Gay teacher fired by Catholic school claims discrimination

Apr 23, 2013 Full story: World Magazine 1,746

Carla Hale, 59, a lesbian P.E. teacher, has filed a grievance against the diocese of the Ohio Catholic school where she worked for 19 years until administrators fired her for "violating moral law." According to The Columbus Dispatch , Hale's sexual orientation became public when an obituary for her late mother published Hale's name along with the ... (more)

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IRYW

Malvern, PA

#698 Apr 27, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
In the case of Catholic schools, they spend the income on EDUCATION. And tuition is often not enough to cover the per-pupil costs..
I was talking about churches, not catholic schools. HOwever, the data on how much the catholic church spends on actual charity as a percentage of its revenue is just as damning.
gokeefe wrote:
<
Show the analyses that "indicate churches spend less than 10% of their revenue on charity" and THEN connect it back to this lawsuit..
I wasn't talking about the lawsuit.
gokeefe wrote:
<
I think Carl Sagan would have a field day (or a huge headache) dealing with your logic. Google "baloney detector kit" sometime.
Really? The principles of logic are fairly straightforward. Why don't you show me, in logical terms, where the flaws are. Or is ad hominem all you have to offer?

Read this for some eye opening info.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php...

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#699 Apr 27, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
I was talking about churches, not catholic schools. HOwever, the data on how much the catholic church spends on actual charity as a percentage of its revenue is just as damning.
<quoted text>
I wasn't talking about the lawsuit.
<quoted text>
Really? The principles of logic are fairly straightforward. Why don't you show me, in logical terms, where the flaws are. Or is ad hominem all you have to offer?
Read this for some eye opening info.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php...
Well....it is very apparent that you aren't educated about the institution you are arguing against. The topic of this discussion is that the Diocese of Columbus via Watterson High School fired Carla Hale. Your argument is not focused on the Catholic Church's or Carla Hale's legal grounds, but rather against churches in general.

A hint: the school Carla Hale was fired from is run by the Catholic Church, it is a part of the Diocese of Columbus. Therefore, Church with a capital C.

You'll need to provide data and insight specific TO the Catholic Church OR to the Diocese of Columbus in order to make a case that 1) it doesn't deserve to be classified with the 501c exemption and 2) that a miniscule amount of its income goes to charity. C'mon, if you are so smart, you can do better than what you've provided!

So you are, in my opinion, according to Sagan:
- begging the question
- misunderstanding statistics
- providing a straw man argument

Just some thoughts I had.
Duke for Mayor

Uniontown, OH

#700 Apr 27, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Some would say it even happened to Hillary as the race card and outright theft denied her the nomination.
You're insane.

woof
IRYW

Malvern, PA

#702 Apr 27, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Well....it is very apparent that you aren't educated about the institution you are arguing against. The topic of this discussion is that the Diocese of Columbus via Watterson High School fired Carla Hale..
No, that is the original topic of the thread. The topic of discussion changes constantly, with related and unrelated arguments coming and going.
gokeefe wrote:
< Your argument is not focused on the Catholic Church's or Carla Hale's legal grounds, but rather against churches in general..
Correct. However, earlier in the thread I addressed the Hale legal situation.
gokeefe wrote:
<
You'll need to provide data and insight specific TO the Catholic Church OR to the Diocese of Columbus in order to make a case that 1) it doesn't deserve to be classified with the 501c exemption and 2) that a miniscule amount of its income goes to charity.d.
But I didn't make that argument; you got confused.
gokeefe wrote:
<
So you are, in my opinion, according to Sagan:
- begging the question
- misunderstanding statistics
- providing a straw man argument
.
Begging the question means the premise assumes the conclusion is true. Like religious arguments that say the bible is the word of god therefore there is a god. So you beg the question all the time. However, I did not; if you want to claim i did you'll need to be specific.

Misunderstanding statistics is not a logical fallacy. It is just ignorance. You misunderstand statistics all the time in your religious claims.

A strawman argument is setting up a false caricature of the actual argument that is easy to knock down and then claim victory over the opponent. That is what you did, not me.

BTW, Sagan was a astronomer, not a logician. But he would have taken you to the cleaners.
gokeefe wrote:
<

Just some thoughts I had.
You think those were thoughts?
Skid

Grafton, OH

#703 Apr 27, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is the original topic of the thread. The topic of discussion changes constantly, with related and unrelated arguments coming and going.
<quoted text>
Correct. However, earlier in the thread I addressed the Hale legal situation.
<quoted text>
But I didn't make that argument; you got confused.
<quoted text>
Begging the question means the premise assumes the conclusion is true. Like religious arguments that say the bible is the word of god therefore there is a god. So you beg the question all the time. However, I did not; if you want to claim i did you'll need to be specific.
Misunderstanding statistics is not a logical fallacy. It is just ignorance. You misunderstand statistics all the time in your religious claims.
A strawman argument is setting up a false caricature of the actual argument that is easy to knock down and then claim victory over the opponent. That is what you did, not me.
BTW, Sagan was a astronomer, not a logician. But he would have taken you to the cleaners.
<quoted text>
You think those were thoughts?
shut up and go away

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#704 Apr 27, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I can only assume DNF stands for the following:
Did Not Finish...
..."the talk," with my parents; still confused.
...high school; failed anatomy and biology.
...the Bible; in fact, haven't started reading it.
you make a lot of assumptions and you know what they say happens when you assume.

BTW That's about the 47th time I've read that exact post. I point that out simply to demonstrate that trollish humor is never very original.

DNF are my initials.
My first name means Beloved by God
My middle name is the same as a famous British admiral
(no relation) but it is a family name passed down from the branch I'm related to via General George Pershing
My last Name has 5 Letters
Skid

Grafton, OH

#705 Apr 27, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>you make a lot of assumptions and you know what they say happens when you assume.
BTW That's about the 47th time I've read that exact post. I point that out simply to demonstrate that trollish humor is never very original.
DNF are my initials.
My first name means Beloved by God
My middle name is the same as a famous British admiral
(no relation) but it is a family name passed down from the branch I'm related to via General George Pershing
My last Name has 5 Letters
bleh

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#706 Apr 27, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>How nice for you. You pay your taxes, my my, I am sure your Congressional Medal of Honor will be along any day now.
WHO said you did not pay taxes? WHAT does that have to do with ANYTHING? gee, deflect from the subject much?
I shop at Target. I go to the movies. I dine at restaurants. UNLIKE your church, THESE place pay taxes to help the community they exist in, unlike your tithe sucking churches which sit there like hogs in slop, picking the congregation members up by the ankles and shaking money out of their pockets, while NOT paying taxes on it.
How is it that your post gets 3 peanuts and a spam and lemon yet the post written buy the guy you responded to gets Gold Bulbs Green checks and life preservers?

This local rating system they have in Columbus is weird. One post is marked brilliant and helpful but responses to it are marked nuts and off topic?

I can only "ASSUME" that the Columbus Chapter of the Society of the 7 Sacred Toes is very active when it comes to voting. Too bad they aren't as active when it comes to educating oneself on the reality of issues.

LMAO!

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#707 Apr 27, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Quit wearing your proclivities like a sandwich board and nobody will know or care what you are.
We tired that before. Remember the good ole days when gays were to afraid of everything? You could go to jail and convicted as a sex offender just for visiting certain bars.

We also could look forward to 'hospital stays' with ECT lobotomies and thorazine.

I get so SICK and ANGRY everytime an arrogant ASS like you makes such a statement. But wait till there's a wedding in your family and then EVERYONE better read about it in the paper!
You are a raging hypocrite. And not a very intelligent one.
Skid

Grafton, OH

#708 Apr 27, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>How is it that your post gets 3 peanuts and a spam and lemon yet the post written buy the guy you responded to gets Gold Bulbs Green checks and life preservers?
This local rating system they have in Columbus is weird. One post is marked brilliant and helpful but responses to it are marked nuts and off topic?
I can only "ASSUME" that the Columbus Chapter of the Society of the 7 Sacred Toes is very active when it comes to voting. Too bad they aren't as active when it comes to educating oneself on the reality of issues.
LMAO!
bleh

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#709 Apr 27, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an awful hypo.
Even Rehnquist would tell you that would get tossed like a big salad.
You want me to post the link to Rehnquist's opinion for you again Paco?
I know its one of your favorites, him being quite the conservative dead justice.
woof
I'd like you to post it. I'm so fed up with these people coming up with the same idiotic what ifs.

This one's moaning again about Hate Crime Laws, yet he's perfectly happy having Religion covered under them on the Federal Level as long as Washington State says he can use "religious Freedom" as a reasonable defense against charges of "religious discrimination".

That's what's being used here too. Using "religious Freedom" as a legal defense against charges of religious discrimination. It's like claiming a black man can't be a racist because he's black.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#710 Apr 27, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is the original topic of the thread. The topic of discussion changes constantly, with related and unrelated arguments coming and going.
<quoted text>
Correct. However, earlier in the thread I addressed the Hale legal situation.
<quoted text>
But I didn't make that argument; you got confused.
<quoted text>
Begging the question means the premise assumes the conclusion is true. Like religious arguments that say the bible is the word of god therefore there is a god. So you beg the question all the time. However, I did not; if you want to claim i did you'll need to be specific.
Misunderstanding statistics is not a logical fallacy. It is just ignorance. You misunderstand statistics all the time in your religious claims.
A strawman argument is setting up a false caricature of the actual argument that is easy to knock down and then claim victory over the opponent. That is what you did, not me.
BTW, Sagan was a astronomer, not a logician. But he would have taken you to the cleaners.
<quoted text>
You think those were thoughts?
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/balone...

Sagan, yes, an astronomer. But he didn't get there without applying a lot of logic and disciplined thought.

You think your post was relevant?
Skid

Grafton, OH

#711 Apr 27, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>We tired that before. Remember the good ole days when gays were to afraid of everything? You could go to jail and convicted as a sex offender just for visiting certain bars.
We also could look forward to 'hospital stays' with ECT lobotomies and thorazine.
I get so SICK and ANGRY everytime an arrogant ASS like you makes such a statement. But wait till there's a wedding in your family and then EVERYONE better read about it in the paper!
You are a raging hypocrite. And not a very intelligent one.
burp
IRYW

Malvern, PA

#712 Apr 27, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<
Sagan, yes, an astronomer. But he didn't get there without applying a lot of logic and disciplined thought.
You don't read very well. I acknowledged that and pointed out he would have taken your arguments apart. you didn't even understand the logical fallacies you were trying to describe. LOL
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
You think your post was relevant?
I know it was. You think you aren't wasting perfectly good oxygen?

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#713 Apr 27, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
This is a church and not a private enterprise and has the constitutional prerogative to live by the tenets of its faith. If the teacher wants to acknowledge a gay partner, perhaps he should seek employment in a public school. Churches should have the right to insist that its members and employees follow and not flout the tenets. If this were a public school, he would have the right to sue.
Glad to see you back my friend. And for the most part I'd agree with you. But it's not as cut and dried as you say.

For one thing this is about a WOMAN not a "he". She has been employed by the school for 19 years. The school ALSO has a contact with the City, there fore the Church SHOULD be bound by any rules the city makes.

If you remember back when we were on the Philadelphia Boy Scout Rent fight threads, I agreed with you that if the city agreed to give the BSA rent at that rate for that long it should NOT then try to raise the rent in an effort to get the BSA to comply with the city's anti-discrimination law.

That isn't the case here. It's apparent that this woman and her partner were already known to most the community. IT was the listing in her mother's obituary of her partner that spurred ONE PARENT to complain.

Keep in mind that R.C.C. dogma says it's OK to BE gay or lesbian. It's the ACT of homosexuality that is immoral. As far as I'm concerned I'm going by what my Mom always said. If you aren't standing there watching while they do it you don't know if they did anything.(Mom had 7 children)

The poster 'tip' is of the opinion that since her partner was mentioned then they have to be "doing the nasty". My response to them was that when my Mom died and I was listed along with my brother and sisters did that mean I was having sex with my brother or sisters?

With all due respect old friend, I'm seeing a frightening trend lately. People are being fired for something that has nothing to do with job performance. Facebook posts and Twitter tweets. Now listing in obituaries? I shouldn't be surprised though when I remember there are people who want to ban the word "gay" in schools.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#714 Apr 27, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Kinda sorta. Binitarianism appeared within a hundred years, with the stage set in Antioch, but largely from Alexandrian origins. It was developed further over the next century in Asia minor, especially in Cappadocia, where Trinitarianism was codified and expounded most systematically. About a century later, the Nicene councils were composed largely of those who followed that teaching. Other "bishops" were discouraged from attending, or simply not informed of the Council. One main opponent was poisoned.
The root of such heresies is to be found in the diversion of focus from the message of Yeshua onto his person.
Thanks for all the info. I know I sort of simplified things but I'm glad you didn't get discouraged by others on here and still post useful information.

Since I'm already off topic somewhat allow me to also address a previous post of yours. Thank you for your help in my defense when I was ridiculed for posting an article that mentioned H.L. Mencken. The respondent simply focused on Mencken name and ridiculed me because of the man he was; completely ignoring the fact I was actually quoting an article by Davidson Loehr.

You and I both know Mencken was a real piece of work. I hope you found that respondent's snarky reply to me as ironic as I did considering Mencken was the Rush Limbaugh of his day!

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#715 Apr 27, 2013
Zoe wrote:
If you don't agree with the doctrine of the Catholic Church, why send your kids there? Plenty of empty seats at the Columbus Public Schools!
Oddly the Catholic Church says BEING a Homosexual or Lesbian ISN'T Immoral. It's having sex with the same sex that is "immoral".

All I see here is someone listing a non blood related person as a family member in an obituary. I doubt the ONE PARENT who complained saw these two women having sex.

Carla Hill was fired because of something written in the newspaper about her family. NOT for doing anything "IMMORAL".

BTW The R.C.C has records of "sacred unions" it performed for same sex couples all through the middle ages.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#716 Apr 27, 2013
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe he kept it quiet for that long. Just a speculation and I will qualify it as such.
From the reports I've seen her partner was known for some time. They didn't "flaunt it". I agree with Snyper. The fact that she is so close to retirement makes me suspicious.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#717 Apr 27, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Of course she did. She signed a contract every year promising to live by the rules set down by the diocese. She would have cruised until she retired if not for the obituary. Hell, everyone could figure she was gay...just look at her. But that's not enough to get in trouble. The obit was.
FINALLY you admit it wasn't because she did anything immoral!

Do you agree with the firings that have been going on over the last few years because of what people put on their Facebook page?

She was fired for something that had NO IMPACT on her job.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#718 Apr 27, 2013
oops "...admit it, she was fired for..."

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