college athletics is a huge money making scheme. Sure, they generate a lot of revenue, but barely pay for themselves. The other sports, that you are ignoring: baseball, lacrosse, soccer, track, etc. are often subsidized by the larger programs. And these students too receive scholarships to play. These kids, the overwhelming majority of student athletes, will suffer.

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#33 Apr 6, 2014
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Qu...
Requirements to maintain an NCAA scholarship.
I am not.

http://news.yahoo.com/unc-still-dealing-3-yea...

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-...

It's going on everywhere. Has been for years and years. If you don't believe it, you have blinders on.

Just because the NCAA has a rule and requirements does not mean anyone is adhering to them.

Wake up.

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#34 Apr 6, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course the NCAA isn't free market, it's "non-profit"
Legally, every single college athletics program is a tax exempt charity, IE it can get tax deductible donations. Which are a none too small source of income for programs that believe it or not don't really make much money, if they make anything.
Oh, please. Really? Legally, yes but in no other way are they a charitable organization.

Ohio State Athletics operating budget is $80 Million. that does not include the tens of millions more in "donations." The coaches are multimillionaires. The ADs are multimillionaires.

That's a weak excuse, at best.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#35 Apr 6, 2014
dpx55 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, please. Really? Legally, yes but in no other way are they a charitable organization.
Ohio State Athletics operating budget is $80 Million. that does not include the tens of millions more in "donations." The coaches are multimillionaires. The ADs are multimillionaires.
That's a weak excuse, at best.
The donors have no problem with those salaries. Donors can and have removed people they don't like.

Unionization, would be followed by privatization, arguably killing off all but the top 25 programs

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#36 Apr 6, 2014
dpx55 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not.
http://news.yahoo.com/unc-still-dealing-3-yea...
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-...
It's going on everywhere. Has been for years and years. If you don't believe it, you have blinders on.
Just because the NCAA has a rule and requirements does not mean anyone is adhering to them.
Wake up.
And the NCAA has sanctions for incidents like these. Looks like you have a burn against UNC.

Unfortunately, scandals over grades and other issues happen. I never said I didn't believe that they happened. What I did point out is there there ARE eligibility rules, and the universities AND NCAA have the ability to crack down on it. You think unionizing will make them better students and the UNIONS would crack down on the kids for not doing their homework or showing up in the classroom? That type of crap happens when the faculty cover for the kids. Do you think "paying" kids and unionizing them is going to change the GPA? Nope. It tells kids "hey, this is a JOB and it's more important than your education."

As for the ADs and coaches making millions, no duh. But that's also driven by market demand. If the universities had the b@lls to say "hell no" to those outrageous salaries, then we'll talk. But salaries for ADs and coaches do not come from the sports revenues. They come I believe from the general operating budgets. Weak argument IMHO for supporting unionizing AMATEUR athletes. I do agree the salaries are often outrageous, especially given that adjunct faculty often make less than jack, sometimes without benefits and part-time while attempting to compete for tenure. And they are EDUCATING these kids. If you want to get a burn on about college salaries, look into that matter.
Surprise you

Columbus, OH

#37 Apr 7, 2014
Woody Hayes = Dad's Hero

Dont' talk bad about the Buckeyes, friends.
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#38 Apr 7, 2014
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, each player negotiates his own contract. But each school in the NCAA also offers a scholarship that is basically different from school to school, depending upon tuition costs and other costs. Really no sharing. Each student has a responsibility: to play the sport and maintain a specific GPA to remain eligible for scholarship. The best of student athletes often have several offers from different school in which to choose from. Good ol' competition right there.
Also NCAA enables a student to walk on a team, no scholarship. Pros don't.
Fact is, most student athletes do not go pro. They obtain an education and move on to other career. You're stripping that ability away to get a free college education. Methinks you're looking too narrowly at the problem: the big name football or basketball programs that make it seem like college athletics is a huge money making scheme. Sure, they generate a lot of revenue, but barely pay for themselves. The other sports, that you are ignoring: baseball, lacrosse, soccer, track, etc. are often subsidized by the larger programs. And these students too receive scholarships to play. These kids, the overwhelming majority of student athletes, will suffer.
I get the part that most college athletes go to school for an education I do not have a problem with that. But to keep the top 1% who will turn pros in the trap as they have to follow the myth of NCAA rules is injustice. Scholarship is not money, they tell you it's worth $70,000 but would no one think it's cash value. Ask any college presidents or AD or professors to give up pay in exchange of tuition credit, or room and board. Even graduate teaching assistants receive stipends and the regular students can have work/study program to get paid, but for some hypocritical NCAA rules football players cannot obtain a part time job because the main job they have is to play and practice football and anything outside of their football life is disrupting their "job".

An Ohio State wrestler won the Big 10 tournament, AD Gene Smith received $18,000 bonus pay because of that. Why? Was he the reason the kid won the tournament? The worst thing happened a week later when his hometown wanted to celebrate and the local restaurant set up autograph session and they want to pay for the dinner event, and guess what? NCAA said no because he would violate the "student" athlete policy or obtaining monetary compensation. Oh and the adults are milking these kids like a sweat shop owners, you think that's fair???

Give the kids money just like allowance to live like a human being. For the minor sports they need to balance their own budgets. Every sport should be self-sufficient and if the funding are lacking they should not offer scholarship. They can play sports and pay for tuition like NCAA Div 3 schools do.
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#39 Apr 9, 2014
It's not fair, you can't have it both ways. If you are making money off of the kids you should allow them to make a little of endorsement like the local town events.
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#40 Apr 11, 2014
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, let's make them pro at the student level. Let's tax their scholarships if they are employees.
/sarcasm.
Unions have no business in college athletics.
If they would have been allowed to live with a decent stipends like a human being, the unions wouldn't have to step in. They asked for it. And no one in this forum seem to have an answer how to take care of the athletics if they are suffering life long illness like concussion. So just let this thread dies since no one has the courage to fix a broken corrupted system.

If it broke why fix it?
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#41 Apr 11, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
I heard the ACA covers it
See that's why people don't take you seriously, you have no answer on how to deal with college athletes suffer severe injuries. Who's paying for a concussion treatment? Maybe they should go to ER like everyone else and have the taxpayers pick up the tab huh?

Let this thread die no one have a clue how to fix collegiate athletics machine.

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