Gun Control Under Obama

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#946 Jan 2, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
Is is a flat fine or per employee fine, Tone?

Up to $2,000 per employee per year (or $2000 per 1440 hours of multiple employees per year).

[QUOTE] They can cut their employees back to under 50 or cut the hours per employee to under 28 per week to avoid any employer provided health insurance,
It looks like (who really knows what's in it for sure <g>) any combination of employees working a total of 120 hours in a month will result in a "one employee" fine for that month ($2000/12) if they're not offered coverage. So 4 employees working 60 hours a month would be 240 hours and two ($2000/12) fines for that month, and 5 employees working 48 hours a month each would be the same fine. So it would seem to be encouraging more employees working fewer hours... artificially reducing the "unemployment rate" on the one hand, while on the other widening the wealth gap even more. Not well thought out at all in my opinion.
but that will cost the individual a fortune and many of them will chose to pay the fine.
It's essentially a tax on the working poor (people who make enough that the fine would exceed the cost of insurance probably already have insurance).
Quality of care is going to drop as doctors leave medicine or just refuse to accept medicare and Obamacare.
The exchanges aren't "Obamacare", they're minimalist policies offered by the very same companies that offer "real" insurance with the same providers lists.
Or they can restructure the company into several smaller ones, each with only 49 employees and skirt it. What a friggin nightmare this is going to be. Stay well.
You too.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#947 Jan 2, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
To your point of quitting rather than joining the union, yes, you made the right decision. A non-union worker can be treated very badly and dangerously in a union shop.
I know. My dad was almost killed trying to cross a picket line. All he wanted to do was work and support his family. I have DESPISED unions ever since. If YOU want to join one, that's your right, but you shouldn't be able to FORCE someone that doesn't want to to join.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#948 Jan 2, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody gets forced to join a union, Tony.
You might have to pay in-kind contributions, but ya don't have to join.
woof
Pay them for the privilege of cutting my pay???? You're freaking high!

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#949 Jan 2, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
That isn't the purpose Tony.
Uh huh... just a side-effect, eh?

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#950 Jan 2, 2013
Another danger of being non-union...

http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-30/news/36...

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#953 Jan 3, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if it's 'universal', but that's the fact in this country. Unlike you, I don't make statements I'm not sure of.
Except that the data available shows fairly clearly that this is not accurate.

Wanting something to be true and knowing it to be true are sadly, different animals.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#954 Jan 3, 2013
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that the data available shows fairly clearly that this is not accurate.
Wanting something to be true and knowing it to be true are sadly, different animals.
sorta like global warming

who farted?
Big Johnson

Springfield, OH

#955 Jan 3, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
sorta like global warming
who farted?
That pretty much sums up your mindless contribution to this forum.

Like Glitter, you have the brain of a common variety garden slug.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#956 Jan 3, 2013
Big Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>
That pretty much sums up your mindless contribution to this forum.
Like Glitter, you have the brain of a common variety garden slug.
just think how my garden slug brain has you so envious.....you are green with envy.

and speaking of contributions....when you going to pay your fair share?

if topix charged $1 a post.....you would be unable to participate.

everyone wants to be like you....broke, gay, living in Mom's basement., school dropout, and unable to provide for themselves.

and you think you are winning?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#957 Jan 3, 2013
please rush some global warming to Ohio

at 11 degrees.....we need plenty of it.....like 70 degrees of it.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#958 Jan 3, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh huh... just a side-effect, eh?
It actually evens the playing field that contractors are on by equalizing the hourly labor costs during the estimating process, encourages creativity in the design and construction processes, and forces contractors to pay fair wages and benefits to the employees during construction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis-Bacon_Act

http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/dbra.htm

Its certainly not perfect, and there are arguments to be made that it increases costs and discourages competition, but there are good justifications for it as well.

It initially was enacted in reaction to concerns about the volume of cheap labor flooding the construction market on public projects during and immediately after the depression, when a large amount of public works projects were being funded by the federal government. The flip side of your argument, if you will.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#959 Jan 3, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Pay them for the privilege of cutting my pay???? You're freaking high!
You said something to the effect that it took you a year or so to get back to the pay you were originally making. No mention of benefits at either job.

I can understand that you would be ticked. That was a lot of money back then.

But my guess is that the union probably achieved getting some benefits in negotiations for the workers after you left that they weren't getting before, and I'm also guessing that a year or two after you left the wage being paid for your prior position went right back up to where you were as well.

woof
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#960 Jan 3, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I did. I was already the highest paid at the shop and lost $1.50 an hour as part of the "deal". That made the choice easier but I still ended up over $.50 down ($.50 was a lot bigger deal in the 70s than it is today) and it took me over a year to get back to the level I was. The mugger took me for $25 a week!
You don't get it. You were operating under a contract. That is a voluntary agreement between two parties. You didn't like it and did the right thing and left. Your mugger example, while emotionally charged, is not logically appropriate.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#961 Jan 3, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if it's 'universal', but that's the fact in this country. Unlike you, I don't make statements I'm not sure of.
Of course you do. You didn't read that link the other poster provided you, did you?
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#962 Jan 3, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
just think how my garden slug brain has you so envious.....you are green with envy.
and speaking of contributions....when you going to pay your fair share?
if topix charged $1 a post.....you would be unable to participate.
everyone wants to be like you....broke, gay, living in Mom's basement., school dropout, and unable to provide for themselves.
and you think you are winning?
Hey. Why do all of the news outlets have it wrong? They are reporting that the House passed the tax bill so that everyone's taxes didn't go up and automatic spending cuts didn't kick in. I know that can't be correct because you garaunteed that it wouldn't happen. What's up?
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#963 Jan 3, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
Another danger of being non-union...
http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-30/news/36...
While I certainly don't condone those sort of acts, the other dangers of "working non-union" that you're ignoring are a little less newsworthy, but they're the sort of incidents that played a key role in producing the American organized labor movement in the first place.

The stories usually simply read "Man dies in industrial accident", or "Three killed in cave in", or something to that effect. Multiplied hundreds of times over across the country, but placed in small local newspapers in hundreds of little towns scattered across the Nation, they barely raised an eyebrow beyond the individual communities of those killed.

woof
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#964 Jan 3, 2013
organized employers give the finger to organized labor.

jobs are not why a business is in business.

money is.

you liberals just can't fathom the fact, that businesses are not there to support you.

support yourself.

start your own business.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#965 Jan 3, 2013
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that the data available shows fairly clearly that this is not accurate.
Wanting something to be true and knowing it to be true are sadly, different animals.
I don't care what the 'data available' to you says.

What I stated about non union workers making 'union rate' is absolutely true and has been going on for awhile. Go out in the real world and see for yourself.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#966 Jan 3, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
organized employers give the finger to organized labor.
jobs are not why a business is in business.
money is.
you liberals just can't fathom the fact, that businesses are not there to support you.
support yourself.
start your own business.
Did Texas miss the deadline for spliting into 5 states so we could have 104 Senators?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#967 Jan 3, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
While I certainly don't condone those sort of acts, the other dangers of "working non-union" that you're ignoring are a little less newsworthy, but they're the sort of incidents that played a key role in producing the American organized labor movement in the first place.
The stories usually simply read "Man dies in industrial accident", or "Three killed in cave in", or something to that effect. Multiplied hundreds of times over across the country, but placed in small local newspapers in hundreds of little towns scattered across the Nation, they barely raised an eyebrow beyond the individual communities of those killed.
woof
Depends on the circumstances and company and individual, Dukester. Lots of union guys have gotten hurt and 'gone in to the hole'(which means fallen from a height and been killed.) My cousin's husband, a union tin-knocker has been off since July with a torn up shoulder from an accident on the job. And he's very experienced. Accidents happen.

On the other hand. my non-union husband walked up on one of his jobs recently and two men were 13' in the ground with no trench box or shoring. He shut the job down and told the contractor 'not on my job. I've seen men that I've had coffee with that morning die in a cave in.'

So I wouldn't say union is any safer than non union. I do have a problem with unions allowing apprentices to complete work without a journeyman present. And in lots of cases, the OSHA inspector or municipal inspector makes it a full time job to look the other way. But not all, some are quite good.

Like everything else, I guess, some good, some bad in both.

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