Muslims unite behind NYC mosque | The...

Muslims unite behind NYC mosque | The Columbus Dispatch

There are 65 comments on the Columbus Dispatch story from Sep 18, 2010, titled Muslims unite behind NYC mosque | The Columbus Dispatch. In it, Columbus Dispatch reports that:

Some Muslims who initially were indifferent about a proposed Islamic center near the World Trade Center site now are rallying around the plan, partly in response to a sense that their faith is under assault.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Columbus Dispatch.

dave chappelle

Columbus, OH

#44 Sep 19, 2010
Clueless Dem wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Catholics are not supposed to eat meat on Fridays during lent. Talk about a bunch of extremist basterds.
But the Catholic Church doesn't have the US government enforce its rules.
Wake up and read the post.
gokeefe

Galloway, OH

#45 Sep 19, 2010
Clueless Dem wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Catholics are not supposed to eat meat on Fridays during lent. Talk about a bunch of extremist basterds.
Extremist? For not eating meat on Fridays during Lent? That's about 7 Fridays out of the year. Who is the clueless one here? Nothing violent or extreme about eating meals without meat for about 7 days out of the year.

You really need to find a better comeback if you're trying to be funny. Lame, lame, lame.
Clueless Dem

United States

#46 Sep 19, 2010
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Extremist? For not eating meat on Fridays during Lent? That's about 7 Fridays out of the year. Who is the clueless one here? Nothing violent or extreme about eating meals without meat for about 7 days out of the year.
You really need to find a better comeback if you're trying to be funny. Lame, lame, lame.
Time to update that sarcasm detector plugin.
i wish

Chesapeake, OH

#47 Sep 19, 2010
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Christianity also has a political bend to it as well. Ever listen to Glenn Beck? The "gospel of properity" funded by Goldline and some food company...all gauranteed to scare us out of our wits, that armageddeon is near, and if we don't repent and buy gold and food, we'll be punished bad by God? And yet, he is used by Fox to stump and promote right-wing politicians.
Hmmm. Different audience. Different context. Different country. But same political tactics. Control your audience to conform to the pundit's world view.
Problem is, many fundamentalists or extremists in any religion use fear or hate to gain political power. The Catholic Church itself was once the largest political power in the western world. And it remains a political force in some ways. Religion was used to govern/rule peoples well before western civilization was in existence and in fact propolled the development of western civilization.
Would have never thought you were a follower of Glenn Beck. You conceal it well.
gokeefe

Galloway, OH

#48 Sep 19, 2010
i wish wrote:
<quoted text>Would have never thought you were a follower of Glenn Beck. You conceal it well.
No, I'm not. You can't avoid him though. He's a pervasive little idiot.
you re kidding right

Blacklick, OH

#50 Sep 19, 2010
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm not. You can't avoid him though. He's a pervasive little idiot.
Sure you can avoid him. I avoid the sniveling, driveling loons at MSNBC simply by not tuning in, and they're 100x more idiotic than Glenn Beck.

Since: Jul 10

Columbus, OH

#51 Sep 19, 2010
Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult.

In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the > case in:

United States -- Muslim 0..6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. In Russia, grade-schools were attacked. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, beheadings, stoning, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
I
gokeefe

Galloway, OH

#52 Sep 19, 2010
you re kidding right wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure you can avoid him. I avoid the sniveling, driveling loons at MSNBC simply by not tuning in, and they're 100x more idiotic than Glenn Beck.
Not if you have office mates without headphones.

I think MSPMS is as idiotic as Beck. Opposite ends of the spectrum.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#53 Sep 19, 2010
liberal_truth wrote:
Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult.
In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.
So is traditional Christianity, at least in the way it is supposed to be practiced and as many people still practice it in Europe and the Middle East. It is only in this country where everything, including religion, is turned into a product. Even most of the shops still close on Sundays in the parts of Europe I've been to.
dave chappelle

Columbus, OH

#54 Sep 19, 2010
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
So is traditional Christianity, at least in the way it is supposed to be practiced and as many people still practice it in Europe and the Middle East. It is only in this country where everything, including religion, is turned into a product. Even most of the shops still close on Sundays in the parts of Europe I've been to.
"Even most of the shops still close on Sundays in the parts of Europe I've been to."

These days that has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a lifestyle that has been built on the foundation of socialism. Europeans don't work nearly as hard or as smart as Americans. They demand their state mandated six weeks of vacation and stunted retail operating hours because they're not motivated. Look at France; major cities are shut down for the entire month of August.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#55 Sep 19, 2010
dave chappelle wrote:
<quoted text>
"Even most of the shops still close on Sundays in the parts of Europe I've been to."
These days that has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a lifestyle that has been built on the foundation of socialism. Europeans don't work nearly as hard or as smart as Americans. They demand their state mandated six weeks of vacation and stunted retail operating hours because they're not motivated. Look at France; major cities are shut down for the entire month of August.
Depends what part of Europe you are talking about. France and England are very secular, but Italy, Greece, Spain and the countries that surround them are very religious, even if few people actively go to church. Likewise with Yugoslavia, Poland, Ukarine. Even the Netherlands is considered a very devout country, even though it is liberal and the church pews might be empty on Sunday. Don't know so much about Germany, but guessing the same holds true. Don't confuse the act of going to church with whether or not the people are religious.

Personally, I think society worked better when everything was closed on Sundays. Everybody needs a day to be with family or just to chill out.
dave chappelle

Columbus, OH

#56 Sep 19, 2010
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Depends what part of Europe you are talking about. France and England are very secular, but Italy, Greece, Spain and the countries that surround them are very religious, even if few people actively go to church. Likewise with Yugoslavia, Poland, Ukarine. Even the Netherlands is considered a very devout country, even though it is liberal and the church pews might be empty on Sunday. Don't know so much about Germany, but guessing the same holds true. Don't confuse the act of going to church with whether or not the people are religious.
Personally, I think society worked better when everything was closed on Sundays. Everybody needs a day to be with family or just to chill out.
"Personally, I think society worked better when everything was closed on Sundays. Everybody needs a day to be with family or just to chill out."

I agree. Life was easier then. Growing up on the east coast, I remember until the late '70s on Sundays the only things open were pharmacies from 8:00 AM until 2:00 PM, restaurants and a few gas stations, mostly near major roads.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#57 Sep 19, 2010
dave chappelle wrote:
<quoted text>
"Personally, I think society worked better when everything was closed on Sundays. Everybody needs a day to be with family or just to chill out."
I agree. Life was easier then. Growing up on the east coast, I remember until the late '70s on Sundays the only things open were pharmacies from 8:00 AM until 2:00 PM, restaurants and a few gas stations, mostly near major roads.
I remember when some Kroger stores were closed Sundays, with the busier ones later opening only from 10 to 6. Europoeans enjoy their lives and the people around them much more than we do. You don't need to be on the go all the time.

Even the lowly retail worker deserves to have a day off to be with family.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#58 Sep 19, 2010
I think one thing people have to be careful about is distinguishing between going to church every Sunday versus the practice of Christianity from a cultural standpoint and making it a part of your every day life. Whereas Americans are stronger when it comes to outward expressions of faith such as going to church, Europeans are stronger at embracing Christian behaviors. It is internal to them because of the family-orientation of European societies.

Think of things this way. Remember how we were all told that Russia was officially an Athiest country and how all religion was banned? Then after the iron curtain fell, we find such things as the fact that Putin was baptized by his mother as a child and that the church did survive for over 100 years, and kept training bishops and priests and hierarchs.

I think the same thing is going on in Europe. We hear a lot about how secular they are, but I'm guessing it's just talk, just like the example I used about Russia.
gokeefe

Galloway, OH

#59 Sep 19, 2010
Enzyte Bob wrote:
I think one thing people have to be careful about is distinguishing between going to church every Sunday versus the practice of Christianity from a cultural standpoint and making it a part of your every day life. Whereas Americans are stronger when it comes to outward expressions of faith such as going to church, Europeans are stronger at embracing Christian behaviors. It is internal to them because of the family-orientation of European societies.
Think of things this way. Remember how we were all told that Russia was officially an Athiest country and how all religion was banned? Then after the iron curtain fell, we find such things as the fact that Putin was baptized by his mother as a child and that the church did survive for over 100 years, and kept training bishops and priests and hierarchs.
I think the same thing is going on in Europe. We hear a lot about how secular they are, but I'm guessing it's just talk, just like the example I used about Russia.
They seem much more secular because they have learned to distinguish between civil responsibility and moral responsibility. They haven't the overriding need to convert anyone. A branch of my family came from a small village in Poland. No churches, no synagogues. Mixed Catholic/Jewish community. A priest or a rabbi would travel infrequently to service the faithful. When no cleric was available, they would hold services in their homes. If a death occurred or a child was born, or harvest was coming in, it was simply a matter of making sure those in need were helped. A Catholic would help to bury the Jewish dead, a Jewish midwife would deliver a Catholic child. Fields needed to be plowed and resources were scare. Neighbors would share farm implements and animals.

It was of no matter or consequence what faith one's neighbors were. They simply understood it was not only good civic behavior to be helpful to each other, but it was also good "religion."

Europeans today find our society rather silly. As do Canadians. They don't understand the blurring of "patriotism" and "religion" and they don't understand why we have the constant obsession with being "busy"---having each moment so occupied you neglect yourself and your family.
dave chappelle

Columbus, OH

#60 Sep 19, 2010
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
They seem much more secular because they have learned to distinguish between civil responsibility and moral responsibility. They haven't the overriding need to convert anyone. A branch of my family came from a small village in Poland. No churches, no synagogues. Mixed Catholic/Jewish community. A priest or a rabbi would travel infrequently to service the faithful. When no cleric was available, they would hold services in their homes. If a death occurred or a child was born, or harvest was coming in, it was simply a matter of making sure those in need were helped. A Catholic would help to bury the Jewish dead, a Jewish midwife would deliver a Catholic child. Fields needed to be plowed and resources were scare. Neighbors would share farm implements and animals.
It was of no matter or consequence what faith one's neighbors were. They simply understood it was not only good civic behavior to be helpful to each other, but it was also good "religion."
Europeans today find our society rather silly. As do Canadians. They don't understand the blurring of "patriotism" and "religion" and they don't understand why we have the constant obsession with being "busy"---having each moment so occupied you neglect yourself and your family.
"As do Canadians."
I agree, but as one who spent seven years living in Canada, the Canadian attitude can also be called envy. The Canadian national identity has yet to be determined after 143 years. So insecure are they as a people they allow their government to mandate that 40% of everything shown on television and broadcast on radio be of "Canadian content."
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#61 Sep 19, 2010
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Europeans today find our society rather silly. As do Canadians. They don't understand the blurring of "patriotism" and "religion" and they don't understand why we have the constant obsession with being "busy"---having each moment so occupied you neglect yourself and your family.
I agreed with everything until that last paragraph? Are you kidding? Like we're the only ones who blur "patriotism" and "religion"? All of the national churches of Europe were intertwined with their respective monarchies, and secessionist groups almost always wave the flag of their particular religion. The Orangemen are synonymous with the Anglican Church, and did you miss what the Serbians and Croatians (essentially the same people) were fighting over? Catholicism versus Orthodoxy, which are essentially the same religion? Likewise, Greece is synonymous with Orthodoxy.

Nationalism and religion have a long history. Just a fake facade these days to pretend that isn't true.
gokeefe

Galloway, OH

#62 Sep 19, 2010
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I agreed with everything until that last paragraph? Are you kidding? Like we're the only ones who blur "patriotism" and "religion"? All of the national churches of Europe were intertwined with their respective monarchies, and secessionist groups almost always wave the flag of their particular religion. The Orangemen are synonymous with the Anglican Church, and did you miss what the Serbians and Croatians (essentially the same people) were fighting over? Catholicism versus Orthodoxy, which are essentially the same religion? Likewise, Greece is synonymous with Orthodoxy.
Nationalism and religion have a long history. Just a fake facade these days to pretend that isn't true.
No doubt. I can only speak second-hand as having British and Canadian family and friends. Most find it thoroughly strange that folks fly flags on their cars and that we insist this is a "Christian" nation.

The crux of this matter is that we were designed by the Constitution to be a government free of religious interference. Our government was not founded upon any religious institution or faith. Try finding the word "god" in the constitution. You'd be hard-pressed to do so. Wise reasoning there. Our founding fathers understood the conflicts between religions.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#63 Sep 19, 2010
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt. I can only speak second-hand as having British and Canadian family and friends. Most find it thoroughly strange that folks fly flags on their cars and that we insist this is a "Christian" nation.
That's odd coming from countries that are constitutional monarchies where the head of state is the Queen of England, where the Queen's appointed governor basically has veto power over the legislature, and where the Queen of England is also the titular head of the Church of England. If that's not a Christian country, I don't know what is.
pamela hobbs

United States

#64 Sep 19, 2010
There has to be a stopping point. This is America. Americans must stand up and do it now. We are losing. As Americans we must fight forour rights. The muslims come here and find things offensive. They file lawsuits. If we as Americans dont stand up and demand our country back. We will be forced to a bow to a muslim or be killed.
I will not bow down
I am an American
i will die for my American right.

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