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101 - 120 of 174 Comments Last updated Jan 26, 2014
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#104
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Per Justice Blackmun's definition, "health" of the mother includes emotional/psychological upset. In other words, if she is distraught that her husband/boyfriend left her during her third trimester, and she is now unwilling to carry his child to term...a physician may legally abort the baby for the "health" of the mother.
"We have some experience with late terminations; about 10,000 patients between 24 and 36 weeks and something like 800 fetal anomalies between 26 and 36 weeks in the past 5 years."
-- George Tiller, at National Abortion Federation Convention, 1995
IOW, the remaining 9,200 abortions were related to the "health" of the mother, per Tiller's judgment.
Except that isn't the law. Why don't you look at Ohio's law on late term abortions and then get back to us about your hypothetical.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#105
Mar 5, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite. It is my understanding that states are permitted (and many do) to set in place bans beyond the point of viability.
States may not ban late term abortions performed to save the life or "health" of the mother...in the sole opinion of the doctor.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#106
Mar 5, 2013
 
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that isn't the law. Why don't you look at Ohio's law on late term abortions and then get back to us about your hypothetical.
Wrong...again.
Exception for life and "health" of mother.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#107
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
States may not ban late term abortions performed to save the life or "health" of the mother...in the sole opinion of the doctor.
You are talking about emergency conditions and some typically severe criteria. If you are interested in how it plays out in real life, you might want to read this account of what the Santorum (yes, that Santorum) family faced: http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/...

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

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#108
Mar 5, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Enjoy!
I did! Having to hire separate people to do the cake and to decorate the cake. Coordinating this is far more difficult than I ever would have hoped. Also, far more expensive than it should be...

“animis opibusque parati”

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#109
Mar 5, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
You are talking about emergency conditions and some typically severe criteria. If you are interested in how it plays out in real life, you might want to read this account of what the Santorum (yes, that Santorum) family faced: http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/...
In a 5-yr span, Tiller confronted 9,200 cases presenting "emergency conditions"?
You and your fellow pro-aborts are the only ones to promote such lunacy.

By the way, Sister "Christian," you never answered the question concerning what Jesus would do. For example, would Jesus agree that a third trimester baby loses its humanity the moment Mom becomes emotionally distraught over its existence?

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#110
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
In a 5-yr span, Tiller confronted 9,200 cases presenting "emergency conditions"?
You and your fellow pro-aborts are the only ones to promote such lunacy.
By the way, Sister "Christian," you never answered the question concerning what Jesus would do. For example, would Jesus agree that a third trimester baby loses its humanity the moment Mom becomes emotionally distraught over its existence?
I believe your question was what would Jesus do if confronted with an unviable aborted fetus?

Sorry, tip, that's a hypothetical I don't have an answer for. After all, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead--but He did not so raise every dead person around him. God through Jeremiah raised dry bones in the desert, but does not do so on a regular basis.

I suspect that you are trying to make a point, but it eludes me, sorry.

But, you have also neglected to answer what you would have real clinicians do, with the real skills and abilities that they actually possess.

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#111
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
In a 5-yr span, Tiller confronted 9,200 cases presenting "emergency conditions"?
You and your fellow pro-aborts are the only ones to promote such lunacy.
By the way, Sister "Christian," you never answered the question concerning what Jesus would do. For example, would Jesus agree that a third trimester baby loses its humanity the moment Mom becomes emotionally distraught over its existence?
You are misconstruing. From your earlier post:

"We have some experience with late terminations; about 10,000 patients between 24 and 36 weeks and something like 800 fetal anomalies between 26 and 36 weeks in the past 5 years."

The 10,000 number refers to late 2nd and early 3rd trimester--all causes. Of those, 800 were fetal anomalies at the upper end of the scale. There is no discussion of how many were to save the life of the mother, or any other reason.

I also have to wonder, since your snippet is nearly 20 years old, what something more current might be.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#112
Mar 5, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe your question was what would Jesus do if confronted with an unviable aborted fetus?
Sorry, tip, that's a hypothetical I don't have an answer for. After all, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead--but He did not so raise every dead person around him. God through Jeremiah raised dry bones in the desert, but does not do so on a regular basis.
I suspect that you are trying to make a point, but it eludes me, sorry.
But, you have also neglected to answer what you would have real clinicians do, with the real skills and abilities that they actually possess.
Jesus would condemn those responsible for deliberately removing an otherwise healthy baby from her mother's womb -- her natural, safe home -- for the sole intent of ending her life, even when she stubbornly refuses to comply.

That fact would not elude any Christian.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#113
Mar 5, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
You are misconstruing. From your earlier post:
"We have some experience with late terminations; about 10,000 patients between 24 and 36 weeks and something like 800 fetal anomalies between 26 and 36 weeks in the past 5 years."
The 10,000 number refers to late 2nd and early 3rd trimester--all causes. Of those, 800 were fetal anomalies at the upper end of the scale. There is no discussion of how many were to save the life of the mother, or any other reason.
I also have to wonder, since your snippet is nearly 20 years old, what something more current might be.
36 weeks is not "early 3rd trimester."
Your dedication to defending Tiller is noted.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

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#114
Mar 5, 2013
 

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wondering wrote:
<quoted text>It won't be just fuel, it will be free cars.
we do that with Somali refugees now in Columbus

not sure the real number; but is is a large one.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#115
Mar 5, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong...again.
Exception for life and "health" of mother.
Do you know how "health" is defined under Ohio law? I bet you don't.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#116
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus would condemn those responsible for deliberately removing an otherwise healthy baby from her mother's womb -- her natural, safe home -- for the sole intent of ending her life, even when she stubbornly refuses to comply.
That fact would not elude any Christian.
And yet, that never happened, did it?

And what is it that you want the medical practitioners do do?

Should every abortion end with a formal statement of condemnation?

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#117
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
36 weeks is not "early 3rd trimester."
Your dedication to defending Tiller is noted.
Sorry, bad math.

I have never learned to think of pregnancy in weeks rather than months.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#118
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus would condemn those responsible for deliberately removing an otherwise healthy baby from her mother's womb -- her natural, safe home -- for the sole intent of ending her life, even when she stubbornly refuses to comply.
That fact would not elude any Christian.
I wonder if he might not pray with the woman. Or might comfort her.

But, I thought that your question had to do with the fetus--since that seemed to be the medical focus of your thinking, that there was something medical to be done that was either prohibited or not required.

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#119
Mar 5, 2013
 
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
we do that with Somali refugees now in Columbus
not sure the real number; but is is a large one.
Come back when you have a real number, then.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#120
Mar 5, 2013
 
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know how "health" is defined under Ohio law? I bet you don't.
Ohio's 2012 late-term abortion ban is embodied in ORC 2919.17, 2919.171 and 2919.18, pertinent part of 2919.17, as follows:

A) No person shall purposely perform or induce or attempt to perform or induce an abortion on a pregnant woman when the unborn child is viable.

(B)

(1) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (A) of this section that the abortion was performed or induced or attempted to be performed or induced by a physician and that the physician determined, in the physicianís good faith medical judgment, based on the facts known to the physician at that time, that either of the following applied:

(a) The unborn child was not viable.

(b) The abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman or a serious risk of the substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.

(2) No abortion shall be considered necessary under division (B)(1)(b) of this section on the basis of a claim or diagnosis that the pregnant woman will engage in conduct that would result in the pregnant womanís death or a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman or based on any reason related to the womanís mental health.

****

Now, if every other state would adopt similar standards, we would see abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy -- particularly post-19 weeks -- greatly reduced.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#121
Mar 5, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if he might not pray with the woman. Or might comfort her.
But, I thought that your question had to do with the fetus--since that seemed to be the medical focus of your thinking, that there was something medical to be done that was either prohibited or not required.
Ohio legislators seem to have figured it out.

O.R.C. 2919.17

(D)

(6) The physician who performs or induces or attempts to perform or induce the abortion has arranged for the attendance in the same room in which the abortion is to be performed or induced or attempted to be performed or induced at least one other physician who is to take control of, provide immediate medical care for, and take all reasonable steps necessary to preserve the life and health of the unborn child immediately upon the childís complete expulsion or extraction from the pregnant woman.

***

Unbelievable, that you couldn't come to the same conclusion, Sister "Christian."

“animis opibusque parati”

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#122
Mar 5, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if he might not pray with the woman. Or might comfort her.
Only if she were repentant.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#123
Mar 5, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Ohio's 2012 late-term abortion ban is embodied in ORC 2919.17, 2919.171 and 2919.18, pertinent part of 2919.17, as follows:
A) No person shall purposely perform or induce or attempt to perform or induce an abortion on a pregnant woman when the unborn child is viable.
(B)
(1) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under division (A) of this section that the abortion was performed or induced or attempted to be performed or induced by a physician and that the physician determined, in the physicianís good faith medical judgment, based on the facts known to the physician at that time, that either of the following applied:
(a) The unborn child was not viable.
(b) The abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman or a serious risk of the substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
(2) No abortion shall be considered necessary under division (B)(1)(b) of this section on the basis of a claim or diagnosis that the pregnant woman will engage in conduct that would result in the pregnant womanís death or a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman or based on any reason related to the womanís mental health.
****
Now, if every other state would adopt similar standards, we would see abortion on demand, at any stage of pregnancy -- particularly post-19 weeks -- greatly reduced.
You're welcome.

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