Why can Mozilla have corporate convic...

Why can Mozilla have corporate convictions but not Hobby Lobby?

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Since: Mar 14

Hilliard, OH

#1 Apr 5, 2014
This week a well known company whose products I have used for years made national headlines. Why? They made a controversial decision based on their closely held corporate convictions in response to a national outcry. They were criticized by those on the other side who claimed that their expression of their organizational beliefs would violate the freedom of their employees and cause them harm.

No, I am not talking about Hobby Lobby. I am talking about Mozilla.

Yesterday, newly appointed Mozilla CEO Brandon Eich resigned amidst an online furor that erupted because he donated $1,000 to support California's Proposition 8 opposing the legalization of same sex marriage. Though Eich had worked for the company for years, made significant achievements in the tech field, and committed to keep his personal convictions isolated from his corporate leadership, criticisms (and even boycotts by some groups, like dating site OK Cupid) resulted in his resignation.

Isn't it interesting that many who don't think Hobby Lobby can have corporate convictions now think that Mozilla can?

The parallels between the two situations are striking. Of course, there are some distinctives between the two that keep them from being identical. But think about the similarities between them on the basis of the following assertion about convictional decision making by organizations (divided into four aspects):(1) Organizations can hold (2) closely held corporate convictions (3) that are used to make significant decisions (4) that reflect the beliefs of its leadership.

Let's think through the parallels between these two corporate situations in light of all four of aspects of the assertion above.

1. Organizations can hold: This is an issue of ability. Can an organization, as an organization, have corporate convictions that drive decisions. It is not a question of should they hold any particular conviction(s). It is Hobby Lobby's conviction that it will not provide abortion-inducing contraceptives. It is Mozilla's conviction that they will not be led by someone who opposes same sex marriage. It is inconsistent to suggest that one organization can have a core conviction and not the other.

2. Closely held corporate convictions: This is an issue of Identity. Notice the term is corporate conviction, not religious belief because Mozilla would likely deny that a particular religion is driving their decision. Regardless of whether an organization's convictions are explicitly based on religion, all companies have some form of corporate values. Both Hobby Lobby and Mozilla have explicitly stated core convictions. It is inconsistent to suggest that one organization can have corporate convictions and not another.

Since: Mar 14

Hilliard, OH

#2 Apr 5, 2014
3. That are used to make significant decisions: This is an issue of strategy. It should be expected that corporations make strategic decisions on the basis of their core values. In the case of Hobby Lobby, the decision was to oppose coverage of abortion inducing contraceptives. In the case of Mozilla, the decision was to remove a leader whose personal beliefs did not match their corporate values. It is inconsistent to suggest that it is right for one organization to make strategic decisions based on core convictions and not the other.

4. That reflect the beliefs of its leadership: This is a question of ideology. The personal preferences of a company's leadership can, and often do, shape the corporate convictions of an organization. One of the main critiques of Hobby Lobby is that its leadership has forced its convictions onto the employees of the organization. But isn't this precisely what Mozilla has done too? How would reactions have been different if Mozilla ran off their CEO for supporting same sex marriage rather than opposing it? Mozilla chairwoman Mitchell Baker said the company failed to stay "true to ourselves" and reflect its organizational culture of "diversity and inclusiveness." In both cases, the convictions of the leadership caused the organization to make controversial decisions. It is inconsistent to suggest that it is right for one organization to make decisions that reflect the ideologies of its leaders and not the other.

Mozilla's decision has raised major concerns for those who care about freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Whether you are Hobby Lobby or your hobby is to lobby for what you believe, you must count the costs of your convictions.
http://erlc.com/article/why-can-mozilla-have-... #
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#3 Apr 5, 2014
You and the writer whose work you have cited are quite confused.

Mr. Eich is not suing the government on behalf of Mozilla to protect Mozilla's right to oppose gay marriage.

Mr. Eich stepped down (most likely after being pressured by the board of directors) because his private actions, once they became public contemporaneous with his appointment as CEO, threatened the bottom line of the company he had worked at for years.

Hobby Lobby's leadership is in snyc with the purposes advanced by the lawsuit it filed, and sees it as benefiting its bottom line.

Mozilla's is not in snyc with the effects of Mr. Eich's donation to prop 8 on its bottom line.

What is popular with the 40-70 year old craft crowd might not be so popular with techies surfing the net.

Its always fun when you cannot discern subtle (and not so subtle) differences that really do matter. And its really fun when you display your hatred of the free market.

What are you...a flippin commie?

woof

Since: Mar 14

Hilliard, OH

#4 Apr 5, 2014
Duke for Mayor wrote:
You and the writer whose work you have cited are quite confused.
Mr. Eich is not suing the government on behalf of Mozilla to protect Mozilla's right to oppose gay marriage.
Mr. Eich stepped down (most likely after being pressured by the board of directors) because his private actions, once they became public contemporaneous with his appointment as CEO, threatened the bottom line of the company he had worked at for years.
Hobby Lobby's leadership is in snyc with the purposes advanced by the lawsuit it filed, and sees it as benefiting its bottom line.
Mozilla's is not in snyc with the effects of Mr. Eich's donation to prop 8 on its bottom line.
What is popular with the 40-70 year old craft crowd might not be so popular with techies surfing the net.
Its always fun when you cannot discern subtle (and not so subtle) differences that really do matter. And its really fun when you display your hatred of the free market.
What are you...a flippin commie?
woof
You still haven't learned how to read:

That reflect the beliefs of its leadership: This is a question of ideology. The personal preferences of a company's leadership can, and often do, shape the corporate convictions of an organization. One of the main critiques of Hobby Lobby is that its leadership has forced its convictions onto the employees of the organization. But isn't this precisely what Mozilla has done too? How would reactions have been different if Mozilla ran off their CEO for supporting same sex marriage rather than opposing it? Mozilla chairwoman Mitchell Baker said the company failed to stay "true to ourselves" and reflect its organizational culture of "diversity and inclusiveness." In both cases, the convictions of the leadership caused the organization to make controversial decisions. It is inconsistent to suggest that it is right for one organization to make decisions that reflect the ideologies of its leaders and not the other.
Cleavon Little

Columbus, OH

#5 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
This week a well known company whose products I have used for years made national headlines. Why? They made a controversial decision based on their closely held corporate convictions in response to a national outcry. They were criticized by those on the other side who claimed that their expression of their organizational beliefs would violate the freedom of their employees and cause them harm.
No, I am not talking about Hobby Lobby. I am talking about Mozilla.
Yesterday, newly appointed Mozilla CEO Brandon Eich resigned amidst an online furor that erupted because he donated $1,000 to support California's Proposition 8 opposing the legalization of same sex marriage. Though Eich had worked for the company for years, made significant achievements in the tech field, and committed to keep his personal convictions isolated from his corporate leadership, criticisms (and even boycotts by some groups, like dating site OK Cupid) resulted in his resignation.
Isn't it interesting that many who don't think Hobby Lobby can have corporate convictions now think that Mozilla can?
The parallels between the two situations are striking. Of course, there are some distinctives between the two that keep them from being identical. But think about the similarities between them on the basis of the following assertion about convictional decision making by organizations (divided into four aspects):(1) Organizations can hold (2) closely held corporate convictions (3) that are used to make significant decisions (4) that reflect the beliefs of its leadership.
Let's think through the parallels between these two corporate situations in light of all four of aspects of the assertion above.
1. Organizations can hold: This is an issue of ability. Can an organization, as an organization, have corporate convictions that drive decisions. It is not a question of should they hold any particular conviction(s). It is Hobby Lobby's conviction that it will not provide abortion-inducing contraceptives. It is Mozilla's conviction that they will not be led by someone who opposes same sex marriage. It is inconsistent to suggest that one organization can have a core conviction and not the other.
2. Closely held corporate convictions: This is an issue of Identity. Notice the term is corporate conviction, not religious belief because Mozilla would likely deny that a particular religion is driving their decision. Regardless of whether an organization's convictions are explicitly based on religion, all companies have some form of corporate values. Both Hobby Lobby and Mozilla have explicitly stated core convictions. It is inconsistent to suggest that one organization can have corporate convictions and not another.
There should be a law.
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#6 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
<quoted text>You still haven't learned how to read:
That reflect the beliefs of its leadership: This is a question of ideology. The personal preferences of a company's leadership can, and often do, shape the corporate convictions of an organization. One of the main critiques of Hobby Lobby is that its leadership has forced its convictions onto the employees of the organization. But isn't this precisely what Mozilla has done too? How would reactions have been different if Mozilla ran off their CEO for supporting same sex marriage rather than opposing it? Mozilla chairwoman Mitchell Baker said the company failed to stay "true to ourselves" and reflect its organizational culture of "diversity and inclusiveness." In both cases, the convictions of the leadership caused the organization to make controversial decisions. It is inconsistent to suggest that it is right for one organization to make decisions that reflect the ideologies of its leaders and not the other.
One company is making internal business decisions in accordance with the law. The other is suing the government trying to get an exemption from the law of the land. It's really quite simple. Unless one is trying to contort the circumstances to try to make a political point. Or unless one isn't very smart, 3.1.

Since: Mar 14

Hilliard, OH

#7 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
One company is making internal business decisions in accordance with the law. The other is suing the government trying to get an exemption from the law of the land. It's really quite simple. Unless one is trying to contort the circumstances to try to make a political point. Or unless one isn't very smart, 3.1.
Hobby Lobby was FORCED into suing in an attempt to safeguard their rights under the US Constitution. Are you that dense, little girl?
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#8 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
<quoted text>Hobby Lobby was FORCED into suing in an attempt to safeguard their rights under the US Constitution. Are you that dense, little girl?
I'm very interested to hear all about a corporation's religious beliefs. That would make Citizens United seem rational.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm very interested to hear all about a corporation's religious beliefs. That would make Citizens United seem rational.
It's a privately held corporation.

Since: Mar 14

Hilliard, OH

#10 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm very interested to hear all about a corporation's religious beliefs. That would make Citizens United seem rational.
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act. One would think it would be familiar to a "lawyer."

Did you know that the title of the suit is "Sebelius v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc."? So, just who is suing whom?

And why do you people always leave this fact out?

"The Green family has no moral objection to the use of 16 of 20 preventive contraceptives required in the mandate and will continue its longstanding practice of covering these preventive contraceptives for its employees."

Hobby Lobby is privately held. Just like this:

(CNN)-- Conestoga Wood Specialties was founded a half-century ago in a Pennsylvania garage. The Hahn family's commitment to quality is driven in large part by their Christian faith, which in turn may soon threaten the company's very existence.

That financial and constitutional dynamic is now before the U.S. Supreme Court, in a high-stakes encore to the health care reform law known as Obamacare. The justices will hear oral arguments Tuesday in a dispute involving contraception coverage and religious liberty.

The court will review provisions in the Affordable Care Act requiring for-profit employers of a certain size to offer insurance benefits for birth control and other reproductive health services without a co-pay. At issue is whether certain companies can refuse to do so on the sincere claim it would violate their owners' long-established personal beliefs.

"Our religion is Mennonite; that is our faith. Our company was founded on that religion as well," said Conestoga's President Anthony Hahn, son of the privately held company's co-founder. "We feel the government has gone too far in too many instances. It's been troubling to us as a family."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/21/politics/scotus...
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#11 Apr 5, 2014
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a privately held corporation.
So?
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#12 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
<quoted text>The Religious Freedom Restoration Act. One would think it would be familiar to a "lawyer."
Did you know that the title of the suit is "Sebelius v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc."? So, just who is suing whom?
And why do you people always leave this fact out?
"The Green family has no moral objection to the use of 16 of 20 preventive contraceptives required in the mandate and will continue its longstanding practice of covering these preventive contraceptives for its employees."
Hobby Lobby is privately held. Just like this:
(CNN)-- Conestoga Wood Specialties was founded a half-century ago in a Pennsylvania garage. The Hahn family's commitment to quality is driven in large part by their Christian faith, which in turn may soon threaten the company's very existence.
That financial and constitutional dynamic is now before the U.S. Supreme Court, in a high-stakes encore to the health care reform law known as Obamacare. The justices will hear oral arguments Tuesday in a dispute involving contraception coverage and religious liberty.
The court will review provisions in the Affordable Care Act requiring for-profit employers of a certain size to offer insurance benefits for birth control and other reproductive health services without a co-pay. At issue is whether certain companies can refuse to do so on the sincere claim it would violate their owners' long-established personal beliefs.
"Our religion is Mennonite; that is our faith. Our company was founded on that religion as well," said Conestoga's President Anthony Hahn, son of the privately held company's co-founder. "We feel the government has gone too far in too many instances. It's been troubling to us as a family."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/21/politics/scotus...
Hobby Lobby sued the United States, you moron. It won in the Court of Appeals and the government appealed. The appealing party's name is listed first in the SCOTUS.

To believe that a corporation, a fictional entity, has religious beliefs is disingenuous.

Since: Mar 14

Hilliard, OH

#13 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
Hobby Lobby sued the United States, you moron. It won in the Court of Appeals and the government appealed. The appealing party's name is listed first in the SCOTUS.
To believe that a corporation, a fictional entity, has religious beliefs is disingenuous.
"A fictional entity?" A corporation is a LEGAL entity. Are you aware of the derivation of the word, "corporation"?

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#14 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
the law of the land..
Any leftist saying the above is guilty of a godwins law analogue.

The left cares not about "the law of the land" when its about getting permanent majority

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#15 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
So?
Why are you such a statist bootlicker?
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#16 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
<quoted text>"A fictional entity?" A corporation is a LEGAL entity. Are you aware of the derivation of the word, "corporation"?
It is an entity with out a body or a mind. For it to claim religion is more bizarre than religion itself.
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#17 Apr 5, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Any leftist saying the above is guilty of a godwins law analogue.
The left cares not about "the law of the land" when its about getting permanent majority
You know what this whole Mozilla thing is? ANTI WHITE RACISM!
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#18 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
<quoted text>"A fictional entity?" A corporation is a LEGAL entity. Are you aware of the derivation of the word, "corporation"?
Oh, can you also tell us more about how the government is suing poor Hobby Lobby?
Wee Little Johnson

Chagrin Falls, OH

#19 Apr 5, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
You know what this whole Mozilla thing is? ANTI WHITE RACISM!
I will tell you what racism is. It's you not eating my poo.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#20 Apr 5, 2014
Gravedigger Jones wrote:
<quoted text>Hobby Lobby was FORCED into suing in an attempt to safeguard their rights under the US Constitution. Are you that dense, little girl?
So, somebody held them at gunpoint and they were under duress when they paid the retainer?

Are you aware that Hobby Lobby's insurance policies were covering contraception for years prior to the ACA's implementation, and the only reason Hobby Lobby realized it was as a result of reviewing their policies after the law went into effect?

woof

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