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Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#1
May 2, 2013
 

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In the aftermath of the Boston bombings, many are asking how someone who came to America at the age of 9, attended some of our best schools, captained the wrestling team, went to the prom and became a citizen could have inflicted such a devastating attack on our society. The emerging evidence suggests that part of the answer is that no one in the past decade taught Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to love America, or at least did a very poor job of it.

But we know one thing for sure: He wasn't taught that assimilation into American society was desirable. As I'm finding while researching a book on Hispanics — indeed, what I experienced as a young Cuban coming to this country in the early 1970s — we no longer teach patriotic assimilation. By that I mean love of country, not just its creature comforts.

We teach the opposite, in fact — that we're all groups living cheek by jowl with one another, all with different advantages and legal class protection statuses, but not really all part of the same national fabric. In other words, we teach multiculturalism and diversity, and are officially making assimilation very hard to achieve.

If Dzhokhar and his brother Tamarlan are guilty of the acts of terrorism they are accused of because they succumbed to Islamist radicalism, then they are monsters who are personally responsible for turning against the land that welcomed them. Tamarlan has paid with his life, and Dzhokhar will be dealt judgment.

But as we grapple now with the thorny question of immigration, how to handle the millions of people who started to arrive at mid-century in a massive immigration wave, we could do worse than look at the affairs in Boston for a clue on whether our current approach works.

First let's look at the brothers Tsarnaev. For a hint on their motivation we have no less an authority than their uncle Ruslan. Asked why his nephews had bombed the Boston Marathon, he replied with the now famous line, "Being losers, hatred to those who were able to settle themselves; these are the only reasons I can imagine of."

In other words, failure to assimilate provided the fertile ground that allowed the bad seed of radical Islamism to take root. Ruslan's reply resonates especially because it contrasts so greatly with his own view. Here's what he said he teaches his own children: "This is the ideal micro-world in the entire world. I respect this country. I love this country. This country — which gives chance to everybody else to be treated as a human being."

Then we have tweets that 19-year-old Dzhokhar, now clinging to life after a shootout with Watertown, Mass., police, has sent over the last few months. Two in particular display a disdain for the country that gave him refuge, sent him to the prestigious Cambridge Rindge and Latin Academy and gave him a scholarship to attend the University of Massachusetts.

On Nov. 6, the night of the elections,@J—Tsar tweeted out "america is impervious to the fxxkery #justforthisoneday. On March 14, 2012, Dzhokhar averred, "a decade in america already, i want out."

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#2
May 2, 2013
 
As we can see, Dzhokhar had mastered the lingo of an American, but not the patriotism that once went along with it. As Peggy Noonan said in a prescient column in 2006:

"We are not assimilating our immigrants patriotically now. We are assimilating them culturally. Within a generation their children speak Valley Girl on cell phones.'So I'm like no,' and he's all 'yeah,' and I'm like,'In your dreams.' "Whether their parents are from Trinidad, Bosnia, Lebanon or Chile, their children, once Americans, know the same music, the same references, watch the same shows. And to a degree and in a way it will hold them together. But not forever and not in a crunch."

What's even worse is that this state of affairs is the result of decision we made. We didn't just get lazy and stopped teaching immigrants (and natives) to love America; we decided to stop and made assimilation a dirty word that connoted coercion and loss of ancestral culture. This despite all the evidence that assimilation, as preached and practiced since the nation's founding, was not coercive nor did it demand an end to St. Patrick's Day parades or love of Italian cooking.

In a retrospectively timely paper this month, the Hudson Institute reviewed evidence from a Harris Interactive Survey that showed that a large patriotic gap exists between naturalized Americans and native born. On such questions as to which should be the highest legal authority in the land, the Constitution or international law, or whether they considered themselves Americans or "citizens of the world", native Americans saying the Constitution and U.S. citizen led naturalized Americans by more than 30 points.

"Why is there this large patriotic gap between native-born and naturalized citizens?" asked the Hudson researchers. "American leaders have essentially altered our de-facto assimilation policy from Americanization (or patriotic integration) to a multiculturalism that emphasizes ethnic group consciousness at the expense of American common culture. In short, we have sent immigrants the wrong message on assimilation."

It wasn't always so. We debated assimilation vs. multiculturalism in the 1910s, and chose the former. The Greatest Generation that ensued met Noonan's "crunch test."

Over the past few days, many people pondering the question of how the Tsarnaevs could have acted the way they did have discounted that lack of assimilation could be the case, emphasizing that the brothers Tsarnaev lived in Cambridge, "one of the most diverse and inclusive places in America."

The problem is indeed with an "inclusive" approach that considers it wrong to teach love of a country so generous that it takes in two foreigners from a far-away land, gives them refuge, welcomes them in and gives them a free education. To have done so might have precluded the radical brain washing that led to the bombing.

Read more: Gonzalez: Wrong message on assimilation - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_23149817...
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

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May 2, 2013
 

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-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
In the aftermath of the Boston bombings, many are asking how someone who came to America at the age of 9, attended some of our best schools, captained the wrestling team, went to the prom and became a citizen could have inflicted such a devastating attack on our society. The emerging evidence suggests that part of the answer is that no one in the past decade taught Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to love America, or at least did a very poor job of it.
I am in my late 40's, I was born here and I still haven't completely assimilated. Nor do I want to. That is a fact of immigration whether people like it or not.

People come here for the money and the economic opportunity. They don't and most never will buy into WASP/Secular Jewish culture. I certainly don't.

That doesn't mean I want to set bombs of in public places ... well, maybe at all the Secular Jewish ACLU Offices (Note to FBI: Joke),
FBI

Blacklick, OH

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May 2, 2013
 

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Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I am in my late 40's, I was born here and I still haven't completely assimilated. Nor do I want to. That is a fact of immigration whether people like it or not.
People come here for the money and the economic opportunity. They don't and most never will buy into WASP/Secular Jewish culture. I certainly don't.
That doesn't mean I want to set bombs of in public places ... well, maybe at all the Secular Jewish ACLU Offices (Note to FBI: Joke),
Noted: Enzyte Bob is a joke.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#5
May 2, 2013
 

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FBI wrote:
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Noted: Enzyte Bob is a joke.
Not as much as you people are when it comes to preventing terrorism, Mr. Hoover.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

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May 2, 2013
 

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FBI wrote:
<quoted text>
Noted: Enzyte Bob is a joke.
Watch out Fake Johnson. Karl, the champion of gun rights and free speech, might report you to the moderators for impersonating a federal agent.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#7
May 2, 2013
 
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Watch out Fake Johnson. Karl, the champion of gun rights and free speech, might report you to the moderators for impersonating a federal agent.
You should be directing your ire at Kosmik.
Big Johnson

Blacklick, OH

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May 2, 2013
 

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Enzyte Bob wrote:
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Watch out Fake Johnson. Karl, the champion of gun rights and free speech, might report you to the moderators for impersonating a federal agent.
The johnson is very real and very big.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

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May 2, 2013
 

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-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>You should be directing your ire at Kosmik.
Him, too.

As you know, I don't really care. In fact, I take glee because I get the chance to get in people's faces after getting banned (as everybody knows).

It is, however, the principle of the thing. The only thing that is off-limits, as far as I'm concerned, is posting personal information, stalking or making personal threats. Otherwise, people should be grown up enough to live and let live.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#10
May 2, 2013
 
Enzyte Bob wrote:
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The only thing that is off-limits, as far as I'm concerned, is posting personal information, stalking or making personal threats.
Thank you.
Big Johnson

Blacklick, OH

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#11
May 2, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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Thank you.
You're gullible.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#12
May 2, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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Thank you.
Finally finished with the pizza, Reader?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#13
May 2, 2013
 
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I am in my late 40's, I was born here and I still haven't completely assimilated. Nor do I want to. That is a fact of immigration whether people like it or not.
People come here for the money and the economic opportunity. They don't and most never will buy into WASP/Secular Jewish culture. I certainly don't.
That doesn't mean I want to set bombs of in public places ... well, maybe at all the Secular Jewish ACLU Offices (Note to FBI: Joke),
Very difficult to have this sort of discussion without some common definition of terms.

By the definition of the article's author, it would seem as though assimilation is defined by patriotism, which is defined in a way that would exclude Karl and a bunch of other folks from being fully "assimilated."

Compounding the problem the author throws around the undefined term "multi-culturalism" as seemingly in opposition to assimilation/patriorism.

In many of our discussions these terms either become heavily value-laden, or frequently take on variable meanings for different people. It is like trying to have a discussion of racism in which the word means individual bigotry to some and the construction of racially-based power-structures to others. And in some cases I believe that there are deliberate attempts to make the words meaningless through over and inappropriate use (Obama is a racist, liberals are racist, anyone who notices or mentions race is a racist, etc).

I am certain that as we try to figure out how two American resident/citizens could manage to set off bombs at the Boston Marathon, with a plan to go on to times square, it will be tempting to grab onto lots of simple explanations. Ann Coulter has already announced that we should simply stop receiving immigrants--from anywhere. Her rational--they cannot "make it" here and just end up hating "us."

This kind of thinking makes the obvious error of overlooking the many immigrants who do "make it" here, with many making outstanding contributions in various fields.

I believe that more fruitful examination will look at what kinds of factors lead to extremist thought and radicalism--and particularly with a willingness to act. Perhaps the key element separating Karl from the Boston bombers is neither religion nor country of origin, but simple life-stage. Those who have racked up an investment here--a family, a house and other possessions--are more likely to talk a big game but stay behind the computer screen. Young males of a certain age are noted for their inability to conceive of dire consequences to actions, nor to believe very seriously in the possibility of their own demise.

And IF we can understand how this can happen HERE, we may begin to understand how and why such radicalism can take root in other countries.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

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#14
May 2, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Very difficult to have this sort of discussion without some common definition of terms.
By the definition of the article's author, it would seem as though assimilation is defined by patriotism, which is defined in a way that would exclude Karl and a bunch of other folks from being fully "assimilated."
That is actually a good point, Reader. I am NEVER going to be completely culturally assimilated with the rest of this country, nor do I want to be. I estimate I am only 50% culturally assimilated (from 20% in my younger years). I value my religious background too much to go any further in that direction.

However, politically and from the standpoint of national loyalty, I am 100% flag-waving American. Most immigrants I know are as well.

I remember back in the 1970's there was a lot of discussion around the dinner table with my mostly Republican-minded aunts and uncles about how much America sucked and how they would rather be back home. Like the Tsarnaevs, they were somebodies back home. Here, they were schleps who worked in a factory.

But there is a lot of personal pressure involved in uprooting your family and moving to a different country. That's in addition to the normal pressures people face raising children and making sure there is food on the table. That pressure fades over time as people adjust and you started not hearing those discussions anymore because they know they could never have there what they have here.

Today, they are some of the biggest flag wavers you are ever going to meet with the exception of one uncle I call a commie.

The point I am trying to make is that people evolve over time. They don't love America instantly when the airplane lands. In fact, my dad for many years thought this was a real shythole compared to Sweden, from where he came.

The Tsarnaevs were an extreme case, but what I've read about the father makes him sound like the Chechen side of the family was normal. The mother, however, was an Avar who was a native to Dagestan and not a Chechen.

Like I said, wild guess but I think the name "Tsarnaev" (i.e. "Czar") tells you a lot: Family loyal to the Christian Orthodox Czar. People like that don't strap bombs to themselves and commit jihad.
Biggest Johnson

Galloway, OH

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#15
May 2, 2013
 

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Big Johnson wrote:
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The johnson is very real and very big.
Pshaw, you little gnat.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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May 2, 2013
 

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Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>

I remember back in the 1970's there was a lot of discussion around the dinner table with my mostly Republican-minded aunts and uncles about how much America sucked and how they would rather be back home. Like the Tsarnaevs, they were somebodies back home. Here, they were schleps who worked in a factory.
There was a lot of similar discussion around a lot of tables during the 70s and thereabouts. Lotta folks swore that they would leave the country if Nixon got in (or got in again). A few left, mostly draft dodgers going to Canada and the odd Black Panther who was able to hijack a plan to Cuba.

Enormous upheaval and progress. The Civil Rights movement, and Women's Rights movement, did actually bring positive change--overcoming the worst of the Jim Crow rut we had been in, and a psychological hypersexualization and infantalization of women that really expanded following WWII.

And we certainly had our own home-grown version of radicalization. Different philosophies, different methods, but certainly it happened--and right there in the middle of Ozzie and Harriet land.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#17
May 2, 2013
 
Enzyte Bob wrote:
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I am in my late 40's, I was born here and I still haven't completely assimilated. Nor do I want to. That is a fact of immigration whether people like it or not.
People come here for the money and the economic opportunity. They don't and most never will buy into WASP/Secular Jewish culture. I certainly don't.
That doesn't mean I want to set bombs of in public places ... well, maybe at all the Secular Jewish ACLU Offices (Note to FBI: Joke),
Not sure that your personal situation, or mine since they're a bit similar, are relevant examples here.

"Cultural assimilation" is a false idea. To assimilate into a society, to me, simply means we are able to function well within it. Doesn't necessarily mean we absorb or even advocate some of the values it displays. And our "culture" in the US has never really been 100% homogeneous--since its inception if you look back and take a hard look at blacks in our society due to slavery and issues that surrounding events like the 1840s potato famine and the ensuing Irish immigration here.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

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#18
May 2, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a lot of similar discussion around a lot of tables during the 70s and thereabouts. Lotta folks swore that they would leave the country if Nixon got in (or got in again). A few left, mostly draft dodgers going to Canada and the odd Black Panther who was able to hijack a plan to Cuba.
Enormous upheaval and progress. The Civil Rights movement, and Women's Rights movement, did actually bring positive change--overcoming the worst of the Jim Crow rut we had been in, and a psychological hypersexualization and infantalization of women that really expanded following WWII.
And we certainly had our own home-grown version of radicalization. Different philosophies, different methods, but certainly it happened--and right there in the middle of Ozzie and Harriet land.
That had nothing to do with us. That had to do with the children of a pseudo prominent farm family back where they came from.(The way to best describe it would be like one of these farm families here that has lived in a township forever, has been township trustee, etc.) They went to college (thanks mostly to the commies), but made squat because everybody is paid in Borat money over there. Here they go back to being peasants, which they were used to but not what they aspired to do. The economic upheaval of the 1970's also didn't help and they got ZERO public assistance, unlike the Tsarnaevs.

Point being, what they teach you in elementary school about people loving America and leaving some mythical shackles in their country is pretty much a fairy tale. People come here to make money and collect stuff. So long as they can do that, they are happy. If they don't find success in doing that, they want to go back home.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

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#19
May 2, 2013
 
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure that your personal situation, or mine since they're a bit similar, are relevant examples here.
"Cultural assimilation" is a false idea. To assimilate into a society, to me, simply means we are able to function well within it. Doesn't necessarily mean we absorb or even advocate some of the values it displays. And our "culture" in the US has never really been 100% homogeneous--since its inception if you look back and take a hard look at blacks in our society due to slavery and issues that surrounding events like the 1840s potato famine and the ensuing Irish immigration here.
That's true. NPR once had a blurb about a book where some professor tracked people's ethnicities and his take was even when you get to the third or fourth generations, people don't completely assimilate. Cultures are very strong and they live on - especially when there is a religious component involved. I lost the title, but it sounded interesting to read.

“Paper Or Plastic?”

Since: Nov 11

Albakoikee

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#20
May 2, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a lot of similar discussion around a lot of tables during the 70s and thereabouts. Lotta folks swore that they would leave the country if Nixon got in (or got in again). A few left, mostly draft dodgers going to Canada and the odd Black Panther who was able to hijack a plan to Cuba.
Enormous upheaval and progress. The Civil Rights movement, and Women's Rights movement, did actually bring positive change--overcoming the worst of the Jim Crow rut we had been in, and a psychological hypersexualization and infantalization of women that really expanded following WWII.
And we certainly had our own home-grown version of radicalization. Different philosophies, different methods, but certainly it happened--and right there in the middle of Ozzie and Harriet land.
I've often wondered how the "escape" to Cuba worked out for those people. The poverty line there is much more obvious than it is here.

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