Reader's Dream Course

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Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#102
Feb 22, 2013
 

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Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
dismissed....self defense....next case
It won't be dismissed.

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#103
Feb 22, 2013
 

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Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
says the person on the wrong side of everything, keeping her record perfect.
evidence submitted to court from defense showing hospital pictures of wounds of a beating that occurred in a 10 minute period between a 911 call and police arrival.
opening statement from defense:
it is best be judged by 12, than carried by 6. A couple more bangs on the head; and this would have had opposite reaction. We would be speaking about George Zimmerman's murder by Trayvon Martin.
Defense lawyer is holding pics in hand; and jury is watching and listening.
Prosecution spins a story with no evidence; but just what they think.
Case dismissed.
One problem with your scenario, there RS. There is no hospital picture. Zimmerman repeatedly turned down opportunities for further medical treatment after the first triage and clean-up by the EMT's. So--while the defense likes to talk to the public about a broken nose and concussion, these things have never been substantiated medically.

Second problem with your scenario is that while there is some evidence of non-life-threatening injuries (small laceration to the back of the scalp and a nose bleed), these injuries somehow came into being without an DNA transfer from Zimmerman to Trayvon's hands, or the sleeves or cuffs of his clothing. Particularly amazing given Zimmerman's graphic description of Trayvon leaning his full weight and both hands on his nose and mouth in an attempt to smother him and keep him from crying out (and despite there being no pause in the screaming recorded by 911 that Zimmerman claims was him).

Further, the injury to the back of the head (a laceration) is not consistent with repeated head banging against the concrete, which would be far more likely to result in bruising, immediate swelling and abrasions (a laceration is a clean cut). And the trail of blood running from that injury is inconsistent with someone lying or their back, or even upright. It would have required a face-downwards positioning--such as being atop another person in a fight.

Then we have a couple of eye-witnesses who attest to Zimmerman being on top.

And we have the lack of Trayvon's fingerprints or DNA on the gun--despite testimony that Z. shot him in a struggle for the weapon.

Now, then.

You were saying.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#104
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
tip's perpetual question has to do with what rights black people currently lack.
One right is the right to be free of suspicion simply because they are black. We saw that in the arrest of Henry Louis Gates...
Again, you should try being informed instead of just opinionated. The facts are available from the actual police report [at the Smoking Gun]. The police responded to a call from a neighbor who witnessed two men [Gates and his cab driver] who appeared to be breaking into the front door of the Gates home, which had already recently been broken into. The report details the incident:

- Gates didn't come home "to find his front door jammed"; he knew beforehand that it was jammed. Gates' residence - by his own admission - had been the target of a previous break-in attempt (the reason for the door being jammed).
- After talking to the woman who reported the possible break-in, Crowley radioed to request additional backup.
- Crowley's first communication with Gates was to ask him to step onto the porch to talk to him, to which Gates responded, "no, I will not."
- Gates then demanded to know Crowley's identity,' to which Crowley responded, "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police," and that he was "investigating the report of a break-in in progress" at the residence.
- Gates' immediate response to Crowley's explanation was, "Why? Because I am a black man in America?"
- Crowley attempted to proceed with his investigation, amidst continued yelling and accusations of racism by Gates. Crowley asked if anyone else was in the residence, to which Gates replied that it was none of Crowley's business.
- Crowley requested that Gates show him photo identification to prove that he resided at the location. Gates initially refused, demanded identification from Crowley, and then complied with Crowley's request by producing a Harvard identification card.
- Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, Crowley radioed to request the presence of Harvard police.
- As Crowley prepared to leave, Gates continued yelling at him, issuing racist accusations at him, told him that Gates wasn't "someone to mess with", and asked him a second and third time for Crowley's name.
- Officer Figueroa arrived at some time near this point, and overheard much, of the incident.
- Crowley then told Gates that he was leaving the residence, and that if he had anything further to say, that he could say it outside. According to Crowley, Gates' tirade was so loud in the kitchen and foyer that Crowley had difficulty transmitting pertinent information via his radio.
- Gates responded, "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside."
- Crowley exited the residence to find several Cambridge Police officers, Harvard Police officers, the original caller, and approximately seven unidentified onlookers.
- Gates followed Crowley outside of the house.
- As Crowley descended the steps to the sidewalk, Gates continued yelling at Crowley, hurling racial accusations at him, and telling him that Crowley had not heard the last of Gates.
- Crowley warned Gates not once, but twice, that his behavior had become disorderly, and to calm down.
- Gates ignored Crowley's warnings, and continued his outburst.
- It was at this point, after two warnings, that Crowley placed Gates under arrest.
- Gates was initially handcuffed with his hands behind his back, but immediately complained that the handcuffs were too tight, and that he was "disabled" and would fall without his cane.
- Crowley immediately had Officer Ivey handcuff Gates with his hands in front, while Crowley found Gates' cane inside his house.
- Crowley asked Gates if he would be comfortable with letting one of the police officers secure the front door of the house, which was open. Gates responded that the door could not be secured, having been damaged during a previous break-in attempt at the house.

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#105
Feb 22, 2013
 
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
It won't be dismissed.
I think the big question right now is whether the defense will even take the risk of presenting at an immunity (self-defense) hearing. Attorney O'Mara tried to get the judge to roll the two together--which I believe that she is unlike to go for, apparently not allowed under Florida law.

Based on the evidence, they are not likely to win immunity, which means that they have to then turn around and present a case to a jury who knows that the self-defense case was lost.

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#106
Feb 22, 2013
 
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
only one per month?
one per decade is one to many.
break into my garage once a month and see what happens. I am fairly sharp; and on the 4th or 5th break in a trap would be in place. I would have learned the lesson taught by then; and make sure it ended.
Less than one per month across the neighborhood. And no reason to believe that they were all the same person, and even less to believe that Trayvon Martin had anything to do with any of them.

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#107
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
You were saying.
What we have all been saying is that, contrary to your delusions, you do not have all of the facts pertaining to, nor are you the prosecutor, judge, jury or executioner in the Zimmerman case.

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#108
Feb 22, 2013
 

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Spookhere F trolls wrote:
<quoted text>
Break in once and they will become coyote food.
Well, Zimmerman's strategy is a little more complex.

Break in and he will take out a random stranger.
Spookhere F trolls

Clayton, MI

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#109
Feb 22, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Zimmerman's strategy is a little more complex.
Break in and he will take out a random stranger.
Trayvon was just two legged vermin. Nuckle tattoos drug using and dealing. Zimmerman did the world a favor by exterminating that parasite. I just hope trayvon hadn't bred some skank, those are genes that need removed from the pool.

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#110
Feb 22, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you should try being informed instead of just opinionated. The facts are available from the actual police report [at the Smoking Gun]. The police responded to a call from a neighbor who witnessed two men [Gates and his cab driver] who appeared to be breaking into the front door of the Gates home, which had already recently been broken into. The report details the incident:
- Gates didn't come home "to find his front door jammed"; he knew beforehand that it was jammed. Gates' residence - by his own admission - had been the target of a previous break-in attempt (the reason for the door being jammed).
- After talking to the woman who reported the possible break-in, Crowley radioed to request additional backup.
- Crowley's first communication with Gates was to ask him to step onto the porch to talk to him, to which Gates responded, "no, I will not."
- Gates then demanded to know Crowley's identity,' to which Crowley responded, "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police," and that he was "investigating the report of a break-in in progress" at the residence.
- Gates' immediate response to Crowley's explanation was, "Why? Because I am a black man in America?"
- Crowley attempted to proceed with his investigation, amidst continued yelling and accusations of racism by Gates. Crowley asked if anyone else was in the residence, to which Gates replied that it was none of Crowley's business.
- Crowley requested that Gates show him photo identification to prove that he resided at the location. Gates initially refused, demanded identification from Crowley, and then complied with Crowley's request by producing a Harvard identification card.
- Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, Crowley radioed to request the presence of Harvard police.
- As Crowley prepared to leave, Gates continued yelling at him, issuing racist accusations at him, told him that Gates wasn't "someone to mess with", and asked him a second and third time for Crowley's name.
- Officer Figueroa arrived at some time near this point, and overheard much, of the incident.
- Crowley then told Gates that he was leaving the residence, and that if he had anything further to say, that he could say it outside. According to Crowley, Gates' tirade was so loud in the kitchen and foyer that Crowley had difficulty transmitting pertinent information via his radio.
- Gates responded, "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside."
- Crowley exited the residence to find several Cambridge Police officers, Harvard Police officers, the original caller, and approximately seven unidentified onlookers.
- Gates followed Crowley outside of the house.
- As Crowley descended the steps to the sidewalk, Gates continued yelling at Crowley, hurling racial accusations at him, and telling him that Crowley had not heard the last of Gates.
- Crowley warned Gates not once, but twice, that his behavior had become disorderly, and to calm down.
- Gates ignored Crowley's warnings, and continued his outburst.
- It was at this point, after two warnings, that Crowley placed Gates under arrest.
- Gates was initially handcuffed with his hands behind his back, but immediately complained that the handcuffs were too tight, and that he was "disabled" and would fall without his cane.
- Crowley immediately had Officer Ivey handcuff Gates with his hands in front, while Crowley found Gates' cane inside his house.
- Crowley asked Gates if he would be comfortable with letting one of the police officers secure the front door of the house, which was open. Gates responded that the door could not be secured, having been damaged during a previous break-in attempt at the house.
As soon as Gates presented ID, the appropriate response from the police should have been, "sorry to have bothered you, sir. Have a nice night."

“Old Right”

Since: Jan 13

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#111
Feb 22, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
What the flock is a Diversity Person?
Don't respond to that guy, he's like Loran Eberly

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#112
Feb 22, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
What we have all been saying is that, contrary to your delusions, you do not have all of the facts pertaining to, nor are you the prosecutor, judge, jury or executioner in the Zimmerman case.
Well, everything that I have presented is factual evidence.

RS was presenting evidence that does not exist.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#113
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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As soon as Gates presented ID, the appropriate response from the police should have been, "sorry to have bothered you, sir. Have a nice night."
Reading comprehension problems...again?
Gates first refused to offer his ID, but as soon as he complied, the officer prepared to leave.

Sadly, Mr. Gates elected to disrupt the peace at that point.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#114
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, everything that I have presented is factual evidence.
RS was presenting evidence that does not exist.
"Factual evidence" which may or may not be discounted at trial.
You don't have a clue.
You're just as hopped up as Louis Gates to create a race-based incident where one does not exist.

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

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#115
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
As soon as Gates presented ID, the appropriate response from the police should have been, "sorry to have bothered you, sir. Have a nice night."
What part of "disorderly conduct" eludes you, Reader? Gates followed the cop out of the house and begged to be arrested. Act like that toward a cop, especially with onlookers there, and it doesn't matter what color you are, what color the cop is, or whether you're in Cambridge, Carson or Colorado Springs...you're going downtown.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

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#116
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
One problem with your scenario, there RS. There is no hospital picture. Zimmerman repeatedly turned down opportunities for further medical treatment after the first triage and clean-up by the EMT's. So--while the defense likes to talk to the public about a broken nose and concussion, these things have never been substantiated medically.
Second problem with your scenario is that while there is some evidence of non-life-threatening injuries (small laceration to the back of the scalp and a nose bleed), these injuries somehow came into being without an DNA transfer from Zimmerman to Trayvon's hands, or the sleeves or cuffs of his clothing. Particularly amazing given Zimmerman's graphic description of Trayvon leaning his full weight and both hands on his nose and mouth in an attempt to smother him and keep him from crying out (and despite there being no pause in the screaming recorded by 911 that Zimmerman claims was him).
Further, the injury to the back of the head (a laceration) is not consistent with repeated head banging against the concrete, which would be far more likely to result in bruising, immediate swelling and abrasions (a laceration is a clean cut). And the trail of blood running from that injury is inconsistent with someone lying or their back, or even upright. It would have required a face-downwards positioning--such as being atop another person in a fight.
Then we have a couple of eye-witnesses who attest to Zimmerman being on top.
And we have the lack of Trayvon's fingerprints or DNA on the gun--despite testimony that Z. shot him in a struggle for the weapon.
Now, then.
You were saying.
if if's and butts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas everyday.

self defense......case dismissed

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#117
Feb 22, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading comprehension problems...again?
Gates first refused to offer his ID, but as soon as he complied, the officer prepared to leave.
Sadly, Mr. Gates elected to disrupt the peace at that point.
As soon as he complied, the officer called campus police for backup.

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#118
Feb 22, 2013
 
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
if if's and butts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas everyday.
self defense......case dismissed
What an intelligent comeback.

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#119
Feb 22, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
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"Factual evidence" which may or may not be discounted at trial.
You don't have a clue.
You're just as hopped up as Louis Gates to create a race-based incident where one does not exist.
Not too likely to be discounted and I'll tell you why. Z. managed to blow through over $300,000 in his defense fund before his lawyer (working for free) hired a single expert witness. Course, the attorney did get about $50,000 worth of office improvements--in the form of hardware, software, server and so forth. And a small crew of (volunteer) interns got some pizza.

AND, since he didn't pay off his security company for services over and above what they recommended, it's not too likely that any experts are going to join the team for anything less than cash on the barrel head.

So--good luck with discounting the evidence.

Tell George to send them some more cash. It doesn't look like NBC wants to settle quickly out of court for cash, like they hoped.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#120
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
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As soon as he complied, the officer called campus police for backup.
Officer Crowley called on the Harvard police to verify Gates' residence, as a Harvard ID card does not display an address.

Nice try, though.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#121
Feb 22, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Not too likely to be discounted and I'll tell you why. Z. managed to blow through over $300,000 in his defense fund before his lawyer (working for free) hired a single expert witness. Course, the attorney did get about $50,000 worth of office improvements--in the form of hardware, software, server and so forth. And a small crew of (volunteer) interns got some pizza.
AND, since he didn't pay off his security company for services over and above what they recommended, it's not too likely that any experts are going to join the team for anything less than cash on the barrel head.
So--good luck with discounting the evidence.
Tell George to send them some more cash. It doesn't look like NBC wants to settle quickly out of court for cash, like they hoped.
Childish speculation.
I stand by my comment that you don't have a clue.

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