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“animis opibusque parati”

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#345
Feb 4, 2013
 
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure what to tell you as their data isn't sourced (unless they're just counting members under 17?).
You're more than welcome to check my numbers through the Girl Scout annual reports!
Yes, active girl members.

2011 Annual Report:

2,282,817 Girl Members

[counting 883,521 Adult members: 3,166,338 TOTAL]

But the point is that active youth participation is declining in both the GSA and BSA.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#346
Feb 4, 2013
 
Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>Your ignorance of history never ceases to amaze...
Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
It was ratified on February 3, 1913.
Your inability to know when you are being messed with never ceases to amaze.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#347
Feb 4, 2013
 
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a little more realistic picture Paco:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
I'll let you figure out your errors.
woof
It's your error...and it's huge.

The referenced study of sexual abuse in the public schools spanned a 5-year period...and was then directly compared to sexual abuse within the Catholic Church spanning a 52-year period [1950-2002].

Go take a nap.
Make sure no teachers are nearby.

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

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#348
Feb 4, 2013
 
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Your inability to know when you are being messed with never ceases to amaze.
Che's stupidity about history tells me that wasn't the case.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#349
Feb 4, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
You have asserted that the public schools are now regulating, reporting and removing teacher-student sex offenders; hence, the abundance of weekly headlines for "hey now." Problem solved, correct?
HuffPo provided evidence that union contracts delay and sometimes prevent the removal of known offenders [recall their article detailing the NY teacher, who after teaching only 1 year prior to his sex offense, was paid $1M+ over a period of 10 years to sit at a desk].
However, none of you leftists seem very concerned about the continuing teacher-student sex abuse in the public schools and its attendant waste of taxpayer dollars -- in spite of school policy changes.
You seem more intent on bashing the Catholic Church which has taken a more effective step to reduce future child abuse -- namely, removing offenders and enablers and, further, denying priesthood to known homosexuals, who accounted for 80% of the adult-child sex abuse cases within the Church.
Which...brings us back to the original topic of this thread:
The BSA is currently considering removing its ban on homosexuals, in spite of the overwhelming evidence from the Catholic Church fiasco. It is tantamount to inviting the foxes to guard the hen house.
In fact, based on the new policies of the above three institutions [public schools, Catholic Church, BSA -- assuming the BSA lifts its ban], children would be safest in the hands of the Catholic Church.
You err in equating homosexuals with those who abuse children. True pedophiles may or may not have a gender preference. Their preference is children. While some also have a preference, for many this is determined merely by convenience--those children who are accessible to them. True pedophiles are frequently incapable of adult sexual relationships with either gender.

Therefore, instituting a ban on the entry of homosexuals into the priesthood (or into leadership or participation in scouts) is of very little utility. And in the case of the BSA, it leads to such absurd positions as barring a lesbian mother from being her son's den mother.

You remind me of a fairly intelligent, but also stubborn and somewhat old-fashioned fellow with whom I once had an extended conversation about birth defects. He was absolutely convinced that club foot was the result of a pregnant woman being frightened by a horse. He knew of a case in which the two could be linked and his faith in his belief was absolutely unshakeable. Modern science can trace various causes of birth anomalies, none of them having to do with various animals startling the pregnant mother. Modern science also discriminates between homosexuals who have healthy same-gender adult relationships and those (both hetero- and homosexual) who abuse children sexually. But some will simply not let go of their old prejudices.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#350
Feb 4, 2013
 
Reality Speaks wrote:
Boy Scouts
not rump rangers in training
Boy Scouts utilize the word God in their oath; and God calls gay behavior an abomination.
am I missing something?
when are the Girl Scouts going to allow boys to join; and spend summer camp in tents together?
Can I tell you any parent with a brain would never let their son join a gay boy scout troop ever.
Boy Scouts ends the day they allow gays. It will only be the queer patrol from then on because no self respecting normal person would join.
These are the facts; and they are not disputable.
You must lead an interesting life--limiting yourself to only those situations in which you will encounter only heterosexuals.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#351
Feb 4, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
You err in equating homosexuals with those who abuse children. True pedophiles may or may not have a gender preference. Their preference is children. While some also have a preference, for many this is determined merely by convenience--those children who are accessible to them. True pedophiles are frequently incapable of adult sexual relationships with either gender.
Therefore, instituting a ban on the entry of homosexuals into the priesthood (or into leadership or participation in scouts) is of very little utility. And in the case of the BSA, it leads to such absurd positions as barring a lesbian mother from being her son's den mother.
You remind me of a fairly intelligent, but also stubborn and somewhat old-fashioned fellow with whom I once had an extended conversation about birth defects. He was absolutely convinced that club foot was the result of a pregnant woman being frightened by a horse. He knew of a case in which the two could be linked and his faith in his belief was absolutely unshakeable. Modern science can trace various causes of birth anomalies, none of them having to do with various animals startling the pregnant mother. Modern science also discriminates between homosexuals who have healthy same-gender adult relationships and those (both hetero- and homosexual) who abuse children sexually. But some will simply not let go of their old prejudices.
80%, Reader...80%.
No prejudices. Just facts.

“Meh.”

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#352
Feb 4, 2013
 

Judged:

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, active girl members.
2011 Annual Report:
2,282,817 Girl Members
[counting 883,521 Adult members: 3,166,338 TOTAL]
But the point is that active youth participation is declining in both the GSA and BSA.
Ah, thanks, I was starting to think I had screwed something up!

Even without the boy scouts taking action now, I don't think the policy would hold another 10 years or so. Gays and lesbians aren't boogeymen for the larger public any longer and acceptance of them participating socially is growing pretty rapidly. Given recent developments and the turn in public opinion, I don't really see how many of the stranger discriminatory policies we see in the odd corner are going to hold out in coming years.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#353
Feb 4, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
...and, thanks to teachers' unions, the right of teacher-student sex offenders to retain a taxpayer-funded salary for 10+ years, soaking taxpayers for $1M+.
Extrapolate that scenario...nationally, together with the known teacher-student sex offender cover-ups...and what is revealed is systemic teacher-student sex abuse, cover-ups and union extortion far exceeding that of the Catholic Church.
As an atheist, you simply refuse to acknowledge those truths.
And, that brings another question to mind...
If man is only a purposeless machine that developed by accident, then why be morally outraged when one of them violates another?
Tip--NYC is a rather bad example to extrapolate from, for numerous reasons.

However, what seems to be happening in NYC is that various accused teachers are removed from the classroom. Their "rubber room" employment seems to be the result of numerous delays in processing removals (I don't know how/why). I am not sufficiently familiar with the licensing laws in NY state to know how it is that these teachers do no lose licenses while in their rubber room state.

The Dispatch has an article today pointing to a specific difficulty in Ohio--which provides more pertinent insight. Ohio relies heavily on local decision-making. Hence, the rules for teacher removal (and most other things) tend to rely on the local district to make the actual determination.

So--if you are interested in systemic reform, I would suggest two available avenues to you. One would be to look into your own local district situation--write to your school board and ASK what their policy is and lobby for something clearer and swifter if needed. The other is to write to your legislator to ask for more legal guidance from the state clarifying exactly which instances warrant immediate classroom removal, as well as what is to happen on removal (paid leave pending legal action? unpaid leave? paid administrative work in buildings without children?).

Makes far more sense than endless blathering on here about your perception that the public schools get away with more than the Catholic Church.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#354
Feb 4, 2013
 
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, thanks, I was starting to think I had screwed something up!
Even without the boy scouts taking action now, I don't think the policy would hold another 10 years or so. Gays and lesbians aren't boogeymen for the larger public any longer and acceptance of them participating socially is growing pretty rapidly. Given recent developments and the turn in public opinion, I don't really see how many of the stranger discriminatory policies we see in the odd corner are going to hold out in coming years.
Perhaps you should pop over and ask the Rt. Rev. Justin Welby about that.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#355
Feb 4, 2013
 
Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>Your ignorance of history never ceases to amaze...
Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
It was ratified on February 3, 1913.
Did I miss something?

Did the Sixteenth Amendment overturn the Constitution?

And, if so, would it not then take the place the original?

“animis opibusque parati”

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#356
Feb 4, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Tip--NYC is a rather bad example to extrapolate from, for numerous reasons.
However, what seems to be happening in NYC is that various accused teachers are removed from the classroom. Their "rubber room" employment seems to be the result of numerous delays in processing removals (I don't know how/why). I am not sufficiently familiar with the licensing laws in NY state to know how it is that these teachers do no lose licenses while in their rubber room state.
The Dispatch has an article today pointing to a specific difficulty in Ohio--which provides more pertinent insight. Ohio relies heavily on local decision-making. Hence, the rules for teacher removal (and most other things) tend to rely on the local district to make the actual determination.
So--if you are interested in systemic reform, I would suggest two available avenues to you. One would be to look into your own local district situation--write to your school board and ASK what their policy is and lobby for something clearer and swifter if needed. The other is to write to your legislator to ask for more legal guidance from the state clarifying exactly which instances warrant immediate classroom removal, as well as what is to happen on removal (paid leave pending legal action? unpaid leave? paid administrative work in buildings without children?).
Makes far more sense than endless blathering on here about your perception that the public schools get away with more than the Catholic Church.
I am not addressing reform...even as you repeatedly attempt to redirect this thread.

I am addressing the blatant lies put forth by the leftist media, and parroted by Topix posters such as yourself...that the adult-child sex abuse crisis in the Catholic Church dwarfs and is somehow more heinous than any other in comparison.

Only a fool would believe such propaganda, particularly after even a cursory comparison to the teacher-student sex abuse crisis within the U.S. public school system which serves nearly 50 MILLION students.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#357
Feb 4, 2013
 
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a little more realistic picture Paco:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
I'll let you figure out your errors.
woof
Excellent article.

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#358
Feb 4, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
80%, Reader...80%.
No prejudices. Just facts.
80% of reported child abuse cases in the Catholic Church were male-on-male.

Given the high rate of unreported child abuse cases (1 in 10), it is risky at best to extrapolate from reported cases.

And, the reality that you continue to ignore is that adult gender preference is by no means predictive of tendancies to abuse children of either gender.

Of the 80% that you cite, how many had any evidence of adult sexual attraction? And to what gender?

Jerry Sandusky, so far as we know, exclusively abused boys. Yet, he was a married man, by all outward appearance heterosexual. No evidence whatsoever of adult homosexual relationships. And only his wife (who isn't likely to speak on the matter) can attest to what their relations were.

But, we know that you will continue to reject any scientific research into the matter.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#359
Feb 4, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
It's your error...and it's huge.
The referenced study of sexual abuse in the public schools spanned a 5-year period...and was then directly compared to sexual abuse within the Catholic Church spanning a 52-year period [1950-2002].
Go take a nap.
Make sure no teachers are nearby.
What was portrayed was nonething akin to a systemic cover-up of known abuse.

Do you understand the difference between a sin of ommission and a sin of commission?

The Catholic church is a global hierarchy.

Public education in the United States is divided into fifty individual state systems. Each of these systems is then subdivided into an enormous number of local districts whose degree of autonomy varies based on their individual state set up.

Two different kinds of problems. In the realm of public education, the biggest issue (beyond the universal of nobody ever wants to believe it is possible) is one of falling between the cracks of all these divergent systems.

In the realm of the Catholic Church, the cracks are not there--which ought to have facilitated removal of offenders. However, what took place instead was an institutional protective move, which solved problems in one locale by moving them to another--and a refusal to allow for a role for law enforcement. And when this came to light, the institution has been very slow to allow for either the release of records, or in many cases, restitution to victims.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#360
Feb 4, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
80% of reported child abuse cases in the Catholic Church were male-on-male.
Given the high rate of unreported child abuse cases (1 in 10), it is risky at best to extrapolate from reported cases.
And, the reality that you continue to ignore is that adult gender preference is by no means predictive of tendancies to abuse children of either gender.
Of the 80% that you cite, how many had any evidence of adult sexual attraction? And to what gender?
Jerry Sandusky, so far as we know, exclusively abused boys. Yet, he was a married man, by all outward appearance heterosexual. No evidence whatsoever of adult homosexual relationships. And only his wife (who isn't likely to speak on the matter) can attest to what their relations were.
But, we know that you will continue to reject any scientific research into the matter.
Your refusal to accept the fact that 80% of the adult-child sex abuse within the Catholic Church was homosexual in nature does not change that fact.

How ridiculous for you to assert that extrapolation "is risky" in a matter where a clear majority of the cases reflect an undeniable trend.

Even more ridiculous is your continued assertion that pedophilia cannot be identified as homosexual in nature. No bias there, eh, Reader?

For your reference:

ho-mo-sex-u-al

1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex

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#361
Feb 4, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not addressing reform...even as you repeatedly attempt to redirect this thread.
I am addressing the blatant lies put forth by the leftist media, and parroted by Topix posters such as yourself...that the adult-child sex abuse crisis in the Catholic Church dwarfs and is somehow more heinous than any other in comparison.
Only a fool would believe such propaganda, particularly after even a cursory comparison to the teacher-student sex abuse crisis within the U.S. public school system which serves nearly 50 MILLION students.
tip--the topic of this forum was the move by the BSA to drop their universal ban on participation at all levels by persons who are homosexual.

I certainly did not introduce the Catholic Church.

I will reiterate my first comment, which is that the BSA is by no means ceding the high road by this policy change. Their policy has been one of protection of adult-child sexual offenders within their ranks, frequently allowing them to move from one geographic locale to another and attempting to "manage" this problem through the maintenance of secret files, rather than the involvement of law enforcement.

At this point, they have made themselves look totally ridiculous by banning a lesbian den mother and refusing the Eagle Scout award to a young man who has come out as gay, following years of BSA involvement, presumably before he was old enough to deal with issues of sexual attraction. And to pretend that such choices have anything to do with protecting children from abuse--particularly in the light of their earlier and continuing actions--is the height of hypocrisy.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#362
Feb 4, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
What was portrayed was nonething akin to a systemic cover-up of known abuse.
Do you understand the difference between a sin of ommission and a sin of commission?
The Catholic church is a global hierarchy.
Public education in the United States is divided into fifty individual state systems. Each of these systems is then subdivided into an enormous number of local districts whose degree of autonomy varies based on their individual state set up.
Two different kinds of problems. In the realm of public education, the biggest issue (beyond the universal of nobody ever wants to believe it is possible) is one of falling between the cracks of all these divergent systems.
In the realm of the Catholic Church, the cracks are not there--which ought to have facilitated removal of offenders. However, what took place instead was an institutional protective move, which solved problems in one locale by moving them to another--and a refusal to allow for a role for law enforcement. And when this came to light, the institution has been very slow to allow for either the release of records, or in many cases, restitution to victims.
ROFLMAO...so, because the U.S. public school system is broken down into local districts, the public schools cannot be found guilty of systemic cover-up of teacher-student sex abuse? Are you serious? In your words, the problem in the public schools “is one of falling between the cracks”? Are you ****ing serious?
You know...you and your anti-Catholic, pro-homosexual Topix cohorts might educate yourselves if you actually read the links I provide, though it is obvious from your posts that you have an aversion to truth.
But for kicks & grins...repetitive spoonfeeding commence....
07/30/2001, New York Post:

At least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day in New York City schools, a Post investigation has found.

Equally as disturbing is that one-third of the employees accused of sex abuse are repeat offenders, who've already been cited for inappropriate behavior by school officials.

"It has reached critical mass," said Schools Special Investigator Edward Stancik. "I think it's very hard for anybody to deny that we have a real problem."

...Among the observations, The Post investigation has found that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse - mostly tenured teachers - were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside schools. Forty percent of those transferred suspects were repeat offenders.

Problem teachers, who sometimes get away with a sexual offense, are surreptitiously transferred to other schools - a practice known as "passing the garbage."....

“animis opibusque parati”

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#363
Feb 4, 2013
 
p2

02/05/2008, National Catholic Register:

For anyone who watches local news, it’s an inescapable fact: Some teachers and coaches in public schools are sexual predators who prey on kids.

And here’s another fact of life that’s becoming apparent: Principals and teachers who know about sexual abuse sometimes fail to report it.

In late January, for example, a Denver middle school principal was charged with failing to report an allegation of child abuse. The lawyer for Nicole Veltze told the Associated Press his client is the scapegoat in a battle over reporting requirements between Denver public schools and the Denver Police Department.

Sherryll Kraizer, executive director of the Denver-based Safe Child Program, said it is commonplace for principals and teachers to neglect laws that require them to report sexual abuse of children.

“I see it regularly,” Kraizer said.“There are laws against failing to report, but the law is almost never enforced. Almost never.”...

Kraizer sees the documentation first-hand as a professional witness for prosecutors and defense lawyers in cases of childhood sexual abuse allegations. She has personally reviewed dozens of cases in which teachers and administrators neglected to contact authorities regarding knowledge of abuse.

Kraizer said she doesn’t suspect any kind of organized conspiracy in which principals and teachers have conspired to protect abusers. She said it’s subtler than that.

“These are people who work together and socialize,” Kraizer said.“It’s counterintuitive for them to take it outside of the organization....

09/22/2009, CBS News:

...Consider the statistics: In accordance with a requirement of President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act, in 2002 the Department of Education carried out a study of sexual abuse in the school system.

Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.

"[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

So, in order to better protect children, did media outlets start hounding the worse menace of the school systems, with headlines about a "Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up" and by asking "Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?"

No, they didn't. That treatment was reserved for the Catholic Church, while the greater problem in the schools was ignored altogether.

As the National Catholic Register's reporter Wayne Laugesen points out, the federal report said 422,000 California public-school students would be victims before graduation — a number that dwarfs the state's entire Catholic-school enrollment of 143,000.

Yet, during the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran four stories about the federal government's discovery of the much larger — and ongoing — abuse scandal in public schools....

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#364
Feb 4, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Your refusal to accept the fact that 80% of the adult-child sex abuse within the Catholic Church was homosexual in nature does not change that fact.
How ridiculous for you to assert that extrapolation "is risky" in a matter where a clear majority of the cases reflect an undeniable trend.
Even more ridiculous is your continued assertion that pedophilia cannot be identified as homosexual in nature. No bias there, eh, Reader?
For your reference:
ho-mo-sex-u-al
1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
Fortunately psychiatrist, psychologists, medical practitioners and counselors have to study a bit more than Webster in order to practice.

Should you choose to be edified, you might consider this:

Q: I've heard therapists say that a male adult who sexually abuses a boy isn't necessarily ‘homosexual.' This seems confusing: If he isn't homosexual, then why would he sexually molest boys, instead of girls?

This is a very good question, and there are several ways to respond to it. First, we need to clarify our definitions. When discussing sexual abuse and molestation of children, there's often conflict over terminology. One frequently quoted researchers on the topic of homosexuality and child molestation, Gregory Herek, a research psychologist at the University of California, defines pedophilia as "a psychosexual disorder characterized by a preference for prepubescent children as sexual partners, which may or may not be acted upon." He defines child sexual abuse as "actual sexual contact between an adult and someone who has not reached the legal age of consent." Not all pedophiles actually molest children, he points out. A pedophile may be attracted to children, but never actually engage in sexual contact with them. Quite often, pedophiles never develop a sexual orientation toward other adults.

Herek points out that child molestation and child sexual abuse refer to "actions," without implying any "particular psychological makeup or motive on the part of the perpetrator." In other words, not all incidents of child sexual abuse are perpetrated by pedophiles. Pedophilia can be viewed as a kind of sexual fetish, wherein the person requires the mental image of a child--not necessarily a flesh-and-blood child--to achieve sexual gratification. Rarely does a pedophile experience sexual desire for adults of either gender. They usually don't identify as homosexual–the majority identify as heterosexual, even those who abuse children of the same gender They are sexually aroused by youth, not by gender. In contrast, child molesters often exert power and control over children in an effort to dominate them. They do experience sexual desire for adults, but molest children episodically, for reasons apart from sexual desire, much as rapists enjoy power, violence and controlling their humiliated victims. Indeed, research supports that a child molester isn't any more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual.

http://www.joekort.com/articles50.htm

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