War on Christmas

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#127 Dec 4, 2012
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me what the other Gods and their civilizations created? Great architecture? Great art? Great music? Technological innovation? An abundance of food and medical technology? Agriculture so efficient that we could feed the entire world if we wanted to? Great nations and the spread of language and culture throughout the world? Human rights, and the right to pursue your dreams?
What did those other peoples and their "Gods" create other than oppressive regimes, corrupt governments, control of their rabble and poverty?
You people don't appreciate what you have in this country. You need to live in Venezuela for a few years before you start clamoring for their style of government here.
I believe that the Buddhists lay claim to the concept of zero--something that mathematicians consider pretty fundamental.

And who were those folks who built Stonehenge? I don't know exactly what they were on to, but I have always understood it to be pretty important.

Likewise the Aztecs. When I was in Mexico I remember going inside of a pyramid which had been constructed around a peephole of sorts that ran from the bottom to the top and captured a pure beam of light during some recurrent solar event that only happens once in a hundred years or so. I don't know what all that's about, but I was pretty impressed.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#128 Dec 4, 2012
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me what the other Gods and their civilizations created? Great architecture? Great art? Great music? Technological innovation? An abundance of food and medical technology? Agriculture so efficient that we could feed the entire world if we wanted to? Great nations and the spread of language and culture throughout the world? Human rights, and the right to pursue your dreams?
What did those other peoples and their "Gods" create other than oppressive regimes, corrupt governments, control of their rabble and poverty?
You people don't appreciate what you have in this country. You need to live in Venezuela for a few years before you start clamoring for their style of government here.
BTW--if you want to link a religion to agriculture (beyond the Native Americans who apparently knew a bit as well), I have always understood that Israel is pretty advanced at irrigation and such.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#129 Dec 4, 2012
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
But you don't, and your posts have stated as such. Whether it's a fundamentalist Christian group or whether it's Catholics against paying for birth control, you rally against it. And if you TRULY believed in religion for all, you would respect a Catholic decision to not pay for birth control - which goes against their religion.
I really don't care how you think because I don't know you, but your repeated hypocrisy drives me up the wall - and yes, I am especially hissed off about your crude Native American joke. Had I done the same against black folk, how would you feel?
WW, if you don't mind me saying so, you have been particularly hissed off ever since I first encountered you.

But--to your central point, in a society that supports freedom of worship and belief, there will always been some conflict regarding where the lines are drawn between your practice and your imposing your practice on me.

In the particular instance of health care policy I am very comfortable with drawing the line at the church door, using the criteria of "primary purpose" with consideration of whether all hirees must be adherents of the religion. Asking a specific exclusion from the provision of required services for institutions only tangentially related to the religion and for which there is no requirement that employees be members of that religion does strike me as moving beyond a conscience protection to an interference in the rights of others.

You disagree.

Sorry.

But, particularly given your repeated ducking of any questions that I ask about your own religious preferences, I do think it owes more to being hissed off at me in general that any statement of personal conscience.
Enzyte Bob

Columbus, OH

#130 Dec 4, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW--if you want to link a religion to agriculture (beyond the Native Americans who apparently knew a bit as well), I have always understood that Israel is pretty advanced at irrigation and such.
LMAO - Yeah, the native American savages are great at farming. That's why they invented all the farming equipment, the productive seedlings, the pesticides, the advanced storage and transportation that give us the abundance of food we have today.

Those people have NOTHING because their cultures are pretty worthless. Likewise when you compare Spanish and southern European culture to Anglo-Saxon culture. Mexicans and Latin Americans don't have squat because they don't have the cultural and the legal framework for having anything. A system of laws to keep control of European peasants was imposed on sub-peasant savages. That's why you still have poor nations full of peasants.

Anglo-Saxon culture respects property, thrift and productivity. That's why they create, and the rest don't have squat and covet.
Enzyte Bob

Columbus, OH

#131 Dec 4, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to have missed the point, rather sparklingly.
For the purpose of creating effective public policy on this issue, individuals making claims that their god is the true god is irrelevant. Everyone thinks this about their own faith.
Your adding reasons that you think your god is the true god are equally irrelevant. Why you think your belief system is the sole true faith doesn't matter in this debate. Susie down the street, the guy next door and every other person out there with a personal faith can offer the same claims about their faith.
My belief system built this nation into the most prosperous, wealthy and technologically advanced system in the history of mankind. The other "Gods" are the Gods of savage races. Can you point to any of their accomplishments that would render their Gods and their mud-eating lifestyles superior?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#132 Dec 4, 2012
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO - Yeah, the native American savages are great at farming. That's why they invented all the farming equipment, the productive seedlings, the pesticides, the advanced storage and transportation that give us the abundance of food we have today.
Those people have NOTHING because their cultures are pretty worthless. Likewise when you compare Spanish and southern European culture to Anglo-Saxon culture. Mexicans and Latin Americans don't have squat because they don't have the cultural and the legal framework for having anything. A system of laws to keep control of European peasants was imposed on sub-peasant savages. That's why you still have poor nations full of peasants.
Anglo-Saxon culture respects property, thrift and productivity. That's why they create, and the rest don't have squat and covet.
Well, Bobby, not only does the story go that it was Native Americans who taught the Pilgrims enough about farming (putting a dead fish in the hole with the corn kernal, don'tcha know), but on thing that they managed that we have trouble with is having some basic ecological respect for the ability of the earth to replenish. They weren't the one's who wiped out the Buffalo, you know.

But, all that new-fangled farm equipment, coupled with our yearning for property, as well as transportation (enabling weekend farmers) pretty much set up the dustbowl for near ruin during the drought. Ever see The Plow that Broke the Plains? Roosevelt's WPA ensured the survival of a bunch of dust bowl families. But, it was the widespread application of improved farming methods that brought the land back.

So, yeah. We were able to fix it. But we were also the ones who broke it.
Enzyte Bob

Columbus, OH

#133 Dec 4, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Bobby, not only does the story go that it was Native Americans who taught the Pilgrims enough about farming (putting a dead fish in the hole with the corn kernal, don'tcha know), but on thing that they managed that we have trouble with is having some basic ecological respect for the ability of the earth to replenish. They weren't the one's who wiped out the Buffalo, you know.
And they would still be eating that way and I would be working in an apple orchard in SE Europe if the Pilgrims had your mentality and decided to adopt the way of the savages! In other words, this place would still be third world, just like every other place where savages rule.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#134 Dec 4, 2012
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
And they would still be eating that way and I would be working in an apple orchard in SE Europe if the Pilgrims had your mentality and decided to adopt the way of the savages! In other words, this place would still be third world, just like every other place where savages rule.
You got the flu or something Bob? You are starting to sound a little stir crazy. Hatin' on everybody just lately.

Hugh Victor Thompson III

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

#136 Dec 4, 2012
Bill Hates wrote:
Oh, not this crap again!
These "christians" committed genocide on the people that lived here first, and want to kill the poor by starvation and lack of health care.
You sound like you swallowed Al Sharpton.
Enzyte Bob

Columbus, OH

#137 Dec 4, 2012
Bill Hates wrote:
Oh, not this crap again!
These "christians" committed genocide on the people that lived here first, and want to kill the poor by starvation and lack of health care.
And those savages still live as savages all throughout Mexico, Latin America and whereever else they inhabit. If those savages had any redeeming qualities, Latin America should be the pinnacle of civilization should it not? Just another bunch of jealous, lazy, unproductive people that want to eff all day, live like savages and then want to steal the nicer things in life whitey actually has to work for.
Enzyte Bob

Columbus, OH

#138 Dec 4, 2012
Bill Hates wrote:
Oh, not this crap again!
These "christians" committed genocide on the people that lived here first, and want to kill the poor by starvation and lack of health care.
Go back to Africa, baboon, and see how much health care they give you!
Big Johnson

Columbus, OH

#139 Dec 4, 2012
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
And those savages still live as savages all throughout Mexico, Latin America and whereever else they inhabit. If those savages had any redeeming qualities, Latin America should be the pinnacle of civilization should it not? Just another bunch of jealous, lazy, unproductive people that want to eff all day, live like savages and then want to steal the nicer things in life whitey actually has to work for.
You used to like Mexicans. What happened?
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#140 Dec 4, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
WW, if you don't mind me saying so, you have been particularly hissed off ever since I first encountered you.
But--to your central point, in a society that supports freedom of worship and belief, there will always been some conflict regarding where the lines are drawn between your practice and your imposing your practice on me.
In the particular instance of health care policy I am very comfortable with drawing the line at the church door, using the criteria of "primary purpose" with consideration of whether all hirees must be adherents of the religion. Asking a specific exclusion from the provision of required services for institutions only tangentially related to the religion and for which there is no requirement that employees be members of that religion does strike me as moving beyond a conscience protection to an interference in the rights of others.
You disagree.
Sorry.
But, particularly given your repeated ducking of any questions that I ask about your own religious preferences, I do think it owes more to being hissed off at me in general that any statement of personal conscience.
Ah, Reader, you see - I don't discuss my religious preferences with anyone because, unlike you, I believe in everyone's right to interpret as they believe. Unlike you, I do not cherry pick Bible verses and throw them back and forth in a conversation to prove that MY way is the superior way. I have some very strong beliefs and I have them for a reason; however, it really isn't your business what they might be. As I have stated numerous times, it's your hypocrisy that gets me - and gets others as well, as they often point out the same to you.

No one is interfering with anyone's right to protection. The Catholic church asked not to pay for it. It's a pretty simple concept. Damn shame women are more concerned with free birth control than the fact you can now disappear under the NDAA that Obama signed, isn't it?

You have accused most who post here on a regular basis of going after you in some form or fashion. I guess I find myself in good company!
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#141 Dec 4, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
WW, if you don't mind me saying so, you have been particularly hissed off ever since I first encountered you.
But--to your central point, in a society that supports freedom of worship and belief, there will always been some conflict regarding where the lines are drawn between your practice and your imposing your practice on me.
In the particular instance of health care policy I am very comfortable with drawing the line at the church door, using the criteria of "primary purpose" with consideration of whether all hirees must be adherents of the religion. Asking a specific exclusion from the provision of required services for institutions only tangentially related to the religion and for which there is no requirement that employees be members of that religion does strike me as moving beyond a conscience protection to an interference in the rights of others.
You disagree.
Sorry.
But, particularly given your repeated ducking of any questions that I ask about your own religious preferences, I do think it owes more to being hissed off at me in general that any statement of personal conscience.
Hey, you didn't answer my question. You posted a crude joke about Native Americans - which affected me personally. I asked you how you would feel if I said the same about black folks. No answer. Instead, you play the victim. Own up to what you write, why don't you?
Enzyte Bob

Powell, OH

#142 Dec 5, 2012
Big Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>
You used to like Mexicans. What happened?
My love or hate for any group depends on my mood at the moment and the topic.

Except the Jews. I'm pretty consistently negative when it comes to them.(joke)

This is pretty much my attitude toward life:

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#143 Dec 5, 2012
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, Reader, you see - I don't discuss my religious preferences with anyone because, unlike you, I believe in everyone's right to interpret as they believe. Unlike you, I do not cherry pick Bible verses and throw them back and forth in a conversation to prove that MY way is the superior way. I have some very strong beliefs and I have them for a reason; however, it really isn't your business what they might be. As I have stated numerous times, it's your hypocrisy that gets me - and gets others as well, as they often point out the same to you.
No one is interfering with anyone's right to protection. The Catholic church asked not to pay for it. It's a pretty simple concept. Damn shame women are more concerned with free birth control than the fact you can now disappear under the NDAA that Obama signed, isn't it?
You have accused most who post here on a regular basis of going after you in some form or fashion. I guess I find myself in good company!
I ask about your religious beliefs because you have so often scorned mine. Seems normal to ask and see if we have any common ground.

Some people who post here attack and others do not.

And it has little to do with agreement or specific views. It has to do with defending or exploring views as opposed to falling back on personal (ad hominem) attacks.

Like I said, you and I disagree about where exactly the line is drawn between following a religious belief and forcing that belief in some way on another. Rather than acknowledge that particular area of disagreement, you call me a hypocrite and accuse me of bashing Catholics (I know, that is not your particular terminology).

Yes, I quote scripture. It seems to be an appropriate basis for discussion when people are claiming that the Church, or God, or Jesus or Christianity demands some particular behavior or belief. And others quote right back.

Frankly, WW, I have been trying to ignore you lately, because we don't seem to be going anywhere in terms of common understanding. I have been trying to steer clear of responding to your posts, not even putting icons on them. And yet, you do seem to want conversation with me, because you keep responding to things that I write, making certain that everyone around knows that you believe that my stupid joke was not only stupid but also highly offensive and immoral and reiterating what a hypocrite you believe that I am.

So, let me just ask you directly--what do you want from me?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#144 Dec 5, 2012
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, you didn't answer my question. You posted a crude joke about Native Americans - which affected me personally. I asked you how you would feel if I said the same about black folks. No answer. Instead, you play the victim. Own up to what you write, why don't you?
It was a stupid joke.

I encountered it in the movie Silkwood, where it served a dramatic purpose as an employee sought to diffuse a tense situation.

You can take a look at it here:
.

I am not going to defend the joke, it is a stupid joke. And in fact, that was my first response to you. I don't quite see how that is playing the victim.

Nobody made me put it there. I put it there myself.

It is a stupid joke.
Tim

Akron, OH

#145 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Bobby, not only does the story go that it was Native Americans who taught the Pilgrims enough about farming (putting a dead fish in the hole with the corn kernal, don'tcha know), but on thing that they managed that we have trouble with is having some basic ecological respect for the ability of the earth to replenish. They weren't the one's who wiped out the Buffalo, you know.
But, all that new-fangled farm equipment, coupled with our yearning for property, as well as transportation (enabling weekend farmers) pretty much set up the dustbowl for near ruin during the drought. Ever see The Plow that Broke the Plains? Roosevelt's WPA ensured the survival of a bunch of dust bowl families. But, it was the widespread application of improved farming methods that brought the land back.
So, yeah. We were able to fix it. But we were also the ones who broke it.
The natives didn't wipe out the buffalo because they didn't have horses and guns.

Previously they killed buffalo by stampeding them off a cliff, I doubt that was a sustainable practice.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#146 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a stupid joke.
I encountered it in the movie Silkwood, where it served a dramatic purpose as an employee sought to diffuse a tense situation.
You can take a look at it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =yD6XIo1B5LcXX.
I am not going to defend the joke, it is a stupid joke. And in fact, that was my first response to you. I don't quite see how that is playing the victim.
Nobody made me put it there. I put it there myself.
It is a stupid joke.
I believe WW is waiting for you to admit it is a RACIST joke.
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#147 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I ask about your religious beliefs because you have so often scorned mine. Seems normal to ask and see if we have any common ground.
Some people who post here attack and others do not.
And it has little to do with agreement or specific views. It has to do with defending or exploring views as opposed to falling back on personal (ad hominem) attacks.
Like I said, you and I disagree about where exactly the line is drawn between following a religious belief and forcing that belief in some way on another. Rather than acknowledge that particular area of disagreement, you call me a hypocrite and accuse me of bashing Catholics (I know, that is not your particular terminology).
Yes, I quote scripture. It seems to be an appropriate basis for discussion when people are claiming that the Church, or God, or Jesus or Christianity demands some particular behavior or belief. And others quote right back.
Frankly, WW, I have been trying to ignore you lately, because we don't seem to be going anywhere in terms of common understanding. I have been trying to steer clear of responding to your posts, not even putting icons on them. And yet, you do seem to want conversation with me, because you keep responding to things that I write, making certain that everyone around knows that you believe that my stupid joke was not only stupid but also highly offensive and immoral and reiterating what a hypocrite you believe that I am.
So, let me just ask you directly--what do you want from me?
An admission that you are just as prejudiced as those you chastise here on the forum. BTW, I never said stupid - I said crude. Big difference.

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