Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#63 Mar 4, 2013
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is why we're not looking at mortality rates, but the rate at which premature births occur.
As the link you've induced earlier with Swedish prematurity outcomes shows ~30% of the sample as being listed as stillborn and still counted as premature, it looks like we can safely assume that all the countries I've mentioned (the US, UK and Sweden) are counting stillbirths in their figures for premature births!
My married 24 year old daughter, who graduated summa cum lade from college. She at 24 earns double the national average.

was taken by cesarian the 26th week. She lived in Children's Hospital 4 months till she weighed 4lbs.

at birth she was 1lb 8oz.

what would you know about birth?

you abort everything; but getting someone to have sex with you is the most difficult task.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#64 Mar 4, 2013
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, tip seems to have his heart in the right place but the more people posting legitimate statistics, the better we'll be able to steer the conversation into something intellectually honest!
Awesomely, the rate of premature births can be cut back incredibly quickly through access to prenatal care, which is something we can look to import from other countries. More available care should mean fewer preemies and better outlooks.
For example, here in the UK where we have the NHS 1 out of every 13 births (8%) are premature as opposed to 1 out of 9 in the US (12%). Sweden, which we've looked at in this article (and who really just has some stunning health and social policies relating to children, childbirth, women and parents) comes in at 6%, roughly half our rate.
Is there any organization in the US that helps low income people get good prenatal care?
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#65 Mar 4, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
"Many countries, however, including certain European states and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and raises their rates of perinatal mortality."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality
The ability to breathe is a pretty good indicator of life, I would guess.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#66 Mar 4, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
My married 24 year old daughter, who graduated summa cum lade from college. She at 24 earns double the national average.
was taken by cesarian the 26th week. She lived in Children's Hospital 4 months till she weighed 4lbs.
at birth she was 1lb 8oz.
what would you know about birth?
you abort everything; but getting someone to have sex with you is the most difficult task.
You always bring so much civility and useful information to the discussion.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#67 Mar 4, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any organization in the US that helps low income people get good prenatal care?
Local health departments often offer some care. Planned Parenthood offers prenatal care and testing in many of their locations. There are some charities working to increase access but the only one I know of on a national level is March of Dimes, and they're not great as an overall charity.

I think that the lack of access to maternity leave in the US can be just as serious for health outlooks as a lack of prenatal care can be. US employers are under no obligation to give any maternity leave, regardless of physician advice.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#68 Mar 4, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any organization in the US that helps low income people get good prenatal care?
yes....it is called insurance companies.

if you are uninsured, then every emergency room in this country is.

why do you ask?

how could a gay couple get pregnant?

you are just constipated. Drink prune juice; and abort your fantasy baby.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#69 Mar 4, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
You always bring so much civility and useful information to the discussion.
fact hard to swallow for you?

too bad.....who cares?
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#70 Mar 4, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
fact hard to swallow for you?
too bad.....who cares?
Fact? You haven't posted a fact here in 6 months.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#71 Mar 4, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
yes....it is called insurance companies.
if you are uninsured, then every emergency room in this country is.
why do you ask?
how could a gay couple get pregnant?
you are just constipated. Drink prune juice; and abort your fantasy baby.
Emergency room for prenatal care. Excellent advice.

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

#72 Mar 4, 2013
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Hiya! In Japan, the legal definition of a live birth is one in which the baby is showing signs of life, breathing or able to breathe at or immediately after birth.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AD%BB%E7%94%...
Children who die immediately or quickly after exhibiting signs of life are live births and still have to be put on the family register and given death certificates, even if they were alive for moments.
My French isn't stellar, so I'll have to trust you on the French one, though it sounds like a bit of a stretch!
What is with the ridiculous exclamation marks in your posts? Just can't contain yourself and your phony "intellect"?

In a 2008 study, Joy Lawn estimated that a full three-fourths of the world’s neonatal deaths are counted only through highly unreliable five-yearly retrospective household surveys, instead of being reported at the time by hospitals and health-care professionals, as in the United States. Moreover, the most premature babies — those with the highest likelihood of dying — are the least likely to be recorded in infant and neonatal mortality statistics in other countries. Compounding that difficulty, in other countries the underreporting is greatest for deaths that occur very soon after birth. Since the earliest deaths make up 75 percent of all neonatal deaths, underreporting by other countries — often misclassifying what were really live births as fetal demise (stillbirths)— would falsely exclude most neonatal deaths. Any assumption that the practice of underreporting is confined to less-developed nations is incorrect. In fact, a number of published peer-reviewed studies show that underreporting of early neonatal deaths has varied between 10 percent and 30 percent in highly developed Western European and Asian countries.

The United States strictly adheres to the WHO definition of live birth (any infant “irrespective of the duration of the pregnancy, which ... breathes or shows any other evidence of life ... whether or not the umbilical cord has been cut or the placenta is attached”) and uses a strictly implemented linked birth and infant-death data set. On the contrary, many other nations, including highly developed countries in Western Europe, use far less strict definitions, all of which underreport the live births of more fragile infants who soon die. As a consequence, they falsely report more favorable neonatal- and infant-mortality rates.

A 2006 report from WHO stated that “among developed countries, mortality rates may reflect differences in the definitions used for reporting births, such as cut-offs for registering live births and birth weight.” The Bulletin of WHO noted that “it has also been common practice in several countries (e.g. Belgium, France, Spain) to register as live births only those infants who survived for a specified period beyond birth”; those who did not survive were “completely ignored for registration purposes.” Since the U.S. counts as live births all babies who show “any evidence of life,” even the most premature and the smallest — the very babies who account for the majority of neonatal deaths — it necessarily has a higher neonatal-mortality rate than countries that do not.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/276952...

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

#73 Mar 4, 2013
A separate WHO Bulletin in 2008 noted that registration of stillbirths, live births, and neonatal deaths is done differently in countries where abortion is legal compared with countries where abortion is uncommon or illegal, and these discrepancies generate substantial differences in infant-mortality rates. Jan Richardus showed that the perinatal mortality rate “can vary by 50% depending on which definition is used,” and Wilco Graafmans reported that terminology differences alone among Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the U.K.— highly developed countries with substantially different infant-mortality rates — caused rates to vary by 14 to 40 percent, and generated a false reduction in reported infant-mortality rates of up to 17 percent. These differences, coupled with the fact that the U.S. medical system is far more aggressive about resuscitating very premature infants, mean that very premature infants are even more likely to be categorized as live births in the U.S., even though they have only a small chance of surviving. Considering that, even in the U.S., roughly half of all infant mortality occurs in the first 24 hours, the single factor of omitting very early deaths in many European nations generates their falsely superior neonatal-mortality rates.

An additional major reason for the high infant-mortality rate of the United States is its high percentage of preterm births, relative to the other developed countries. Neonatal deaths are mainly associated with prematurity and low birth weight. Therefore the fact that the percentage of preterm births in the U.S. is far higher than that in all other OECD countries — 65 percent higher than in Britain, and more than double the rate in Ireland, Finland, and Greece — further undermines the validity of neonatal-mortality comparisons. Whether this high percentage arises from more aggressive in vitro fertilization, creating multiple-gestation pregnancies, from risky behaviors among pregnant women, or from other factors unrelated to the quality of medical care, the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics has concluded that “the primary reason for the United States’ higher infant mortality rate when compared with Europe is the United States’ much higher percentage of preterm births.”(M. F. MacDorman and T. J. Matthews, 2007)
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/276952...

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#74 Mar 4, 2013
Do you have more to paste? I'm not seeing an alternate definition of the Japanese guidelines for what is a live birth.

I can link you to more resources, if you like, but I imagine the language issue is still going to pose a problem. I though wikipedia was the easiest language I was going to be able to find and most likely to make sense through machine translation!

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#75 Mar 4, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
"First, it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless. And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country."
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articl...
I have frequently responded to this difficulty in making sound country to country comparisons on the survival rate of infants. If anyone seriously doubts that under our system we are losing kids that we could/should not be losing, start by looking a demographic comparisons within the US. The rates of low-birth-weight infants ands infant mortality reveal huge gaps by socio-economic status and ethnicity. At the low end of the scale we appear comparable to a good many third world countries with underdeveloped systems of education and health care.

However, as tranp noted above, we know that every month of additional prenatal care brings dramatic results. We also know that visiting nurse programs are highly effective.

Imagine if we were able to move the lower end of the scale up to a comparable point with the upper end.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#76 Mar 4, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any organization in the US that helps low income people get good prenatal care?
There are some federally and locally funded programs, not to mention some privately funded, or private public partnerships.

One of the largest is Planned Parenthood--recognizing that good prenatal care begins before pregnancy.

Federally Qualified Health Centers (guess what--currently being hit by sequester cuts!) assist in the provision of needed medical services in geographic areas defined as Medically Underserved Areas. In Columbus this is augmented by local funding through the Columbus Health Department--which also operates their own maternity clinics as well. Many of the hospitals also have clinics funded through a variety of sources.

There is a group in Columbus--name escapes me--which tracks availability of such care against the need. One of the ongoing issues they have reported on is the time-lag until the first available appointment in many of these clinics. But, I haven't been up to speed in awhile.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#77 Mar 4, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
My married 24 year old daughter, who graduated summa cum lade from college. She at 24 earns double the national average.
was taken by cesarian the 26th week. She lived in Children's Hospital 4 months till she weighed 4lbs.
at birth she was 1lb 8oz.
what would you know about birth?
you abort everything; but getting someone to have sex with you is the most difficult task.
There is a really big difference between 26 weeks and 20 (or even 22) weeks.

And even at 26 weeks you are reporting 4 months in an incubator.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#78 Mar 4, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
yes....it is called insurance companies.
if you are uninsured, then every emergency room in this country is.
why do you ask?
how could a gay couple get pregnant?
you are just constipated. Drink prune juice; and abort your fantasy baby.
ERs don't provide prenatal care.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#79 Mar 4, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Emergency room for prenatal care. Excellent advice.
you said there was none. NONE.

safety nets are for those who are in desperate need. Emergency rooms have been providing care to anyone for free for decades.

now you are above a line for handouts?

you want anyone to see the best specialist in a field once a week for something they can't pay for.

before hospitals were invented......how did women have babies?
anyone living rural....how did the women have babies?

if you can't pay a Doctor, then I suggest when you are due to be in an Amish neighborhood. Amish children at early age are educated at birth. So don't worry about lines; any Amish citizen can act as mid-wife.
wondering

Baldwyn, MS

#80 Mar 5, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any organization in the US that helps low income people get good prenatal care?
Medicaid.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#81 Mar 5, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
ERs don't provide prenatal care.
then if you want prenatal care you need to pay for it.

is this child also going to increase the size of the mothers monthly government assistance check?

So am I to understand that it is in the best interest of society, that the mother receive the best care available at no charge, to assure a new hand is out for more government assistance?

When will you be screaming anyone earning less that $40,000 a year be granted free fuel for their cars because it is taking food out of the children's mouth.

is that next week's crisis?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#82 Mar 5, 2013
tranpsosition wrote:
Do you have more to paste? I'm not seeing an alternate definition of the Japanese guidelines for what is a live birth.
I can link you to more resources, if you like, but I imagine the language issue is still going to pose a problem. I though wikipedia was the easiest language I was going to be able to find and most likely to make sense through machine translation!
if you require a link to understand live birth, there is no hope for you.

No matter where you live, the definition of live birth is the same.

Fact....many babies aborted, could be born on same day with a different surgery.

what you require a machine to translate, is common knowledge to everyone.

The ability to identify death from life must just be over your head.

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