Deteriorating Families and Gun Violence

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#163 Feb 10, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
Not using 'fertility' in the sense of ability to concieve
But the rate of actual 'procreation'
Please explain how you can procreate without being fertile.
You do the twist better than that Chubby Checker guy.
It is not possible to procreate without being fertile.

However, NOT procreating can be the result of many things.
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#164 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
Interesting note from the website of the Religious Coalition for Religious Choice:
"What does the Bible say about abortion?
"At the time the Bible was written, abortion was widely practiced in spite of heavy penalties. Even so, the Hebrew scriptures had no laws forbidding abortion and there is no condemnation or prohibition of abortion anywhere in the Bible. This was chiefly because the Hebrews placed a higher value on women than their neighbors did. Abortion is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. There are some references to the termination of pregnancy. The most well-known, Exodus 21:22-25, says that if a pregnancy woman has a miscarriage as a result of injuries she receives during a fight between two men, the penalty for the loss of the fetus is a fine. If the woman is killed, the penalty is life for life. It is obvious from this passage that men whose fighting has caused a woman to miscarry were not regarded as murderers because they had not killed the woman. The woman had greater moral and religious worth than the fetus."
It's a biased site with their own interpretation of things. Why don't you quote Rush while you're at it?

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#165 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
Interesting note from the website of the Religious Coalition for Religious Choice:
"What does the Bible say about abortion?
"At the time the Bible was written, abortion was widely practiced in spite of heavy penalties. Even so, the Hebrew scriptures had no laws forbidding abortion and there is no condemnation or prohibition of abortion anywhere in the Bible. This was chiefly because the Hebrews placed a higher value on women than their neighbors did. Abortion is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. There are some references to the termination of pregnancy. The most well-known, Exodus 21:22-25, says that if a pregnancy woman has a miscarriage as a result of injuries she receives during a fight between two men, the penalty for the loss of the fetus is a fine. If the woman is killed, the penalty is life for life. It is obvious from this passage that men whose fighting has caused a woman to miscarry were not regarded as murderers because they had not killed the woman. The woman had greater moral and religious worth than the fetus."
Luke 1:15

"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb."

Human Life = body, soul and spirit before we are born.

Flavius Josephus, a well-known Jewish historian, wrote:

"The law, moreover enjoins us to bring up all our offspring, and forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward; and if any woman appears to have so done, she will be a murderer of her child, by destroying a living creature, and diminishing humankind."
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Columbus, OH

#166 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
Interesting note from the website of the Religious Coalition for Religious Choice:
"What does the Bible say about abortion?
"At the time the Bible was written, abortion was widely practiced in spite of heavy penalties. Even so, the Hebrew scriptures had no laws forbidding abortion and there is no condemnation or prohibition of abortion anywhere in the Bible. This was chiefly because the Hebrews placed a higher value on women than their neighbors did. Abortion is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. There are some references to the termination of pregnancy. The most well-known, Exodus 21:22-25, says that if a pregnancy woman has a miscarriage as a result of injuries she receives during a fight between two men, the penalty for the loss of the fetus is a fine. If the woman is killed, the penalty is life for life. It is obvious from this passage that men whose fighting has caused a woman to miscarry were not regarded as murderers because they had not killed the woman. The woman had greater moral and religious worth than the fetus."
I want a non-biased, scientific site to support your quote that abortions were practiced routinely at the time the Bible was written. Please.
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Columbus, OH

#167 Feb 10, 2013
LOL on the Chubby Checker statement...

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#168 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
Interesting note from the website of the Religious Coalition for Religious Choice:
"What does the Bible say about abortion?
"At the time the Bible was written, abortion was widely practiced in spite of heavy penalties. Even so, the Hebrew scriptures had no laws forbidding abortion and there is no condemnation or prohibition of abortion anywhere in the Bible. This was chiefly because the Hebrews placed a higher value on women than their neighbors did. Abortion is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. There are some references to the termination of pregnancy. The most well-known, Exodus 21:22-25, says that if a pregnancy woman has a miscarriage as a result of injuries she receives during a fight between two men, the penalty for the loss of the fetus is a fine. If the woman is killed, the penalty is life for life. It is obvious from this passage that men whose fighting has caused a woman to miscarry were not regarded as murderers because they had not killed the woman. The woman had greater moral and religious worth than the fetus."
Sorry--that should Religious Coalition for REPRODUCTIVE Choice

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#169 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a biased site with their own interpretation of things. Why don't you quote Rush while you're at it?
Why don't you point out where they are wrong?
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#170 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you point out where they are wrong?
GAWD. You posted a highly biased site and I called you on it. I don't have to point out anything.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#171 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
I want a non-biased, scientific site to support your quote that abortions were practiced routinely at the time the Bible was written. Please.
Here is a site that provides a number of sources: http://web.archive.org/web/20070701172600/htt...

Evidence come primarily from early writings and some archaelogical findings of instruments.

Wiki has a number of good articles with references that cite the state of the laws regarding abortion under the Romans, Greeks and other ancient societies.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#172 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
GAWD. You posted a highly biased site and I called you on it. I don't have to point out anything.
The site has a point of view.

You disagree. That's fine. But the way to further discussion is to point out where you disagree.

For instance, you might cite from Old Testament scripture passages that lead you to believe that abortion was considered sinful or forbidden.
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Columbus, OH

#173 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you point out where they are wrong?
I'm familiar with the group on a personal level. Since I rarely post personal stories, I'll refrain from telling you exactly why I think they're off but the bottom line is this is merely their interpretation of Biblical passages. Already Tip has challenged you with his version of Biblical passages. And so it goes.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#174 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
GAWD. You posted a highly biased site and I called you on it. I don't have to point out anything.
And, by the way, the whole point of posting that site was to counter Serious Lady's repeated assertions that anyone who supports reproductive choice cannot be a Christian.

In fact, within Christianity there are numerous groups and individuals who do so.

That is their point of view, or bias.

You do not have to like it, but it is pretty hard to deny its existence.
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Columbus, OH

#175 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
The site has a point of view.
You disagree. That's fine. But the way to further discussion is to point out where you disagree.
For instance, you might cite from Old Testament scripture passages that lead you to believe that abortion was considered sinful or forbidden.
LOL! Furthering discussion? Like in having a hissing match using Biblical references? Give me a break, Reader. This is not a college philosophy class.

Moreover, it is you who will immediately research the writers of other slanted opinions and then slam said writers as being ill-informed. When the tables are turned, you become defensive. Either buck up and take it like a strong woman, or don't post biased sites. The choice is yours.
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Columbus, OH

#176 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
The site has a point of view.
You disagree. That's fine. But the way to further discussion is to point out where you disagree.
For instance, you might cite from Old Testament scripture passages that lead you to believe that abortion was considered sinful or forbidden.
I asked for a non-biased, scientific site to support this group's assertions. Either find it, or lay off. This back and forth of twisting words and what people say gives me a headache, and I have absolutely no desire to start slinging Biblical passages at you.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#177 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! Furthering discussion? Like in having a hissing match using Biblical references? Give me a break, Reader. This is not a college philosophy class.
Moreover, it is you who will immediately research the writers of other slanted opinions and then slam said writers as being ill-informed. When the tables are turned, you become defensive. Either buck up and take it like a strong woman, or don't post biased sites. The choice is yours.
Religion is pretty much by definition a bias.

I posted a site from a coaltion of religious thinkers in opposition to what Serious Lady claimed is the ONLY acceptable view for people who are Christian.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#178 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm familiar with the group on a personal level. Since I rarely post personal stories, I'll refrain from telling you exactly why I think they're off but the bottom line is this is merely their interpretation of Biblical passages. Already Tip has challenged you with his version of Biblical passages. And so it goes.
It is hard to imagine how personal your experience can be, as it is a national coalition comprised of representatives from a wide range of Christian denominations and other religious groups.

Tip didn't exactly challenge using Biblical passages. He cited a Jewish thinker expressing his opinion.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#179 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
I asked for a non-biased, scientific site to support this group's assertions. Either find it, or lay off. This back and forth of twisting words and what people say gives me a headache, and I have absolutely no desire to start slinging Biblical passages at you.
If you are INTERESTED, which I seriously doubt, I provided two easily accessible sources of information which include a number of links to specific ancient sources which cite the existence of abortion and the existence or non-existence of laws prohibiting it in various cultures.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#180 Feb 10, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! Furthering discussion? Like in having a hissing match using Biblical references? Give me a break, Reader. This is not a college philosophy class.
Moreover, it is you who will immediately research the writers of other slanted opinions and then slam said writers as being ill-informed. When the tables are turned, you become defensive. Either buck up and take it like a strong woman, or don't post biased sites. The choice is yours.
BTW--you seem to be particularly interested in hissing matches.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#181 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
...Tip didn't exactly challenge using Biblical passages. He cited a Jewish thinker expressing his opinion.
Then what exactly was Luke 1:15? And, further, in the Christian realm, God's Word supersedes the practices of men and governments.

Job 31:14-15

What will I do when God confronts me?
What will I answer when called to account?
Did not he who made me in the womb make them?
Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?

Isaiah 45:9-12

Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
those who are nothing but potsherds
among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
‘What are you making?’
Does your work say,
‘The potter has no hands’?
Woe to the one who says to a father,
‘What have you begotten?’
or to a mother,
‘What have you brought to birth?’
“This is what the LORD says --
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?
It is I who made the earth
and created mankind on it.

Psalm 22:9-11

Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

Psalm 51:5-6

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

Psalm 71:5-6

For you have been my hope, Sovereign LORD,
my confidence since my youth.
From birth I have relied on you;
you brought me forth from my mother’s womb.
I will ever praise you.

Psalm 139:13-14

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

Ecclesiastes 11:5

As you do not know the path of the wind,
or how the body is formed[a] in a mother’s womb,
so you cannot understand the work of God,
the Maker of all things.

Isaiah 49:1

Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

Hosea 12:3

In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.

Luke 1:44

As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears,
the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#182 Feb 10, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW--you seem to be particularly interested in hissing matches.
Hardly. I'm not here nearly as often as you, nor do I get the clueless, nuts and spam icons nearly as you, nor have I ever traded Biblical passages back and forth, nor have I ever accused anyone of stalking me, wanting to assault me, etc., etc. Are you gonna have a meltdown like Kosmik's? If so, I'd like to stock up on popcorn.

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