Gay Catholic-school teacher's firing raises questions

May 6, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Columbus Dispatch

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Dan

Omaha, NE

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#22
May 8, 2013
 

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-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Do you apply the same standard to the Koran?
To be fair, it wasn't a Muslim school involved.

My big problem with the type of argument Cujo presents is that it assumes a moral high ground ("bigotry", "intolerance") while blithely ignoring the transgression on Hale's part.

She signed the contract. She took money from them for 19 years; now that they did something that isn't what she wanted to happen, all of a sudden she's a champion of SSM or some such. As long as they were paying her, it was cool. When they stopped, now it's a moral outrage.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

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#23
May 8, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Same-sex behaviors receive a Darwinian "F" as well.
Even the barnyard knows better.
According to whom? Are you Darwin? Your perspective on things like evolution, survival, etc. seem to be rather narrow if you think all behavior must lead to procreation or it serves no purpose. Humans and "the barnyard" all engage in behaviors that you don't fully understand, or that you may think are yucky. Your personal ignorance and prejudice do not qualify you to grade behaviors or deem yourself as one who "knows better."
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#24
May 8, 2013
 

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Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
According to whom? Are you Darwin? Your perspective on things like evolution, survival, etc. seem to be rather narrow if you think all behavior must lead to procreation or it serves no purpose. Humans and "the barnyard" all engage in behaviors that you don't fully understand, or that you may think are yucky. Your personal ignorance and prejudice do not qualify you to grade behaviors or deem yourself as one who "knows better."
Most animal behavior is instinctively directed towards propagation, you'll allow.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#25
May 9, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
?
Firing someone who violates an employment contract is now bigotry?
In this case, yes. It's not about what's in the contract, it's why it's in the contract.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#26
May 9, 2013
 

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Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
In this case, yes. It's not about what's in the contract, it's why it's in the contract.
It's in the contract as a term of agreement-that's the "why". Anyone can put any stipulation they want in a contract. You aren't party to the contract, so you it's not subject to your opprobrium.

....and Hale signed the contract.

So, she's bound by it.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#27
May 9, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, it wasn't a Muslim school involved.
My big problem with the type of argument Cujo presents is that it assumes a moral high ground ("bigotry", "intolerance") while blithely ignoring the transgression on Hale's part.
She signed the contract. She took money from them for 19 years; now that they did something that isn't what she wanted to happen, all of a sudden she's a champion of SSM or some such. As long as they were paying her, it was cool. When they stopped, now it's a moral outrage.
The definition of bigotry is to show or have intolerance towards others, if their beliefs go against your own beliefs. Your not disagreeing with my definition, you disagree with what bigotry actually means.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#28
May 9, 2013
 
Correction, "you're"
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#29
May 9, 2013
 

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Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
The definition of bigotry is to show or have intolerance towards others, if their beliefs go against your own beliefs. Your not disagreeing with my definition, you disagree with what bigotry actually means.
It's your misapplication of the term that I take issue with.

I disagree that firing someone over a contract violation is an act of bigotry.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#30
May 9, 2013
 

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Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
In this case, yes. It's not about what's in the contract, it's why it's in the contract.
If Hale had an objection to church teaching on homosexuality for any of the 19 years she taught at the school, she could have resigned or not renewed her contract.

She didn't do it.

Assuredly, her sexual orientation was known to her fellow teachers, at the least and quite likely some if not most of her students. She didn't get fired.

She did make her quasi - marital status public knowledge. She did that herself. As a consequence, she got fired as it conflicted with the terms the employment contract she agreed to (repeatedly agreed to, as these contracts are typically renewed annually.)

Who has inflicted what injustice on Hale? She willingly participated in every operative aspect of this situation.

Dan

Omaha, NE

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#31
May 9, 2013
 

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Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
In this case, yes. It's not about what's in the contract, it's why it's in the contract.
Being a homosexual in a committed monogamous relationship does not exempt one from contractual obligations.

Welcome to equality under the law.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#32
May 10, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
It's your misapplication of the term that I take issue with.
I disagree that firing someone over a contract violation is an act of bigotry.
I didn't say they didn't have the right to, they did. Just because they had the right to, does not make it any less bigotted. Bigotry isn't against the law, depending on the action taken, that is.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#33
May 10, 2013
 

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Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say they didn't have the right to, they did. Just because they had the right to, does not make it any less bigotted. Bigotry isn't against the law, depending on the action taken, that is.
How, again, is firing someone over terms of a contract "bigotry" in any sense of the word?

Recall again that a contract is a mutual agreement.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#34
May 13, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
How, again, is firing someone over terms of a contract "bigotry" in any sense of the word?
Recall again that a contract is a mutual agreement.
They took action against someone, for being nothing more than themselves, based on their belief system. Just because it's in a contract, doesn't mean they had to act on it.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#35
May 13, 2013
 

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Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
They took action against someone, for being nothing more than themselves, based on their belief system. Just because it's in a contract, doesn't mean they had to act on it.
They took action as Hale breeched the terms of their mutual agreement. She may have done it because she wanted to "be herself" or some such Oprah-esque whim, but she breached the contract.

If they had not paid Hale during the term of the agreement, Hale was protected by the contract and her rights under the contract would assure her of a remedy.

Is it your position that homosexuals are not bound by contract law?

I thought that equality under the law was something you would be in favor of.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#36
May 13, 2013
 

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Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
They took action as Hale breeched the terms of their mutual agreement. She may have done it because she wanted to "be herself" or some such Oprah-esque whim, but she breached the contract.
If they had not paid Hale during the term of the agreement, Hale was protected by the contract and her rights under the contract would assure her of a remedy.
Is it your position that homosexuals are not bound by contract law?
I thought that equality under the law was something you would be in favor of.
Again, I never said they don't have the right to fire her, based on her contractual agreement. Quit trying to twist my words. You asked how the firing was an act of bigotry, and I explained my position to you, and my reasons for it.

I don't care if you agree with it or not. If you take issue with the definition of bigotry, that's not my problem.

And by the way, is there any other contract, anywhere in the united states, that states a person cannot be straight, otherwise the may be fired? Since you brought up equality.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#37
May 13, 2013
 
Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I never said they don't have the right to fire her, based on her contractual agreement. Quit trying to twist my words. You asked how the firing was an act of bigotry, and I explained my position to you, and my reasons for it.
I don't care if you agree with it or not. If you take issue with the definition of bigotry, that's not my problem.
And by the way, is there any other contract, anywhere in the united states, that states a person cannot be straight, otherwise the may be fired? Since you brought up equality.
Then what are you going on and on about?

I take issue with you application of "bigotry" in this matter.

They had the right to fire her, and she, herself, gave them a reason to fire her.

I don't think that there's a line in that contract that says "we'll fire you if we find out you're gay". If there WAS that line, Hale shouldn't have signed the contract.

See? All goes back to Hale.

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