Welcome to the Police State

Welcome to the Police State

Posted in the Columbus Forum

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Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#1 Jun 6, 2013
Welcome to the era of Bush-Obama, a 16-year span of U.S. history that will be remembered for an unprecedented erosion of civil liberties and a disregard for transparency. On the war against a tactic—terrorism—and its insidious fallout, the United States could have skipped the 2008 election.

It made little difference.

Despite his clear and popular promises to the contrary, President Obama has not shifted the balance between security and freedom to a more natural state—one not blinded by worst fears and tarred by power grabs. If anything, things have gotten worse.

Killing civilians and U.S. citizens via drone.

Seizing telephone records at the Associated Press in violation of Justice Department guidelines.

Accusing a respected Fox News reporter of engaging in a conspiracy to commit treason for doing his job.

Detaining terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, despite promises to end the ill-considered Bush policy.

Even the IRS scandal, while not a matter of foreign policy, strikes at the heart of growing concerns among Americans that their privacy is government's playpen.

And now this: The Guardian newspaper reports that the National Security Agency is collecting telephone records of tens of millions of customers of one of the nation's largest phone companies, Verizon.

If the story is accurate, the action appears to be legal. The order was signed by a judge from a secret court that oversees domestic surveillance. It may also be necessary; U.S. intelligence needs every advantage it can get over the nation's enemies.

But for several reasons the news is chilling.

Verizon probably isn't the only company coughing up its documents. Odds are incredibly strong that the government is prying into your telephone records today.
Issued in April, the NSA order "could represent the broadest surveillance order known to have been issued," according to The Washington Post. "It also would confirm long-standing suspicions of civil liberties advocates about the sweeping nature of U.S. surveillance through commercial carries under laws passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."
This appears to be a "rubber stamp," order, reissued every few months since 2001. As is the case with all government programs, the systematic snooping into your telephone records is unlikely to ever expire without public outcry.
Congress is full of hypocrites. Liberals who criticized Bush are less incensed with Obama. Republicans who bowed to Bush are now blasting Obama. The next time your congressional representative criticizes Obama for curbing civil liberties, ask if he or she would vote to repeal the Patriot Act, the post-911 law that handed unfettered power to the intelligence and military bureaucracies. Most won't.
The Bush-Obama White House hates transparency. President George W. Bush and his vice president, Dick Cheney, were justifiably criticized by Democrats (none more successfully so than Obama himself) for their penchant for secrecy. Obama promised that he would run history's most transparent administration. By almost any measure, on domestic and well as foreign policies, Obama has broken that promise.

It is the lack of transparency that is most galling about the security versus civil liberties debate under Obama, because it shows his lack of faith in the public. Americans know a high level of secrecy and dirty work is needed to keep them safe. Most trust their president. Many approve of his job performance.

Still, they expect and deserve an open discussion about how to fight terrorism without undermining the Constitution.

Obama started that conversation with a recent address on the drone program, media leaks and the need to move American off a constant war footing. It was a compelling and well-considered argument for the balance he is claiming to strike.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/welco...
Neutral Party

Louisville, KY

#2 Jun 8, 2013
Well said and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

They laughed when they said Obama has socialistic tendencies yet something comes out everyday to prove him right.

I see similarities between Nazi Germany and America. Bad economy and a person with an ability to speak well and sell a vision that is steering us in a course that ultimately destroy us, possible the world.
yawn whatever

Reynoldsburg, OH

#3 Jun 8, 2013
pffft... what's the big deal?

If you obey the law you've got nothing to worry about.

Since: Sep 08

Neon City Oh.

#4 Jun 8, 2013
We tried to tell everybody that the patriot act was evil. Nobody wanted to listen.
If your candidate for any Washington office does not support doing away with the patriot act, then your candidate is no better that all the others.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#5 Jun 8, 2013
WDRussell wrote:
We tried to tell everybody that the patriot act was evil. Nobody wanted to listen.
If your candidate for any Washington office does not support doing away with the patriot act, then your candidate is no better that all the others.
12 years ago, anyone who was against the Patriot Act was subjected to their knee-jerk cries of Anti-Americanism. Now, if you support the guy who is using that law, you are subjected to the knee-jerk cries of Anti-Americanism. I would say that they are late to the game learning about what the Patriot Act was all about, but I think it's much less than that. If Obama proposed mandatory prayer 3 times a day in public school they would suddenly discover the First Amendment.
just asking

Reynoldsburg, OH

#6 Jun 8, 2013
Can we have transparency and a high level of secrecy and dirty work at the same time?
shanikwah

Middletown, OH

#7 Jun 8, 2013
All this spying and they can't catch a couple of Chechen muzzie school boys. Assuming they wound WANT to do something to harm cultural relations.... We are a long way down the rabbit hole.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#8 Jun 8, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
12 years ago, anyone who was against the Patriot Act was subjected to their knee-jerk cries of Anti-Americanism. Now, if you support the guy who is using that law, you are subjected to the knee-jerk cries of Anti-Americanism. I would say that they are late to the game learning about what the Patriot Act was all about, but I think it's much less than that. If Obama proposed mandatory prayer 3 times a day in public school they would suddenly discover the First Amendment.
Keep omitting the fact that PRISM is a perverted offshoot of FISA. FISA was introduced in the Senate by your hero Ted Kennedy in 1977 and signed by St. Jimmy of Plains in 1978.
And yes, we would scream our heads off if Obama proposed mandatory prayer...we know damn well it would involve ass-lifting to some false creature called "Allah."
the beloved yeah baby

Columbus, OH

#9 Jun 8, 2013
shanikwah wrote:
All this spying and they can't catch a couple of Chechen muzzie school boys. Assuming they wound WANT to do something to harm cultural relations.... We are a long way down the rabbit hole.
Why catch those whom you've hired? Well if you catch them before they do the job you hired them to do then your false flag operation to ban YT's reloading powder doesn't quite have as much ooomph. Moreover, why listen to the free Russians' warnings about these two when your $billion system is unplugged or bypassed. And while you're at it give the bad guys a cool$100Gs for the privilege of killing your subjects/ wage slaves/debt donkeys
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#10 Jun 8, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Keep omitting the fact that PRISM is a perverted offshoot of FISA. FISA was introduced in the Senate by your hero Ted Kennedy in 1977 and signed by St. Jimmy of Plains in 1978.
And yes, we would scream our heads off if Obama proposed mandatory prayer...we know damn well it would involve ass-lifting to some false creature called "Allah."
As usual, you avoid the question. Where was your outrage before 2013? You should also check and see when PRISM was introduced and read a little bit about the history of FISA. Your simple statement that it was introduced by Ted Kennedy tells us nothing about why the law was enacted and how the law has been amended in the last 10 or so years.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#11 Jun 8, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, you avoid the question. Where was your outrage before 2013? You should also check and see when PRISM was introduced and read a little bit about the history of FISA. Your simple statement that it was introduced by Ted Kennedy tells us nothing about why the law was enacted and how the law has been amended in the last 10 or so years.
Nobody knew about PRISM until The Guardian ran the story three days ago. Is that too hard for you to understand? What PRISM has been doing since 2009 is on your boy's head. But you're determined to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat for this perversion of the Constitution when in fact your people created it 35 years ago and your foul excuse for a "president" campaigned to end any of the alleged improprieties of the Bush era and instead enhanced and expanded them. Add this to what we know about his abuse of citizens using the IRS and you don't have a leg to stand on.
Big Johnson

Columbus, OH

#12 Jun 8, 2013
If only we had elected a Republican!

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#13 Jun 8, 2013
Big Johnson wrote:
If only we had elected a Republican!
If we had done that in 1976, we would have probably missed out on FISA, PRISM, the CRA of 1977, the Islamic takeover of Iran, the Iranian Hostage Crisis, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Desert One, the Iran-Iraq War, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, 9/11, 7/7 in the UK, the Bali bombing, the housing collapse, TARP, the auto bailout, the "Stimulus" (X2), the Boston Marathon bombing...
Every single one of those policies and events originated courtesy of the Carter administration.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#14 Jun 8, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Nobody knew about PRISM until The Guardian ran the story three days ago. Is that too hard for you to understand? What PRISM has been doing since 2009 is on your boy's head. But you're determined to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat for this perversion of the Constitution when in fact your people created it 35 years ago and your foul excuse for a "president" campaigned to end any of the alleged improprieties of the Bush era and instead enhanced and expanded them. Add this to what we know about his abuse of citizens using the IRS and you don't have a leg to stand on.
See, this is what you do all the time. You think you get to tell other people what they think. You don't. I have not "tried to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat" for any of this. I have very simply stated that until this week, you were a big fan of the Patriot Act and the War on Terror. Now suddenly, you are a card carrying member of the ACLU.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15 Jun 8, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>If we had done that in 1976, we would have probably missed out on FISA, PRISM, the CRA of 1977, the Islamic takeover of Iran, the Iranian Hostage Crisis, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Desert One, the Iran-Iraq War, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, 9/11, 7/7 in the UK, the Bali bombing, the housing collapse, TARP, the auto bailout, the "Stimulus" (X2), the Boston Marathon bombing...
Every single one of those policies and events originated courtesy of the Carter administration.
Now that is funny. It is wrong to suggest that Dubya has any culpability for anything that has happened in the last 10 years because by God it's all Carter's fault.
Wait what

Dublin, OH

#16 Jun 8, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Nobody knew about PRISM until The Guardian ran the story three days ago. Is that too hard for you to understand? What PRISM has been doing since 2009 is on your boy's head. But you're determined to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat for this perversion of the Constitution when in fact your people created it 35 years ago and your foul excuse for a "president" campaigned to end any of the alleged improprieties of the Bush era and instead enhanced and expanded them. Add this to what we know about his abuse of citizens using the IRS and you don't have a leg to stand on.
Ron Paul did. The late night radio "conspiracy theorists" did. Unfortunately, they were deemed as nuts. It is no wonder that so many around the world think the average American is ignorant.
Wait what

Dublin, OH

#17 Jun 8, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
See, this is what you do all the time. You think you get to tell other people what they think. You don't. I have not "tried to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat" for any of this. I have very simply stated that until this week, you were a big fan of the Patriot Act and the War on Terror. Now suddenly, you are a card carrying member of the ACLU.
Could you please provide some links, please? I must have missed those posts because for the life of me, I can't recall anyone here being gung-ho about the Patriot Act.
Che Sux

Columbus, OH

#18 Jun 8, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
See, this is what you do all the time. You think you get to tell other people what they think. You don't. I have not "tried to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat" for any of this. I have very simply stated that until this week, you were a big fan of the Patriot Act and the War on Terror. Now suddenly, you are a card carrying member of the ACLU.
See, this is where you and George are different. He can change from week to week while you on the other hand remain constant. You sucked last week, you suck this week, and you will continue to suck for eternity.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#19 Jun 8, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you please provide some links, please? I must have missed those posts because for the life of me, I can't recall anyone here being gung-ho about the Patriot Act.
Links to 10 years ago? Sure.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#20 Jun 8, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
See, this is what you do all the time. You think you get to tell other people what they think. You don't. I have not "tried to blame everyone who isn't a Democrat" for any of this. I have very simply stated that until this week, you were a big fan of the Patriot Act and the War on Terror. Now suddenly, you are a card carrying member of the ACLU.
Show me where I have ever championed the Patriot Act, little girl.
As for the War on Terror, you bet...dead Muzzies make this entire planet a safer place...BUT if they are US citizens, they are entitled to due process and I have always said that.
Your lies don't work here.

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