Gun Control Under Obama
adam grogg

Van Wert, OH

#1863 Jan 12, 2013

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1864 Jan 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
The possibilities are endless. BUT, it hurts the market for public business sector.
Not to mention that it costs the taxpayers to buy the materials they would use. Best is to use them for manual labor for the public good, I think. We're paying their room and board anyway... and you know what they say about idle hands...

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1865 Jan 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
In the latter case, a government that turns violent against it's citizens or one segment of it's population, I would expect the same arms to be used against the tyrants.
It would become a moral question to military and law enforcement. Do you owe you alligence to the heads of government or the citizens you are sworn to protect, which includes your family?
I would expect a lot of defections in the military, but not really defections, since their oath is to protect the constitution, not the politicians.
VADoc

Wilmington, OH

#1866 Jan 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Mr. Expert on How Reader Thinks, not so sure why you need to ask, and I have explained this before, but here goes again.
Too many people are being killed senselessly--that is by accident or by the irrational actions of irrational persons who have guns. No single action is going to make all of that go away. However, the rate of incidence can be decreased through a comprehensive approach. Australia stands as a good first example.
Yes--the things that you mention (background checks, waiting periods, requirements for these things in person-to-person transfers), which serve to both limit legal sales to certain persons as well as to generally slow down the acquisition (standing in the way of certain emotionally triggered incidents) are likely to be helpful. And yes, I do advocate some limitations on the size/speed (forgive me for not being a weapons expert) of weaponry available to the average citizen. Guns, whatever else you hobbyists may insist they are used for, are instruments of killing. As such, it is reasonable to set limits on those designed for the mass and rapid killing of large numbers of persons. This cannot be justified by self-defense or hunting. If there is some usage within the context of "well-ordered militias," then I suggest that someone craft a legal definition of same and set parameters.
There is little doubt that mental health is sadly neglected in this country, nor that this has played a role in most, if not all, of the recent horrendous shoot-em-ups. We need both short and long-range solutions. We need to increase the numbers of available professionals available to treat those with diagnosed difficulties. We need adequate support for such persons in their communities (not every person with a diagnosis is a danger to self or others, recall), and we need to ensure mechanism for screenings and supervision so that when there are symptoms of decompensation (which frequently include going off of meds and denying treatment) that families and communities are not left resourceless in trying to prevent disasters.
Lastly, we need to be about consciously altering our point of view with regard to the notion of a handgun in every home bringing about some increased level of safety and protection. This does not seem to be the case--based on our over stats of both ownership and crime. And we need to stop teaching it to impressionable knuckle-heads with too easy access (albeit illegal) who may never live to outgrow their immature need to outgun someone else.
Have you checked violent crime stats for Australia since they got rid of guns?

As for mental health services I can definitely speak to that. I spent many hours on the psych units while working in healthcare. The problem with mental health services is not the access. It's more about the stigma and noncompliance.

How prevalent is diabetes? Heart disease? Both are almost 100% preventable yet they are affecting millions in this country. Why? Poor choices and non compliance. Mental health is the same way. We can offer all the therapy and meds people want but we can't make them take them or show up for appointments. Unless we institutionalize people. Then if they ever get out they will do anything to avoid going back inside.

So in short you can't force people to get help with mental illness and have them comply unless you want to institutionalize them. And you cannot get rid of gun crime by taking away the rights of law abiding citizens. You can't legislate morality or civility. If you could then life would be cake. We simply would have to pass a law and then nothing bad would ever happen.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1867 Jan 12, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would expect a lot of defections in the military, but not really defections, since their oath is to protect the constitution, not the politicians.
Well, we think alike on this. I would not consider it a defection either.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1868 Jan 12, 2013
The Denver/Baltimore game was awesome!
Spookishere F trolls

Toledo, OH

#1869 Jan 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
The Denver/Baltimore game was awesome!
If you say so.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#1870 Jan 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
What would be the difference?
You don't know the difference between a government employing violence on its own citizens and an invading force? Let me see if I can come up with some anecdotal evidence for you.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#1871 Jan 12, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Puhlease... The money they are getting (wages AND benefits (which do nothing for the economy now)) came from the economy in the first place. Putting it back will increase civilian employment.
How will forced labor of prisoners increase civilian employment?

(Everybody's wages come from the economy.)
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#1872 Jan 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
But, truthfully, most prisoners are so caught up in the prison society and gangs, they don't want to work while incarcerated.
What is your source for that claim?
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#1873 Jan 12, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
they can be first line bosses, or find a new job
That wouldn't be very good for the economy would it?
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#1874 Jan 12, 2013
VADoc wrote:
<quoted text>
No it's called working several years in Ohio serving mainly the Medicaid population. I've seen some of the most disgraceful excuses for human beings. If society breaks down these people will rob, rape, kill, and steal to get what they want. Many already do. When society breaks down the person with the biggest stick survives. You can't use your principles to live on or defend yourself by jungle rule.
You act like it's some far away place that cannot happen here. I had family members survive Katrina. Trust me it can and it doesn't take long for the scum of society to go on a spree when disaster strikes.
I can tell by your readings that in the event of a disaster you'd be one of the first trying to get to a neighbors home who you know prepared for such things and expect them to care for you. Just like you expect the government to make all your decisions for you and care for you. You're a sheep. Some of us are wolves and can think for ourselves and fend for ourselves.
Oh and I came from nothing. I came from one of the worst school districts ohio has. I worked my ass off to get where I am in life. I've seen plenty of sloth and entitlement in my day. Anyone can make a good living in this country it just requires the will and fortitude to make it happen.
Do you work for the government?
WiseAmerican

Columbus, OH

#1875 Jan 12, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>exactly, Republicans & Ron Pauls types love Welfare too but they call Republican Welfare subsidizing which Corporate Welfare.
Government Spends More on Corporate Welfare Subsidies than Social Welfare Programs
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending...
Voters See ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government Spending
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending...
Corporate Welfare
http://thinkbynumbers.org/category/government...
Thanks for that website! Very informative.
Spookishere F trolls

Toledo, OH

#1876 Jan 12, 2013
WiseAmerican wrote:
<quoted text> Thanks for that website! Very informative.
I am for eliminating all welfare including corporate subsidies. I like you am for all free men being constitutionally whole including second amendment rights. You would fit in on the far right with me come on over to the right side

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1877 Jan 12, 2013
Spookishere F trolls wrote:
<quoted text>
There should be no limit. Criminals are already breaking laws do you really believe they will not be able to get firearms and ammo just as the get cocaine, heroine, and asian women to turn into prostitutes?
Why should a law enforcement employee be allowed a high capacity magazine and not a citizen?
Same reason a physician can prescribe medications and you cannot. Different roles, responsibilities, training, skills--things like that.

But the question was not what you wanted. The question was about what is needed for self-defense.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1878 Jan 12, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
I do....quite extensive
why?
Wasn't asking you.
Spookishere F trolls

Toledo, OH

#1879 Jan 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Same reason a physician can prescribe medications and you cannot. Different roles, responsibilities, training, skills--things like that.
But the question was not what you wanted. The question was about what is needed for self-defense.
Anything a law enforcement employee is allowed. Law enforceme t has no obligation to defend or protect me or my property. If words on paper are supposed to be good enough for a citizen to defend oneself with then let the cops carry a copy of the Ohio revised code and a pencil.
As for training I would put my training skills and pratice up against any US law enforcement goon. I have never shot at someone only to hit bystanders like new york cops. I have never shot at anyone only to not hit them or even their vehicle like the State Highway patrol. Unlike law enforcement employees I practice every day with several weapons. When I have shot enimies and vermin they were dead unless there was information to be obtained.
Pale Rider

AOL

#1880 Jan 12, 2013
It looks like Obama is going to let the families of Newtown have a heavy hand on Gun Control. Who else could feel the kind of parental pain they had to go through? As a Father or a Mother seeing their child for the last time alive. Then a shooter with an assault rifle mows them down like you would a standing target, with a machine gun.

What do you think those parents will recommend to the president ?

Hugh Victor Thompson III

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

#1881 Jan 12, 2013
Pale Rider wrote:
It looks like Obama is going to let the families of Newtown have a heavy hand on Gun Control. Who else could feel the kind of parental pain they had to go through? As a Father or a Mother seeing their child for the last time alive. Then a shooter with an assault rifle mows them down like you would a standing target, with a machine gun.
What do you think those parents will recommend to the president ?
You still don't know anything about firearms, do you, hilljack?
The families of Newtown will be used as props. That's how your boy treats victims of the nightmarish incidents that have happened on his watch.
Get a real life

Bronx, NY

#1882 Jan 12, 2013
VADoc is a fraud just like Reality Speaks is a fraud and a fraud of many names on this forum. Not very bright frauds either.

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