NHS: Babies put on 'Death Pathways'

NHS: Babies put on 'Death Pathways'

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“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#1 Nov 29, 2012
Horrific.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22400...

Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how children are put on end-of-life plan

- Practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube being used on young patients
- Doctor admits starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in neonatal unit
- Liverpool Care Pathway subject of independent inquiry ordered by ministers
- Investigation, including child patients, will look at whether cash payments to hospitals to hit death pathway targets have influenced doctors' decisions

by Sue Reid and Simon Caldwell

Sick children are being discharged from NHS hospitals to die at home or in hospices on controversial ‘death pathways’.

Until now, end of life regime the Liverpool Care Pathway was thought to have involved only elderly and terminally-ill adults.

But the Mail can reveal the practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube is being used on young patients as well as severely disabled newborn babies.

One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone.

Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’.

The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers....
Liberal Troll

Akron, OH

#2 Nov 29, 2012
The left is at it again, coming soon...

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#3 Nov 29, 2012
The article makes it sound a bit like doctors are going around murdering babies, which is to be expected from the Mail but is still rather difficult to incorporate into intelligent discourse. The process being described here is where the parent or member of kin legally entitled to make medical choices for the terminally ill minor chooses not to rely on artificial methods to sustain the life of the patient.

From what I understand of the legal processes behind such directives, they're surprisingly similar to the processes in the United States where if a directive written by the patient specifying the level of care they would require while incapacitated, the person designated as responsible for making medical decisions for them is able to choose the level of intervention permitted to continue their lives. If I understand, there was a rather noisy case on this in the states years back, with the same sort of feeding tube withdrawal.
Lark

Blacklick, OH

#4 Nov 29, 2012
-tip- wrote:
Horrific.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22400...
Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how children are put on end-of-life plan
- Practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube being used on young patients
- Doctor admits starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in neonatal unit
- Liverpool Care Pathway subject of independent inquiry ordered by ministers
- Investigation, including child patients, will look at whether cash payments to hospitals to hit death pathway targets have influenced doctors' decisions
by Sue Reid and Simon Caldwell
Sick children are being discharged from NHS hospitals to die at home or in hospices on controversial ‘death pathways’.
Until now, end of life regime the Liverpool Care Pathway was thought to have involved only elderly and terminally-ill adults.
But the Mail can reveal the practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube is being used on young patients as well as severely disabled newborn babies.
One doctor has admitted starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in the neonatal unit of one hospital alone.
Writing in a leading medical journal, the physician revealed the process can take an average of ten days during which a baby becomes ‘smaller and shrunken’.
The LCP – on which 130,000 elderly and terminally-ill adult patients die each year – is now the subject of an independent inquiry ordered by ministers....
WTF? I take a nap and wake up to find we're Britons? GTFO!

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#5 Nov 29, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
The article makes it sound a bit like doctors are going around murdering babies, which is to be expected from the Mail but is still rather difficult to incorporate into intelligent discourse. The process being described here is where the parent or member of kin legally entitled to make medical choices for the terminally ill minor chooses not to rely on artificial methods to sustain the life of the patient.
From what I understand of the legal processes behind such directives, they're surprisingly similar to the processes in the United States where if a directive written by the patient specifying the level of care they would require while incapacitated, the person designated as responsible for making medical decisions for them is able to choose the level of intervention permitted to continue their lives. If I understand, there was a rather noisy case on this in the states years back, with the same sort of feeding tube withdrawal.
Food and water are NOT "artificial methods," dolt.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#6 Nov 29, 2012
Lark wrote:
<quoted text>
WTF? I take a nap and wake up to find we're Britons? GTFO!
Where did anyone make that claim?

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#7 Nov 29, 2012
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Food and water are NOT "artificial methods," dolt.
Feeding tubes are indeed.

Discontinuing iv fluids and feeding tubes are an accepted manner of withdrawing artificial life support in both the US and UK.

While some states have tried to incorporate language which would discourage the refusal of food and fluids through artificial methods, the general medical consensus that these methods constitute a medical treatment would, in my understanding, allow for refusal as a legal refusal of medical treatment.

It's not an uncommon choice for guardians to make, whether or not a feeding tube should be placed and if so, for how long.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#8 Nov 29, 2012
When I saw the headline, I thought this was going to be about Ohio's new status as having one of the highest rates in the country of infant death in our black population.

But, I guess folks think it's OK if it happens in a free market, eh?
Lark

Blacklick, OH

#9 Nov 29, 2012
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did anyone make that claim?
Then what's the point of posting the article if it's not happening here except to keep the right wing nuts on a full screaming boil?

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#10 Nov 29, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Feeding tubes are indeed.
Discontinuing iv fluids and feeding tubes are an accepted manner of withdrawing artificial life support in both the US and UK.
While some states have tried to incorporate language which would discourage the refusal of food and fluids through artificial methods, the general medical consensus that these methods constitute a medical treatment would, in my understanding, allow for refusal as a legal refusal of medical treatment.
It's not an uncommon choice for guardians to make, whether or not a feeding tube should be placed and if so, for how long.
How do forcible starvation and dehydration comport with the Hippocratic Oath?
Why wouldn't physicians use a bullet instead, shortening that 10-day timeframe for infant death by dehydration/starvation?
Think of the economic benefits.

/s

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#11 Nov 29, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
When I saw the headline, I thought this was going to be about Ohio's new status as having one of the highest rates in the country of infant death in our black population.
But, I guess folks think it's OK if it happens in a free market, eh?
Are physicians purposefully causing the death of these infants?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#12 Nov 29, 2012
Lark wrote:
<quoted text>
Then what's the point of posting the article if it's not happening here except to keep the right wing nuts on a full screaming boil?
BINGO!

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#13 Nov 29, 2012
Lark wrote:
<quoted text>
Then what's the point of posting the article if it's not happening here except to keep the right wing nuts on a full screaming boil?
Now, birdshot...I have no problem with.
Lark

Blacklick, OH

#14 Nov 29, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
When I saw the headline, I thought this was going to be about Ohio's new status as having one of the highest rates in the country of infant death in our black population.
But, I guess folks think it's OK if it happens in a free market, eh?
Yes, if it's blacks.(Just saying what Oliver Twit is thinking.)

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#15 Nov 29, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
BINGO!
So...you're OK with physician-caused infant death by dehydration/starvation...as long as it isn't happening here?

No surprise. That position coincides with your pro-Islam views also.

Did you decorate the rabbit hole for Christmas, or does that thought offend your all-tolerant sensibilities?

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16 Nov 29, 2012
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
How do forcible starvation and dehydration comport with the Hippocratic Oath?
Why wouldn't physicians use a bullet instead, shortening that 10-day timeframe for infant death by dehydration/starvation?
Think of the economic benefits.
/s
Euthanasia is illegal in both the UK and US while the ability for a patient to refuse treatment which artificially prolongs life* or to have a guardian to refuse on their behalf remains legal.

I'm not really sure where this specific outrage comes from. The practice is commonly known, in both the UK and US. While the Mail here is trying to imply that these children are being failed medically by their doctors and parents being unwilling to apply treatments to extend their lives through terminal conditions, looking at the papers and writings of the medical professionals quoted in this article demonstrate a desire on the institutional level for swifter and more humane methods of end of life care. Their concern, if I am reading correctly, seems not to be that these dying children are being allowed to die, but instead that the permitted routes for this process are unduly slow and painful.

*the ability for a guardian to refuse lifesaving treatment for their ward is far more limited, usually to the point of being seen as not possible

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#17 Nov 29, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Euthanasia is illegal in both the UK and US while the ability for a patient to refuse treatment which artificially prolongs life* or to have a guardian to refuse on their behalf remains legal.
I'm not really sure where this specific outrage comes from. The practice is commonly known, in both the UK and US. While the Mail here is trying to imply that these children are being failed medically by their doctors and parents being unwilling to apply treatments to extend their lives through terminal conditions, looking at the papers and writings of the medical professionals quoted in this article demonstrate a desire on the institutional level for swifter and more humane methods of end of life care. Their concern, if I am reading correctly, seems not to be that these dying children are being allowed to die, but instead that the permitted routes for this process are unduly slow and painful.
*the ability for a guardian to refuse lifesaving treatment for their ward is far more limited, usually to the point of being seen as not possible
I wouldn't expect outrage from the likes of you.

http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article... (05)66824-9/fulltext

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#18 Nov 29, 2012
http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article... (05)66824-9/fulltext

From the Lancet:

RIP medical profession?

David C Stolinsky

In the Talking Point “Peaceful ending”(Apr 23), I assume it is the patient whom the editor refers to as being very near a persistent vegetative state, and being slowly dehydrated and starved to death. But the editor could just as well have been referring to the medical profession itself, which—having abandoned the Hippocratic Oath—is also being slowly dehydrated and starved to death. Rather than independent professionals, exercising our best judgment for the patient's benefit, we are slowly but surely becoming mere technicians, serving the economic interests of our employers.

Apparently none of the editors noted the contradiction between the Comment that the Talking Point highlighted, in which it was claimed that 8 days without food or water is pleasant,1 and the previous week's Editorial, which claimed that underdosing of sedatives in the execution of convicted murderers is an “atrocity”.2 Indeed, the peaceful ending of our profession is at hand. The process of desiccation is already far advanced.

I declare that I have no conflict of interest.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#19 Nov 29, 2012
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
So...you're OK with physician-caused infant death by dehydration/starvation...as long as it isn't happening here?
No surprise. That position coincides with your pro-Islam views also.
Did you decorate the rabbit hole for Christmas, or does that thought offend your all-tolerant sensibilities?
tip, sometimes there is just no other way to say things.

You're an idiot.

And, are you OK with the death rates of black infants in Ohio?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#20 Nov 29, 2012
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't expect outrage from the likes of you.
http://www.lancet.com/journals/lancet/article... (05)66824-9/fulltext
Are you outraged by the high rates of black infant death in the state of Ohio?

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