Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#79 Feb 28, 2013
I repeat: Facts are a bitch!
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#80 Feb 28, 2013
PS, the only states with low/no severance taxes are the "blue states" of PA, NY and Ohio (and Iowa). But that situation won't last for long.

PA and Ohio are going to have a tax soon.

In fact, PA officials claim that the state would missed out on $500 million in tax ... that's $500 million more in Chesapeake Energy's pockets ... and higher property taxes for me.

It's coming.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#83 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want parity then why do you insist on an increase rather than cuts in the other states? How is increasing my taxes while lowering yours parity?
Parity would be a flat tax not based purely on income say 3% Federal 2% State 1% local which would include county township and municipality and only in the place one resides.
You get no argument from me that there are too many entities and boards and districts and crap like that.

The other reason I have the attitude I have is that I've served on a church board for over 10 years. I used to hear all the same crap you hear about government about how all the money is wasted, how they don't know how to manage money, blah, blah, blah. But after serving 10 years and being hands on, you realize there isn't really too much you can cut unless you're Rod Parsly and have a Gulfstream.

But as we've discussed, sometimes the cost is worth it. If I live in UA, I'm okay with the high taxes because my 60's ranch home doubles in value every so often. That very same style ranch home in Berwick kind of stays the same in value so maybe I'm less okay there.

And this is an educated, slightly upscale metro area, people like sh^t like parks and zoos and stuff like that.

Columbus' budget is 80% salaries. The national budget is, what, 2/3 entitlements?

And I'm certain if Columbus were annexing out your way, you would want to keep your township intact.

So that begs the question, what's to cut? If it were all about being cheap, then we go to county governments like Nashville, Indy, Jacksonville, Louisville and Charlotte. But most of those places suck.

So that begs the question, what's to cut?
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#85 Feb 28, 2013
Another example:

The Jefferson Township Water and Sewer District.

Water costs 3 x the amount it does in Columbus due to their massive debt, but they succeeded in keeping Columbus and Gahanna out and junking up the area.

So was it worth it?

My brother bitches about his water bill, but I can guarantee he doesn't want to live in either Columbus or Gahanna.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#86 Feb 28, 2013
So ...... small government sounds great!

Until you start adding up what people do want and what they don't want.

And at the end of the day, people want sh^t. Even in Texas, sooner or later people will eventually want sh^t.

Cleveland always had their great MetroParks system. We didn't have such a system. Thirty years later, we are starting to have a better system.

So what are you going to cut?
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#87 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything. You want a bike trail you and your kind pay for it. You want trees and decorative walls along the highway you pay for it. Those walls don't maintain the road base or surface.
Part of the reason this area keeps growing is because it's nice. Without decorative walls it starts looking like Buffalo or Cleveland. Is that what you want?

The bike trails? Obama money and people want keep voting for the MetroParks, so the people must want them.

I can't wait until the MetroParks expands its territory into outlying counties. You're going to have a conniption fit. But if they're buying parks in Union and Fairfield Counties, why shouldn't you guys have to chip in and pay for them?
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#88 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
See you are a communist. You want money from someone elses pocket. Typical lazy thieving communist. Waa waaa he has more than I do mr governor go steal from him for me.
The only "ist" I am is a REAList.

You conservatards have been talking about cutting government for 40 years, and it's quadruple the size. Great job on that guys.

That means people want sh^t. And if people want sh^t, that means we have to figure out ways to pay for it. There is a consensus that YOU are going to be one of the ways we pay for it.

When you people stop spending trillions protecting squatters in Israel, I'll give up my bike trails. Deal?
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#90 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
A cell tower requires depending on location permission and fees paid to The State of Ohio, local Zoning or an Attorney to fight local zoning since cell towers are commjnications and under state law exempt from zoning yet not a single zoning inspector or board member has been arrested for ciolating state law on this, a permit from one or more agencys to cross a road with fiber lines and for a driveway, soil and water district review, epa, regional planning etc etc.
Why? Answer pure greed on the part of lazy communists that do not recognize private property.
What if you're the guy next door and you just built a $500,000 McMansion? Do you want someone locating a scrapyard next to you? That scrapyard may have property rights, but if it lowers the value of my property, then it affects my property rights.

All you have to do is drive down along West Broad or Sullivant Ave. in Franklin Twp. and you can see what a mess unregulated property rights create.

(Towers don't bother me, by the way. I don't see why so many people have a conniption fit over them. Especially the newer once that look like those tall highway lamp posts.)

But this kind of goes back go our discussion about guns. If people weren't morons, we wouldn't really need zoning laws would we? But people are morons and without zoning laws everyplace would look like the junkyards along Groveport Pike.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#92 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>

The problem is with you is you want things but don't want to pay for them yourself. You have confused want with need.
Not really. The only thing I really want, I already have: bike trails.

But as to the rest of the stuff, repeating myself, government stadiums have been around since Roman times. Likewise when it comes to parks, water and sewer and whatnot. This is nothing new.

Remember, Columbus used water to gobble up townships. On the other hand, most of Ohio's urbanized townships are a mess if you think West Broad is bad, drive down Colerain Ave. in Cincy or Salem Ave. in Dayton sometime. Hell, Madison Twp. near Eastland is another example of suburban blight.

You need a certain amount of government or you create slums.

Smaller entities are more responsive than larger entities.

So, what's the answer. If anybody had one it would have been implemented by now.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#93 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
So you want the destruction of isreal. Fine then what about the muslims that still will hate us because we are not muslims or have flush toilets or let women drive and talk and not wear burlap over thwir heads?
I guarantee they wouldn't hate us as much if that issue were off the table. Nevertheless, that is one of the perks YOU want and think I should pay for. I think playing world policeman is nonessential and ripe for a cut.
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
Under your theology there is no rigjt or wrong just wants that must be fulfilled? You want a bike trail so it is ok to steal to get it. Hmmm sounds ok with me then we can all just assemble in little tribes and roam the earth watching for someone to have something we want or something we can trade to another tribe to get what we want and steal it.
You're stealing it from me to protect Israel and to provide payoffs to farmers and to Exxon, so why can't I steal it from you for a bike trail and nicer looking freeways?
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#96 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't want to steal to protect Isreal or for Exon. Exon shoukd stand on it's own so should.every company and individual.
hence why I am for a 3% flat tax with State and local added in a total of 5% never to rise until after Hell freezes over, the blue jackets relocate there and when three back to back Stanley Cups.
You want something you pay for it. I am an absolutist on private property. What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours and if you steal from me you suffer a painful death. Outside of roads and national defense I have no use for government. There is nothing of benefit to me from paying lazy people to breed. If they breed let the offspring starve. If they want a open air toilet let the sh1t in their own yard.
I generally hate most humans just because they are useless.
I used to agree with most of that, but then I started looking around at how things are done. It's not that simple.

I was watching a documentary about the building of the World Trade Center and David Rockefeller said that the way great things really get done is through a public/private partnership.

Yeah, they go too far sometimes, like when it comes to building county-owned hotels. But we have 2,000 plus years of government stadiums.

Going to the moon? Waste of money until you think about all the sh^t developed. Velcro, semiconductors, satellites, GPS, the internet, etc.

No government health care? Most of our health care advances come from government/university research.

Not so simple once you start looking at the details.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#97 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
If isreal is so bad and the Palestinians so great why dis Jordan kill so many Palestinians?
I believe in assets not consumption. Do I want to spend trillions blowing shit up and consuming, or do I want to spend trillions building assets like bridges and freeways. I'll take the freeways.

Let the Jews fight their own battles.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#99 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
Just like your UA tax plan.

Tell that one to my brother.

He sold his first house he bought for $90k in UA for $170k - 7 years later. He sold in less than 45 days and with no realtor. He sold it himself.

That house would have been $60k in Whitehall and maybe $65k 7 years later ... and it would have taken all year to sell. And it would have been with a realtor having a zillion open houses.

UA, New Albany and Dublin are prime examples of getting what you pay for. High taxes often work.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#101 Feb 28, 2013
You cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
Better deal than that
bought 40 acres for 24k including mineral rights. Re opened a well for just shy of 10k which included buying and rebuilding service rig with spudder beam. Made back my 34k investment in two months on the well alone. And since it is so far off beaten path no one is driving up land prices so taxes are still under a grand per year. Factoring in oil price falls and rises over the past 20 years that property has made me a few million from the original wells alone and I still own it the rig and have timber to harvest as needed.
Better than having to put up with the high taxes and mouth breathing goons employed by a city to tell me what I can't do on my own land.
I get that and that's how I look at things in my own business affairs.

But for the average homeowner, I've been on both sides of things. My house is going to take forever to sell. It's in Columbus, but it's cheap living. I probably won't make much money, either. The flip side is higher overhead in a high tax community but you'll probably make money, sometimes even a lot of it.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#102 Feb 28, 2013
Apparently, the $910 MILLION paid by the oil and gas industry in 2011 for Ohio state and local taxes just isn't enough for Bob and like-minded wealth redistributionists.

No, indeed. Wealth redistributionists have no problem increasing the taxation of others [i.e., private investors and landowners, most of whom are farmers vehemently opposed to the increase]-- and claiming the bounty as their own.

Listen, if the State of Ohio wants to open up to drilling more state-owned tracts/minerals [purportedly held in trust for Ohioans] and increase the severance tax on products produced from said tracts, with the sole purpose of sharing that bounty with Ohioans [for whom said tracts are held in trust]...I have no problem with that proposal.

However, the State of Ohio has no business levying and/or increasing a severance tax on products produced from privately-owned tracts/minerals, with the sole purpose of redistributing the bounty of private citizens...to other private citizens.

Further, as we are well aware, Kasich cannot achieve his proposed 100% redistribution of those funds to to Ohioans via tax cut/rebate.

[**Note also that such “rebate” was estimated to be a paltry $17-76 --- and those estimates were based on grossly inflated production estimates. As of today, the O&G industry has admitted their advance into the shale has fallen far behind initial estimates.]

Of course, the reason Kasich will not achieve his rebate goal is because all Ohio Democrats and a large portion of Ohio Republicans reject such an idea, preferring that any severance receipts be directed to a "general fund" for...education, health, O&G regulation,“emergency,” et al [i.e., UNION and GOVT goodies].

Whenever government says tax increase, government means to increase itself.

And government doesn't need to.

NO, thank you.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#104 Feb 28, 2013
-tip- wrote:
Apparently, the $910 MILLION paid by the oil and gas industry in 2011 for Ohio state and local taxes just isn't enough for Bob and like-minded wealth redistributionists.
LMAO! How much do you wanna bet a big chunk of that is in GAS TAX we all pay?

How nice of you to make a donation to from your personal funds to run the state of Ohio in order to make sure that Exxon and Chesapeake energy get to make a windfall profit on oil and gas sold at a market price that already factors in severance taxes.

Republicans used to be the smart ones. The libs have you guys pegged! ConservaTards is correct!
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#105 Feb 28, 2013
P.S. I'm really embarassed by you guy, Tip. Republicans are supposed to be the people smart with money and motivated by self-interest.

Getting Exxon to spring for part of the tab to run the State of Ohio (instead of me), is the very definition of being smart and being motivated by self interest.

The very fact that only three states have zero severance tax, and virtually all states have higher severance taxes than Ohio means that this is already factored into the market price.

Why anybody in their right mind want to let Exxon walk away with this money that is already factored into the price of energy and instead use his own personal funds to fund the State of Ohio is beyond me!!!

You guys would not make good businessmen!

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#106 Feb 28, 2013
Enzyte Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO! How much do you wanna bet a big chunk of that is in GAS TAX we all pay?
How nice of you to make a donation to from your personal funds to run the state of Ohio in order to make sure that Exxon and Chesapeake energy get to make a windfall profit on oil and gas sold at a market price that already factors in severance taxes.
Republicans used to be the smart ones. The libs have you guys pegged! ConservaTards is correct!
Again, Bob...increased wealth redistribution from private citizens to union/government entities isn't acceptable just because other states have acceded to it.

I would rather that private citizens and investors -- those who have contracted to assume the risks -- reap the rewards of their endeavors.
Enzyte Bob

Blacklick, OH

#107 Feb 28, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, Bob...increased wealth redistribution from private citizens to union/government entities isn't acceptable just because other states have acceded to it.
I would rather that private citizens and investors -- those who have contracted to assume the risks -- reap the rewards of their endeavors.
Do you believe in markets? Energy is traded in markets and the market price accounts for all relevant factors. If 25+ states have a severance tax, that means it's already factored into the price of energy. In other words, the gross price they get when they sell a barrel of oil already take into account production cost, supply and demand AND EXPENSES SUCH AS THE SEVERANCE TAX.

Using your warped way of looking at things, you are effectively wanting to pay severance tax twice. Once at the pump, and then a second time to the State of Ohio because of some boneheaded anti-government point you want to make.

I thought you knew something about money and economics.

Since when is paying TWICE for the same thing a good idea, and giving the first payment to Exxon and Chesapeake Energy as a donation?

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#108 Feb 28, 2013
Enzyte Bob wrote:
P.S. I'm really embarassed by you guy, Tip. Republicans are supposed to be the people smart with money and motivated by self-interest.
Getting Exxon to spring for part of the tab to run the State of Ohio (instead of me), is the very definition of being smart and being motivated by self interest.
The very fact that only three states have zero severance tax, and virtually all states have higher severance taxes than Ohio means that this is already factored into the market price.
Why anybody in their right mind want to let Exxon walk away with this money that is already factored into the price of energy and instead use his own personal funds to fund the State of Ohio is beyond me!!!
You guys would not make good businessmen!
I suppose if you were the O&G investor/landowner being screwed you might have a different opinion.

But you're not.

So, when the oil & gas industry hits its next inevitable low...which Ohio industry and its Ohio investors will you wealth redistributionists then target to fund Ohio's pet union/govt projects?

And how will you justify that?

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