What Pope Francis really said about gays

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Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#1 Jul 30, 2013
What Pope Francis really said about gays -- and no, it's not new

By Fr. Jonathan Morris
Published July 29, 2013
FoxNews.com

Pope Francis doesn’t do interviews. Or at least that’s what we thought. He said that about himself just one week ago on the way to Rio de Janeiro for World Youth Day.

Then World Youth Day happened. And it happened in a big way.

According to official reports from City Hall, 3.2 million young people gathered on Copacabana Beach to see him, pray with him, and hear his proposal about the meaning of life.

The Bible and the Catholic Church have never taught that it is a “sin” to be homosexual.
His closing message to them was simple: Go back to your homes, and serve others without fear.

Hours later, perhaps taking to heart his own closing message about fearless service, Pope Francis offered an 80 minute, unscripted question-and-answer session with the international press corps.

But, unfortunately, if you were reading the headlines from some media outlets, you would have learned just one thing. As the Huffington Post put it:“Breakthrough: Pope OK with Gays.”

This is the worst coverage of a religious story I have seen to date.

Let’s begin with the fact that the pope has always been “OK” with homosexuals. In fact, by the demands of his own religion he is required to be much more than just “OK.” The Christian faith teaches that every person is endowed by God with an inviolable dignity and therefore deserves our unconditional respect and love.

A section of an Associated Press report also got the story very wrong. Summarizing the pope’s comments on homosexuals in the priesthood, the AP reported:“Francis was much more conciliatory [than Pope Benedict], saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.”

Pope Francis didn’t say that, and the report is wrong on so many levels.

First of all, it suggests that being gay itself, is a sin. What Pope Francis really said, in response to a reporter’s question about homosexual priests who are living a celibate life was this:“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

Pope Francis simply and compassionately reiterated Biblical teaching. The Bible and the Catholic Church have never taught that it is a “sin” to be homosexual. They teach it is a sin to have homosexual sex because it goes against the laws of God’s nature, specifically his plan for human sexuality.

When Pope Francis says “who am I to judge” he is saying—and I think we need to hear more of this from religious leaders—that active homosexuals deserve the same kindness, love, and mercy that all of us sinners would hope to receive from God and from others.

We don’t make judgments about anyone’s personal worth—God has already done that when he created us out of love.

I would hope next time Pope Francis offers to meet with the press, they would take to heart his message about fearless service and report to their readers what he actually said, rather than what they wish they had heard.

-Father Jonathan Morris is a Fox News contributor and program director of "The Catholic Channel"
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#2 Jul 30, 2013
Enzyte Bob wrote:
What Pope Francis really said about gays -- and no, it's not new
By Fr. Jonathan Morris
Published July 29, 2013
FoxNews.com
Pope Francis doesn’t do interviews. Or at least that’s what we thought. He said that about himself just one week ago on the way to Rio de Janeiro for World Youth Day.
Then World Youth Day happened. And it happened in a big way.
According to official reports from City Hall, 3.2 million young people gathered on Copacabana Beach to see him, pray with him, and hear his proposal about the meaning of life.
The Bible and the Catholic Church have never taught that it is a “sin” to be homosexual.
His closing message to them was simple: Go back to your homes, and serve others without fear.
Hours later, perhaps taking to heart his own closing message about fearless service, Pope Francis offered an 80 minute, unscripted question-and-answer session with the international press corps.
But, unfortunately, if you were reading the headlines from some media outlets, you would have learned just one thing. As the Huffington Post put it:“Breakthrough: Pope OK with Gays.”
This is the worst coverage of a religious story I have seen to date.
Let’s begin with the fact that the pope has always been “OK” with homosexuals. In fact, by the demands of his own religion he is required to be much more than just “OK.” The Christian faith teaches that every person is endowed by God with an inviolable dignity and therefore deserves our unconditional respect and love.
A section of an Associated Press report also got the story very wrong. Summarizing the pope’s comments on homosexuals in the priesthood, the AP reported:“Francis was much more conciliatory [than Pope Benedict], saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.”
Pope Francis didn’t say that, and the report is wrong on so many levels.
First of all, it suggests that being gay itself, is a sin. What Pope Francis really said, in response to a reporter’s question about homosexual priests who are living a celibate life was this:“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”
Pope Francis simply and compassionately reiterated Biblical teaching. The Bible and the Catholic Church have never taught that it is a “sin” to be homosexual. They teach it is a sin to have homosexual sex because it goes against the laws of God’s nature, specifically his plan for human sexuality.
When Pope Francis says “who am I to judge” he is saying—and I think we need to hear more of this from religious leaders—that active homosexuals deserve the same kindness, love, and mercy that all of us sinners would hope to receive from God and from others.
We don’t make judgments about anyone’s personal worth—God has already done that when he created us out of love.
I would hope next time Pope Francis offers to meet with the press, they would take to heart his message about fearless service and report to their readers what he actually said, rather than what they wish they had heard.
-Father Jonathan Morris is a Fox News contributor and program director of "The Catholic Channel"
It will be a good day when you self proclaimed "Christians" start to listen and conduct yourselves accordingly.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#3 Jul 30, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
It will be a good day when you self proclaimed "Christians" start to listen and conduct yourselves accordingly.
Except you forget that Christianity was the ultimate champion of human rights. The pagan world had many of the same problems you see today, 50 years after secularism became the state religion in the west. Christianity championed respect for oneself and as a better way to live. It was the answer that resonated with people whose lives were ruined because of the self-indulgent lifestyle paganism supported. Christianity took root because it was demonstrably the better way to live ... and it worked very well through about 1962.

The Roman Empire saw moral decline as a problem even before Christianity took root, passing a series of laws relating to marriage and adultery. They could see the ill-effects these behaviors were having on society back then.

==========

Moral legislation of Augustus[edit]

Under Augustus, the Leges Juliae of 18–17 BC attempted to elevate both the morals and the numbers of the upper classes in Rome and to increase the population by encouraging marriage and having children (lex Julia de maritandis ordinibus). They also established adultery as a private and public crime (lex Julia de adulteriis).

To encourage population expansion, the Leges Juliae offered inducements to marriage and imposed disabilities upon the celibate. Augustus instituted the "Law of the three sons" which held those in high regard who produced three male[citation needed] offspring. Marrying-age celibates and young widows who wouldn't marry were debarred from receiving inheritances and from attending public games.

Lex Iulia de Adulteriis Coercendis (17 BC): This law punished adultery with banishment.

Lex Papia Poppaea (9 AD):(to encourage and strengthen marriage) is usually seen as an integral part of Augustus' Julian Laws. The Lex Papia Poppaea also explicitly promoted offspring (within lawful marriage), thus also discriminating against celibacy.
Lex Iulia de vicesima hereditatum (5 AD):(on inheritance tax) instituted a 5 percent tax on testamentary inheritances, exempting close relatives.

Justinian (6th century)[edit]
Under the rule of Emperor Justinian

The Lex Julia on adultery
(Institutes 4, 18, 2-3) Public prosecutions are as follows....the Lex Julia for the suppression of adultery punishes with death not only those who dishonour the marriage bed of another but also those who indulge in unspeakable lust with males. The same Lex Julia also punishes the offence of seduction, when a person, without the use of force, deflowers a virgin or seduces a respectable widow. The penalty imposed by the statute on such offenders is the confiscation of half their estate if they are of respectable standing, corporal punishment and banishment in the case of people of the lower orders.

(Digest 4, 4, 37) But as regards the provisions of the Lex Julia....a man who confesses that he has committed the offence [i.e. adultery] has no right to ask for a remission of the penalty on the ground that he was under age; nor, as I have said, will any remission be allowed if he commits any of those offences which the statute punishes in the same way as adultery; as, for example, if he marries a woman who is detected in adultery and he declines to divorce her, or where he makes a profit from her adultery, or accepts a bribe to conceal illicit intercourse which he detects, or lends his house for the commission of adultery or illicit intercourse within it; youth, as I said, is no excuse in the face of clear enactments, when a man who, though he appeals to the law, himself transgresses it.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#4 Jul 30, 2013
http://www.underground-history.com/history_of...

6. The spread of Christianity in the Roman empire is explosive. Paul brought the message of Christianity to the Gentiles and many of them readily accepted the message of Christ. The message of Christianity was going everywhere in the Roman Empire. His letters to these new churches become the first Christian Scriptures and later are joined together with the Gospels to form the New Testament.

At Antioch the believers are first called Christians. Paul tells the Gentiles that they do not have to first become Jews in order to believe in Christ. They can simply believe as Gentiles and they will be saved by Christ. This message to the Gentiles comes under attack by Jewish Christians in Palestine. Paul is accused of misrepresenting the Gospel. In Jerusalem, Paul defends his message and in the process certain Jews determine to take his life. He is placed in jail for his own protection, but languishes there for five years. He eventually appeals to _________for a hearing of his case. As a Roman citizen that is his privilege. So to Rome he is sent.

7. In 60 A.D. Paul arrived in Rome. Peter also came to Rome to preach the Gospel. By this time the Romans were beginning to become aware of the Christians and they did not like what they saw. The Romans accused the Christians of being atheists. They would not come to the feasts honoring the gods. They did not participate in public festivals and avoided other Roman practices. The Romans called them “haters of the human race.” There were also vicious rumors that Christians practiced cannibalism (drinking the blood and body of Christ), eating babies and incest (the “holy kiss”). There were a few practices that even the Romans could not stomach.

The Christians condemned and rejected Roman practices that were widespread; abortion, infanticide, abandoning infants, suicide, sexual promiscuity, homosexual sex and the degradation of women and gladiatorial contests.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#5 Jul 30, 2013
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Except you forget that Christianity was the ultimate champion of human rights. The pagan world had many of the same problems you see today, 50 years after secularism became the state religion in the west. Christianity championed respect for oneself and as a better way to live. It was the answer that resonated with people whose lives were ruined because of the self-indulgent lifestyle paganism supported. Christianity took root because it was demonstrably the better way to live ... and it worked very well through about 1962.
The Roman Empire saw moral decline as a problem even before Christianity took root, passing a series of laws relating to marriage and adultery. They could see the ill-effects these behaviors were having on society back then.
==========
Moral legislation of Augustus[edit]
Under Augustus, the Leges Juliae of 18–17 BC attempted to elevate both the morals and the numbers of the upper classes in Rome and to increase the population by encouraging marriage and having children (lex Julia de maritandis ordinibus). They also established adultery as a private and public crime (lex Julia de adulteriis).
To encourage population expansion, the Leges Juliae offered inducements to marriage and imposed disabilities upon the celibate. Augustus instituted the "Law of the three sons" which held those in high regard who produced three male[citation needed] offspring. Marrying-age celibates and young widows who wouldn't marry were debarred from receiving inheritances and from attending public games.
Lex Iulia de Adulteriis Coercendis (17 BC): This law punished adultery with banishment.
Lex Papia Poppaea (9 AD):(to encourage and strengthen marriage) is usually seen as an integral part of Augustus' Julian Laws. The Lex Papia Poppaea also explicitly promoted offspring (within lawful marriage), thus also discriminating against celibacy.
Lex Iulia de vicesima hereditatum (5 AD):(on inheritance tax) instituted a 5 percent tax on testamentary inheritances, exempting close relatives.
Justinian (6th century)[edit]
Under the rule of Emperor Justinian
The Lex Julia on adultery
(Institutes 4, 18, 2-3) Public prosecutions are as follows....the Lex Julia for the suppression of adultery punishes with death not only those who dishonour the marriage bed of another but also those who indulge in unspeakable lust with males. The same Lex Julia also punishes the offence of seduction, when a person, without the use of force, deflowers a virgin or seduces a respectable widow. The penalty imposed by the statute on such offenders is the confiscation of half their estate if they are of respectable standing, corporal punishment and banishment in the case of people of the lower orders.
(Digest 4, 4, 37) But as regards the provisions of the Lex Julia....a man who confesses that he has committed the offence [i.e. adultery] has no right to ask for a remission of the penalty on the ground that he was under age; nor, as I have said, will any remission be allowed if he commits any of those offences which the statute punishes in the same way as adultery; as, for example, if he marries a woman who is detected in adultery and he declines to divorce her, or where he makes a profit from her adultery, or accepts a bribe to conceal illicit intercourse which he detects, or lends his house for the commission of adultery or illicit intercourse within it; youth, as I said, is no excuse in the face of clear enactments, when a man who, though he appeals to the law, himself transgresses it.
I think the point is that all people "deserve the same kindness, love, and mercy that all of us sinners would hope to receive from God and from others." That is what you have forgotten.

“Where did I put my tiara?”

Since: Dec 11

Columbus, OH

#6 Jul 30, 2013
You know I'm not Catholic, but if he wants to move the church forward and add money to the coffers...ya gotta reach out and be accepting to all.

The politics of religion. Sigh
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#7 Jul 30, 2013
GlitterSucks wrote:
You know I'm not Catholic, but if he wants to move the church forward and add money to the coffers...ya gotta reach out and be accepting to all.
The politics of religion. Sigh
The almighty dollar is more almighty than God, to some. That's the way she rolls over there. Always has, always will.

woof
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#8 Jul 30, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
The almighty dollar is more almighty than God, to some. That's the way she rolls over there. Always has, always will.
woof
Nice try, but not completely accurate. Most mainline churches run on shoestring budgets. If and when there is a nice building, that is created through the efforts of parishioners who devote time, effort and write checks on behalf of their parishes for any number of reasons.

Nondenominational churches are a different animal, but most pastors seem to want to believe they should be accountable to their congregations. There can be abuses in those institutions, but most of those guys try to get things done the right way.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#9 Jul 30, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the point is that all people "deserve the same kindness, love, and mercy that all of us sinners would hope to receive from God and from others." That is what you have forgotten.
If you read the article, it states that the person is never condemned, it is only the lifestyle that is.

“Where did I put my tiara?”

Since: Dec 11

Columbus, OH

#10 Jul 30, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
The almighty dollar is more almighty than God, to some. That's the way she rolls over there. Always has, always will.
woof
I don't agree with you often, but concur. The fakery that occurs during organized religion makes me sick. I always think, what did you do on a Tuesday for someone?
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#11 Jul 30, 2013
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
If you read the article, it states that the person is never condemned, it is only the lifestyle that is.
Right. It will be a great day when you listen to the sentiments contained in the article you thought was relevant enough to post on a Topix forum.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#12 Jul 30, 2013
GlitterSucks wrote:
<quoted text>I don't agree with you often, but concur. The fakery that occurs during organized religion makes me sick. I always think, what did you do on a Tuesday for someone?
That attitude is on display here daily, Sunday mornings excluded, thanks to the writings of the most effusive and hatefully bigoted posters on this board.

Isn't it Paco?

woof

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#13 Jul 30, 2013
GlitterSucks wrote:
<quoted text>I don't agree with you often, but concur. The fakery that occurs during organized religion makes me sick. I always think, what did you do on a Tuesday for someone?
Many of us do a lot for our communities and others throughout the week.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#14 Jul 30, 2013
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
If you read the article, it states that the person is never condemned, it is only the lifestyle that is.
But that's not what you see displayed here by a lot of that religion's adherents. Not even close.

They seem not to listen very closely.

woof

“Where did I put my tiara?”

Since: Dec 11

Columbus, OH

#15 Jul 30, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Many of us do a lot for our communities and others throughout the week.
Me included. There isn't a neighbor that does not know that can knock on my door and ask for a cup of milk, babysitting, medical question, HVAC help, etc. I learned at a young age to be skeptical of those that feel "holy" because they put $5.00 in the offering plate.

Not judging those that serve seven days a week and attend church, just saying hypocrisy reigns.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16 Jul 30, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Many of us do a lot for our communities and others throughout the week.
What effort have you made to live your life according to the sentiments expressed in the article EBob posted?

Since: Jun 13

Hilliard, OH

#17 Jul 30, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
But that's not what you see displayed here by a lot of that religion's adherents. Not even close.
They seem not to listen very closely.
woof
The gays who are condemned here tend to earn it by their other attitudes and actions. An unusually high proportion of gays happen to be flaming leftist a-holes.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#18 Jul 30, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
What effort have you made to live your life according to the sentiments expressed in the article EBob posted?
Proverbs 17:21

He who sires a fool gets himself sorrow,
And the father of a fool has no joy.

Poor Duke.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#19 Jul 30, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Proverbs 17:21
He who sires a fool gets himself sorrow,
And the father of a fool has no joy.
Poor Duke.
Your poor Poppy must be drunk 24/7.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#20 Jul 30, 2013
Diamond Eugene wrote:
<quoted text>The gays who are condemned here tend to earn it by their other attitudes and actions. An unusually high proportion of gays happen to be flaming leftist a-holes.
Who are you to judge? Oh yes...Topix most prolific bigot, I forgot.

woof

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