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41 - 60 of 76 Comments Last updated Feb 18, 2013

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#43
Feb 13, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, here is a nice scholarly article summarize a good bit of comparative research: http://www.moappp.org/Documents/articles/2006... .
A piece of the evidence that must be figured in is the failure rate of those who pledge to remain abstinent. Like all other forms of pregnancy or disease prevention there is a human factor that must be accounted for. Condoms serve much better when used 100% of the time than when they are used sporadically. Likewise, the efficacy of the pill starts to fall off when the user forgets to take it frequently. And the reality is that many who pledge abstinence do not delay sex until marriage (heck--even George didn't wait). And the issue then becomes that those who slip up in their commitment but have little knowledge of some basics with regard to hygiene and responsibility are the ones who are MORE likely to end up with an STI or unintended pregnancy.
The fallacy in logic here is that you're skirting the emphasis in education issue. Drill something home well enough and even the dullest student in the classroom will figure something out that is this simple: KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO ASSUME X, Y, Z RISKS. There is little, to NO, idea of monogamy or commitment with sex any longer. I find that distasteful. Old fashioned? Perhaps. But it works.

Hell, do you think most of us were virgins when we married? No. Do you think there's a reason people like George, myself, Glitter, and others didn't raise kids alone or with a gaggle of baby mommies/baby daddies and none of us has an STD?(I prefer DISEASE vs. INFECTION. Why? Most ARE harmful these days beyond the point of embarassment of facing your doc. Hell, gonorrhea these days is antibiotic resistant, herpes is your lifelong friend once you contract, and HPV increases the risk for cervical cancer in women.)

We play with semantics too much here. Time to get "real" as they'd say in the hood...

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#44
Feb 13, 2013
 

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gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
The fallacy in logic here is that you're skirting the emphasis in education issue. Drill something home well enough and even the dullest student in the classroom will figure something out that is this simple: KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO ASSUME X, Y, Z RISKS. There is little, to NO, idea of monogamy or commitment with sex any longer. I find that distasteful. Old fashioned? Perhaps. But it works.
Hell, do you think most of us were virgins when we married? No. Do you think there's a reason people like George, myself, Glitter, and others didn't raise kids alone or with a gaggle of baby mommies/baby daddies and none of us has an STD?(I prefer DISEASE vs. INFECTION. Why? Most ARE harmful these days beyond the point of embarassment of facing your doc. Hell, gonorrhea these days is antibiotic resistant, herpes is your lifelong friend once you contract, and HPV increases the risk for cervical cancer in women.)
We play with semantics too much here. Time to get "real" as they'd say in the hood...
It didn't work well in the 50s and its not much better now. And that is what the data is showing us. And the whole issue of withholding information to try to force some moral norm that you believe in really starts to raise some ethical questions in addition to the practical ones.
Adif understanding

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#45
Feb 13, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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So--it shouldn't be so difficult to come up with a citation or two. Who are all these liberals who are opposed to the inclusion of abstinence in sex education?
FFS what part of that i have talked to do you not understand. Do you really think I walk around cataloging all my conversations so I can whip them out on your demand?

Why is it every time we converse I need to spend more time explaining to you what was said then it took to say it? Do you really bhave a learning disability or something?

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#46
Feb 13, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
It didn't work well in the 50s and its not much better now. And that is what the data is showing us. And the whole issue of withholding information to try to force some moral norm that you believe in really starts to raise some ethical questions in addition to the practical ones.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth, Reader.

I never said ANYTHING about WITHHOLDING information. Emphasis does not include withholding.

Now I fully understand the "Twister" comment.

And yes, I do believe it worked in the 50s as it still would work today. I never stated, nor would anyone state, there were 0 out of wedlock births in the 50s nor would anyone state there was no such thing as STDs in the 50s. If you want to manage and deter unwanted pregnancies and curb the rate of STDs, abstinence is clearly the intelligent method.

Do you honestly think handing a 15 YO a box of condoms is going to be more effective? "Here kid, here's a box of Trojans. Put the sock on and you're good to go." Condoms are not 100% effective, even when used consistently. They are still mechanical means.

The pill does not prevent STDs.

A kid raised in an environment where respect, monogamy, and intelligent discussions occur that emphasize and promote intelligent behavior will trump sex education any day. In my eye, that means the kid learns a lot of self-respect and quite a bit of self-restraint and good decision making instead of "hey, I can engage in riskier behavior because mom gave me a box of Trojans!"

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

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#47
Feb 13, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
It didn't work well in the 50s and its not much better now. And that is what the data is showing us. And the whole issue of withholding information to try to force some moral norm that you believe in really starts to raise some ethical questions in addition to the practical ones.
Translation:
"We hate morality and the teaching of it. We especially hate it when it comes from the Catholic Church. We really, really hate when blacks are singled out as being the irresponsible actors they are. And to that end, we're going to continue to destroy this nation one poor child at a time, simply because we hate you conservative, Christian Americans so much."

Hold your breath, Reader. The bluer you people get, the better this country gets.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#48
Feb 13, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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...the whole issue of withholding information to try to force some moral norm that you believe in really starts to raise some ethical questions in addition to the practical ones.
Take it up with Him.

Hebrews 13:4

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#49
Feb 13, 2013
 

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gokeefe wrote:
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Do you honestly think handing a 15 YO a box of condoms is going to be more effective? "Here kid, here's a box of Trojans. Put the sock on and you're good to go."
And you've got the nerve to call me "Twister"?

LOL!

Go look up the word "comprehensive."

“Hi-Yo Silver! Away!”

Since: Aug 12

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#50
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>I don't care what Texas law says. You aren't listening. You need a q tip or something? I said ever liberal I know and have talked to until this very thread does not want abstinence taught at all. Nothing at all, do you understand that? It has nothing to do with abstinence only or any state's implementation of it, it has to do with the entire concept of abstinence period.
Here's another liberal who thinks abstinence should be PART of sex ed.

Only teaching abstinence-only, as the bible thumpers want, doesn't reduce teen pregnancies nearly as much as a comprehensive program.

I agree with reader, don't know any responsible liberal who wants to kick abstinence out of sex ed.

Liberals aren't a monolith.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#51
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>Translation:
"We hate morality and the teaching of it. We especially hate it when it comes from the Catholic Church. We really, really hate when blacks are singled out as being the irresponsible actors they are. And to that end, we're going to continue to destroy this nation one poor child at a time, simply because we hate you conservative, Christian Americans so much."
Hold your breath, Reader. The bluer you people get, the better this country gets.
Nobody is doing anything at all to prevent you from teaching your kids morality as you see fit.

And I certainly never waited for a by your leave from anyone to ground my kids morally.

But, when it comes to public schools teaching something called "sex education" that is grounded in a belief that there is one single acceptable set of choices (which is the basis for the abstinence only curricula that were mandated by various federal regulations)--and eliminating any mention of other possibilities that exist legally and within the moral framework of many then not only are we crossing over into theocratic violations, but also engaging in intellectually dishonest and unethical behavior.

And when outcome data shows that this approach does not accomplish the desired outcomes in terms of delayed sexual activity, declines in risky behaviors and unintended pregnancy then to continue is simply foolish.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#52
Feb 13, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>Translation:
"We hate morality and the teaching of it. We especially hate it when it comes from the Catholic Church.
Is this an open admission of an attempt to hijack the public schools for proselytizing, or just more of your throwing yourself down in traffic in order to claim martyrdom?
Wait what

Dublin, OH

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#53
Feb 13, 2013
 

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gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting, considering only a generation or two, that WAS the bulk of "education". Sure, we got the mechanics, too. Just no condoms over cucumbers ala Jocelyn Elders. And in my generation, out of wedlock births were exponentially lower, too. As was the rate of STDs. And most STDs back then were easily treatable, if caught, via antibiotics.
I didn't read the rest, because you summed it up in the first paragraph. But honestly, when the main story of the news is about sexting - and not what's really going on in the world - Houston, we have a problem.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

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#54
Feb 14, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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Dunno anyone who claims it has no place.
It is abstinence only that has been shown to be profoundly ineffective.
Why do conservatives think that sex has no place in sex education?
because liberals are to stupid to raise a child, so they kill them.

“Hi-Yo Silver! Away!”

Since: Aug 12

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#55
Feb 14, 2013
 

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Reality Speaks wrote:
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because liberals are to stupid to raise a child, so they kill them.
That's absolutely the dumbest thing you've ever said. And untrue.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

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#56
Feb 15, 2013
 
Kemosahbe wrote:
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That's absolutely the dumbest thing you've ever said. And untrue.
is it?

would you like govt numbers to prove how wrong you are?
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#57
Feb 15, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>Translation:
"We hate morality and the teaching of it. We especially hate it when it comes from the Catholic Church. We really, really hate when blacks are singled out as being the irresponsible actors they are. And to that end, we're going to continue to destroy this nation one poor child at a time, simply because we hate you conservative, Christian Americans so much."
Hold your breath, Reader. The bluer you people get, the better this country gets.
You would think that after a 1000 years or so you guys would have lost your aversion to thought.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#58
Feb 15, 2013
 

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Reality Speaks wrote:
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is it?
would you like govt numbers to prove how wrong you are?
You mean the numbers from the last election where you relics of thousands of years old mysticism were trounced by the non reproducing liberals?
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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#59
Feb 15, 2013
 

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Kemosahbe wrote:
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That's absolutely the dumbest thing you've ever said. And untrue.
That one is pretty stupid, but amazingly, it isn't even in his top ten.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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#60
Feb 15, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Take it up with Him.
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Who?

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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#61
Feb 15, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>Translation:
"We hate morality and the teaching of it. We especially hate it when it comes from the Catholic Church. We really, really hate when blacks are singled out as being the irresponsible actors they are. And to that end, we're going to continue to destroy this nation one poor child at a time, simply because we hate you conservative, Christian Americans so much."
Hold your breath, Reader. The bluer you people get, the better this country gets.
Translation:

"I will continue to present the RCC as the most moral of victims, and the black race as an utter and complete cultural failure, collectively responsible for all of America's social and economic ills.

And to those who point out my hypocrisy and racism, I will simply double down, and blame them too."

woof

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#62
Feb 15, 2013
 
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
is it?
would you like govt numbers to prove how wrong you are?
Yes, please.

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