Gun Control Under Obama

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#8381 Apr 16, 2014
Pale Rider wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't about guns. This is a story about an old rancher that has been using either State Land or my guess both State and Federal Land to graze his hundred's of cattle on for nearly 30 years. No COST, a damn moocher. Wouldn't you love to have a place all FREE of CHARGE to graze a huge herd of cattle on?
The government has allowed grazing on government land for as long as we've been a country.
Literally THOUSANDS of people do it. Some pay, some don't, and some have been caught not paying. Mr. Bundy is in the latter category. Since cows don't know where the borders are, the government should have fenced off their property to keep them out. But if they're going to start fencing, they should start with Mexico.
SFF

Hamilton, OH

#8382 Apr 16, 2014
At least he's working for his handout. My guess is the free loaders are pissed because they didn't think of it first. I he wasn't a white republican there would be no story.
Ikea

Mason, OH

#8383 Apr 16, 2014
Firearms homicide kills 10,000 Americans a year or three one-thousands of one percent .0003%, this is about the same number who die from diarrhea. Instead of restricting law abiding gun owners rights, why not put the money and effort towards something like medical malpractice which kills nearly 250,000 .075% people a year
Pale Rider

AOL

#8384 Apr 16, 2014
SFF wrote:
At least he's working for his handout. My guess is the free loaders are pissed because they didn't think of it first. I he wasn't a white republican there would be no story.
It seems to me this Old Republican, are like most Republicans, they love to get something going to make Obama look bad. Any damn story, and they milk everyone for all it is worth. If it was a Black Rancher, the Republicans would not stop, until every cow, heifer, calf, bull, steer, was loaded on trucks and slaughtered. Then they would have raised so much stink, over what he owed, they would want an investigation, by the US Congress. They would say, how could Obama let this happen on his watch?
Pale Rider

AOL

#8385 Apr 16, 2014
Does the 2nd Amendment need a damn good overhaul, to protect our citizens today in a modern society?

The 2nd Amendment is old-fashioned and outdated. We need more gun control laws to make America safer. Will the Republican fight Obama, if he tries to do something, before he is out of office?

Aren't you glad we have a man in the White House that is looking out for our good. What we saw in the last Republican in the White House, was a man that let greed get out of hand, as the rich took full advantage of the Government.

Let's keep CHANGE GOING! Vote for a Democrat!

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#8386 Apr 16, 2014
Pale Rider wrote:
Let's keep CHANGE GOING! Vote for a Democrat!
Thanks to Democrats, 86 million people are supporting 146 million recipients of government benefits. Be sure to put a bumper sticker on your car and signs in your yard. Eventually people are going to be seeking out those who are to blame.
SFF

Hamilton, OH

#8387 Apr 16, 2014
Had it been a black rancher Al would have been right there with the NAACP and bus loads of democraps holding signs about racism. Obama would be on national TV telling us all how this could be his 32nd cousin twice removed born out of wedlock that is being treated bad. Tomorrow when you wake up try coffee cause the Kool-Aid is really causing you to be mentally unstable.

Change will be a beautiful thing when harry gets put in the corner to play with his slinky after the November democrat downgrade.
Neutral Party

Prospect, KY

#8388 Apr 17, 2014
Pale Rider wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't about guns. This is a story about an old rancher that has been using either State Land or my guess both State and Federal Land to graze his hundred's of cattle on for nearly 30 years. No COST, a damn moocher. Wouldn't you love to have a place all FREE of CHARGE to graze a huge herd of cattle on? After a gravy train of who knows, maybe 40 years, the government says you need to pay up, what would you do? Make it look like you are Mr. Nice Guy, the Big Government is taking my grazing rights.
Do any of you city slickers have any idea what 900 cattle would bring in a year? Beef is $5.27 Lb. average at the store. How much is this old cry baby moocher getting off the tax payers every year? How much would he take in a year from FEEDER CATTLE sales? No wonder he is crying, I would too, if someone wanted to take away my FREE pasture for my cattle. We should demand he pay up, instead of a FREE PASS. It is no different than the man that owes taxes and will not pay. How much would 900 head of cattle bring in a year?$500,000 a year? More? He isn't broke that is for sure. It really doesn't matter who owns the land, it doesn't cost this old moocher one dime for his cattle to graze on.
This is where you libs really lose sight of things. You think the rancher is mooching.

Doesn't matter that his family has been using this land for 100 years and he paid the state of NV. Doesn't matter that Harry Reid has donors that want the land. The fed govt shows up with hundreds of enforcement officers armed with tasers and guns. Sharp shooters posted all because of protesters in a rural area go to support him.

You say he brings in 500K a year raising cattle based on what the price is in the grocery. Doesn't matter that he has ever increasing fees, mostly taxes. He has cost of raising cattle, vet bills haven't gone down any the past 5 years have they Widest Rider? Finally, when he goes to sell them he has too get them there. Diesel fuel hasn't been reasonable in years so they don't walk to the auction or to the slaughter house. Finally, steaks don't go from the ranch to the package without a lot of work.

That work is met with higher costs each day. You see the slaughter house has seen cost increase dramatically the past 5 years. Just last year, the cost to keep the lights on went up over 5%. Oh yes, these businesses have to pay for that Oblamocare now that is "saving" them all that money. You getting the point because there is a lot more that just the rancer?

So many libs call him a moocher and many conservatives call him a great American for standing up to govt. I am undecided on this issue but can tell you this hard working farmer is no moocher.

I can tell you one thing, those that believe this man is making tons of $ unearned are far from reality and probably have a wide ass from sitting on it most of the day.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#8389 Apr 17, 2014
Hi NP, would you be able to answer the questions I asked above, so that I can better understand your views on gun violence/violence and drug use. You may have missed them. I've copied my questions below as well.

Do you think that the US has the highest rates of drug use?

How would you contrast the gun violence and homicide rates of the US against Portugal, given their approaches to firearms and drug laws?

How do you feel that Portugal (or any of the other nations with higher rates of drug use and/or legal or decriminalized substances we criminalize in the US) have managed to curb gun violence if you see a causation relationship between drug use and violence?

Thanks!
Neutral Party

Prospect, KY

#8390 Apr 17, 2014
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
This is rely interesting, could you talk about this connection between drug use, banning drugs and gun violence?
Do you think that the US has the highest rates of drug use?
How would you contrast the gun violence and homicide rates of the US against Portugal, given their approaches to firearms and drug laws?
How do you feel that Portugal (or any of the other nations with higher rates of drug use and/or legal or decriminalized substances we criminalize in the US) have managed to curb gun violence if you see a causation relationship between drug use and violence?
I'm slightly concerned that you're not very well researched in this topic and have latched onto the idea that drugs = violence out of an attempt to wring understanding
Buddy, I see the Louisville nightly/morning news and of the 60-70 gun killings annually, over half are drug related. I don't really care what goes on in Portugal or your country.

You sound like your in academics and have all the answers to fit your agenda we just need to implement it. I remember sitting in my first political science class in the early 80's and heard the professor proclaim Mondale would beat Reagan and his policies would save this nation. I temporarily put up with that crap before moving on to better things and with you I will move on too. If you want to see the difference buy a ticket to Louisville and I will tell you where to go to see the best action. Make sure it is a one way ticket, you won't need the round trip.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#8391 Apr 17, 2014
Neutral Party wrote:
<quoted text>
Buddy, I see the Louisville nightly/morning news and of the 60-70 gun killings annually, over half are drug related. I don't really care what goes on in Portugal or your country.
You sound like your in academics and have all the answers to fit your agenda we just need to implement it. I remember sitting in my first political science class in the early 80's and heard the professor proclaim Mondale would beat Reagan and his policies would save this nation. I temporarily put up with that crap before moving on to better things and with you I will move on too. If you want to see the difference buy a ticket to Louisville and I will tell you where to go to see the best action. Make sure it is a one way ticket, you won't need the round trip.
So would it be fair to say that you're basing your claim that gun violence and drugs are linked on anecdotes, that you have no facts to support this and aren't interested in doing cursory research to support your position?

While I find the implied threat perfectly adorable, I would much rather see if we can't move you into a frame of mind where we're able to have a discussion based on hard data. Would you like me to tell you about the drug regulations in Portugal and what their rates of gun and non-gun homicides are? I would be just as chuffed if you wanted to look them up (they're 2 quick google searches away) and move the conversation along from there. If you don't want to talk about Portugal as a contract to US policy, I would be happy to engage with any manner of factually supported arguments you're able to provide.

Also, your is used to show possession. You're is the appropriate choice when you're trying to shorten you are.
Neutral Party

Prospect, KY

#8392 Apr 17, 2014
But I can get one thing right, you're an AH!

Get a plane ticket to Louisville. Go to 35th and Market and try to buy some drugs. If you don't get robbed and shot first, you will soon after your purchase. I assume your failure to reply will show my anecdotes to be correct.
Neutral Party

Prospect, KY

#8393 Apr 17, 2014
OK Mr. Wizard,
Here is more proof to support my anecdotes. Of course, you will now discount my simple Google search that show 100's of references to Gun violence and drugs.

Now you stay in Portugal and live your liberal socialist agenda and I will fight for my freedoms here in America.

Guns and drugs

The drug market is a major contributor to the Nation's homicide rate. Indeed, the peak in homicides during the mid-1980's was directly related to the saturation of urban areas with the crack cocaine drug trade. Methamphetamine -- more powerful, more addictive, and easier to produce than crack cocaine -- is becoming a major drug of choice in urban, suburban, and rural communities. If the methamphetamine trade results in drug wars on the same scale as those of the 1980's, it is possible that homicide rates will begin to climb once more, as drug dealers are among those most likely to carry weapons.21

Guns and gangs

Gangs have proliferated rapidly since 1980, when there were about 2,000 gangs with 100,000 members in 286 cities.22 By 1996, there were 31,000 gangs with 846,000 members in 4,800 cities and towns.23

Gangs are more likely to recruit adolescents who own firearms, and gang members (who are twice as likely to own guns for protection than nongang members) are more likely to carry guns outside their homes.24 The risk of being killed is 60 times greater among young gang members than in the general population25 and in some cities, far higher. For example, the St. Louis youth gang homicide rate is 1,000 times higher than the U.S. homicide rate.26

Although not all gangs are drug organizations, gang membership appears to increase individual participation in drug use and trafficking, gun carrying, violence, and prolonged involvement in drug sales.27 Furthermore, gang activity is no longer a problem that is unique to urban communities. From 1989 to 1995, the percentage of students who reported that street gangs were present at school increased by 186 percent in suburban schools and 250 percent in rural schools. Gangs reportedly operate in 41 percent of urban schools, 26 percent of suburban schools, and 20 percent of rural schools. Long-term solutions to address the problem of gun violence must include a comprehensive approach to reducing the number of youth involved in gangs.
Real Tea Party

Reynoldsburg, OH

#8394 Apr 17, 2014
Thanks Obama for taking steps to take our guns away, I've been waiting for six year when are you going to do that for real???
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#8395 Apr 17, 2014

“The One! The Only! RUKiddingme”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey, Baby!

#8396 Apr 17, 2014
Neutral Party wrote:
But I can get one thing right, you're an AH!
Get a plane ticket to Louisville. Go to 35th and Market and try to buy some drugs. If you don't get robbed and shot first, you will soon after your purchase. I assume your failure to reply will show my anecdotes to be correct.
Wouldn't that be bad for repeat business on the part of the drug dealer?
They cannot kill a Spook

Taylor, MI

#8397 Apr 17, 2014
Neutral Party wrote:
But I can get one thing right, you're an AH!
Get a plane ticket to Louisville. Go to 35th and Market and try to buy some drugs. If you don't get robbed and shot first, you will soon after your purchase. I assume your failure to reply will show my anecdotes to be correct.
You are dead on about trans. It is and A ss hole.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#8398 Apr 18, 2014
Neutral Party wrote:
OK Mr. Wizard,
Here is more proof to support my anecdotes. Of course, you will now discount my simple Google search that show 100's of references to Gun violence and drugs.
Now you stay in Portugal and live your liberal socialist agenda and I will fight for my freedoms here in America.
Now we can try to move the conversation forward a bit. The big issue that I'm seeing with your argument that the drugs are the cause of gun violence, rather than the proliferation of guns or a combination of the two is that you're looking at a single sample in the US where both factors are present. If it is true, as you claim, that the drugs are the real source of the violence, what prevents countries with higher rates of drug use than the US from experiencing rates of violence anywhere approaching that of the US? I chose Portugal as an example as their drug policy is one of the longest running and they have a moderate gun control policy. If you prefer, you could look at any country with a higher or similar drug rate and effective gun control to contrast.

Whilst a Google search is great start, I would love to move into a harder statistical look, rather than anecdotes, if that's possible? I'm happy to explain in a bit more detail how search processes work, but for the moment can assure you that the number of search results don't correlate to effective statistical markers in most casual uses.

Asking yourself big, simple critical thinking questions about your claims should give you all the research questions you need. If you're claiming that gun violence is drug-fuelled, then ask questions like: What is the rate of gun violence in x? What is the rate of drug use in x? Are there statistics on the rate of drug involved gun violence in x? What is it? What are the numbers in y? What is different about y?

To dumb this down a bit, I'm asking: if it's the drugs and not the guns that cause violence, why aren't we seeing this violence in places with more drugs and fewer guns?
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#8399 Apr 18, 2014
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Now we can try to move the conversation forward a bit. The big issue that I'm seeing with your argument that the drugs are the cause of gun violence, rather than the proliferation of guns or a combination of the two is that you're looking at a single sample in the US where both factors are present. If it is true, as you claim, that the drugs are the real source of the violence, what prevents countries with higher rates of drug use than the US from experiencing rates of violence anywhere approaching that of the US? I chose Portugal as an example as their drug policy is one of the longest running and they have a moderate gun control policy. If you prefer, you could look at any country with a higher or similar drug rate and effective gun control to contrast.
Whilst a Google search is great start, I would love to move into a harder statistical look, rather than anecdotes, if that's possible? I'm happy to explain in a bit more detail how search processes work, but for the moment can assure you that the number of search results don't correlate to effective statistical markers in most casual uses.
Asking yourself big, simple critical thinking questions about your claims should give you all the research questions you need. If you're claiming that gun violence is drug-fuelled, then ask questions like: What is the rate of gun violence in x? What is the rate of drug use in x? Are there statistics on the rate of drug involved gun violence in x? What is it? What are the numbers in y? What is different about y?
To dumb this down a bit, I'm asking: if it's the drugs and not the guns that cause violence, why aren't we seeing this violence in places with more drugs and fewer guns?
You think and talk too much. You could have boiled it down to two simple words:

Thanks Obama.

woof

“The One! The Only! RUKiddingme”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey, Baby!

#8400 Apr 18, 2014
LISTEN ALL YOU LAW-ABIDING COLUMBUSITES!!! I've got a gun and I want all your twinkies and chocolate chip cookies! And NACHOS! Oh, wait dude, is that pizza?? PIZZA TOO, DAMMIT!

GIVE IT TO ME NOW OR YOU'RE ALL DEAD!!!

Yeah, I hate it when roving bands of potheads terrorize the cul-de-sac.

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