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#223 Feb 12, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm OK with competent parents deciding when and how to broach the subject with their own children.
Even if the results are lots of unintended pregnancies, the spread of disease and kids entering into relationships for which they are not emotionally prepared/mature enough to handle?

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#224 Feb 12, 2013
Mrs Cleaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to admit, I've been to some progressive churches and even THEY don't condone abortion. Twister - funny!
Well, ma'am, apparently you haven't been to them all.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#225 Feb 12, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. I answered all of her questions truthfully and precisely... when she asked. I didn't force knowledge on her that she wasn't ready for.
Fortunately, parents have the option to pull their kids out of public schools and either teach them theirselves or make other arrangements.
In fact, in the Texas example that you offered, parents have the option of withdrawing their children from the particular curriculum. Most do not choose to do so, however.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#226 Feb 12, 2013
For Mrs. Cleaver--some summaries from the Pew Forum:

American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A.
Recognizing the different views on abortion among its members, the American Baptist Churches' General Board encourages women and couples considering the procedure "to seek spiritual counsel as they prayerfully and conscientiously consider their decision." Though the board opposes abortion "as a primary means of birth control," it does not condemn abortion outright.

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that "elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God." Therefore, the church says, any facilitation of or support for this kind of abortion warrants excommunication from the church. However, the church believes that certain circumstances can justify abortion, such as a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother or that has come about as the result of rape or incest.

Episcopal Church
While the Episcopal Church recognizes a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy, the church condones abortion only in cases of rape or incest, cases in which a mother's physical or mental health is at risk, or cases involving fetal abnormalities. The church forbids "abortion as a means of birth control, family planning, sex selection or any reason of mere convenience."

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
The official position of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America states that "abortion prior to viability [of a fetus] should not be prohibited by law or by lack of public funding" but that abortion after the point of fetal viability should be prohibited except when the life of a mother is threatened or when fetal abnormalities pose a fatal threat to a newborn.

Judaism
Traditional Jewish teachings sanction abortion as a means of safeguarding the life and well-being of a mother. While the Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative movements openly advocate for the right to safe and accessible abortions, the Orthodox movement is less unified on the issue.

National Association of Evangelicals
The National Association of Evangelicals has passed a number of resolutions (most recently in 2010) stating its opposition to abortion. However, the organization recognizes that there might be situations in which terminating a pregnancy is warranted such as protecting the life of a mother or in cases of rape or incest.

National Council of Churches
Because of the diverse theological teachings of its member churches, the National Council of Churches does not have an official position on abortion. The NCC instead seeks to provide a space where members can come together and exchange views.

Since: Oct 10

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#228 Feb 12, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
One of these sentences doesn't go with the other.
Which reminds me, where has the Grammer Nazi been?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#229 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if the results are lots of unintended pregnancies, the spread of disease and kids entering into relationships for which they are not emotionally prepared/mature enough to handle?
How about teaching them not only the ramifications listed above, but that the moral thing to do is keep their knees together and "it" in their pants?

Is chastity such a foreign, unpopular concept now? And actually having rules about where your children are and with whom and what they are doing? And be there to see that they follow through?

That's what my parents did and how my nieces and nephews are being raised.

Mainly, teach them self-respect and that their 'body is a temple.'

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#230 Feb 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
Which reminds me, where has the Grammer Nazi been?
Grammar.

Since: Oct 10

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#231 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Many landed in the hospital or died.
The point, dear, is that rendering abortion illegal has very little impact on its existence. In other words, fetuses are not saved.
However, when abortion is illegal (or legal abortions are inaccessible), there is no oversight, nor insurance that the procedure is performed by trained medical personnel, no assurance of sanitary conditions. The rate of death (or near death, damage and the like) is very high.
So--maybe you need to dial back a bit on your ha-ha attitude toward the woman who received an abortion in an RV and then died. I would suggest that neither of us knows her story or what drove her to what was clearly a desperate act.
Twister, we both know what lead her to this. Irresponsible actions, lack of self-respect and having sex. I doubt there has ever been an abortion of a pregnancy conceived through artifical insemination, unless the mother's life was at risk.

You, more than anyone on this post, knows that adoption is a better and viable solution.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#232 Feb 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
How about teaching them not only the ramifications listed above, but that the moral thing to do is keep their knees together and "it" in their pants?
Is chastity such a foreign, unpopular concept now? And actually having rules about where your children are and with whom and what they are doing? And be there to see that they follow through?
That's what my parents did and how my nieces and nephews are being raised.
Mainly, teach them self-respect and that their 'body is a temple.'
The people in Texas saw a problem. They enacted a proven solution. Apparently the parents are largely supportive.

So--your solution would be ...

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#233 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
For Mrs. Cleaver--some summaries from the Pew Forum:
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A.
Recognizing the different views on abortion among its members, the American Baptist Churches' General Board encourages women and couples considering the procedure "to seek spiritual counsel as they prayerfully and conscientiously consider their decision." Though the board opposes abortion "as a primary means of birth control," it does not condemn abortion outright.
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that "elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God." Therefore, the church says, any facilitation of or support for this kind of abortion warrants excommunication from the church. However, the church believes that certain circumstances can justify abortion, such as a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother or that has come about as the result of rape or incest.
Episcopal Church
While the Episcopal Church recognizes a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy, the church condones abortion only in cases of rape or incest, cases in which a mother's physical or mental health is at risk, or cases involving fetal abnormalities. The church forbids "abortion as a means of birth control, family planning, sex selection or any reason of mere convenience."
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
The official position of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America states that "abortion prior to viability [of a fetus] should not be prohibited by law or by lack of public funding" but that abortion after the point of fetal viability should be prohibited except when the life of a mother is threatened or when fetal abnormalities pose a fatal threat to a newborn.
Judaism
Traditional Jewish teachings sanction abortion as a means of safeguarding the life and well-being of a mother. While the Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative movements openly advocate for the right to safe and accessible abortions, the Orthodox movement is less unified on the issue.
National Association of Evangelicals
The National Association of Evangelicals has passed a number of resolutions (most recently in 2010) stating its opposition to abortion. However, the organization recognizes that there might be situations in which terminating a pregnancy is warranted such as protecting the life of a mother or in cases of rape or incest.
National Council of Churches
Because of the diverse theological teachings of its member churches, the National Council of Churches does not have an official position on abortion. The NCC instead seeks to provide a space where members can come together and exchange views.
I, for one, don't give a flying fig what any politically-correct mainstream religious organization declares.

God values his creation from conception.
The Bible says so.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#234 Feb 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
Twister, we both know what lead her to this. Irresponsible actions, lack of self-respect and having sex. I doubt there has ever been an abortion of a pregnancy conceived through artifical insemination, unless the mother's life was at risk.
You, more than anyone on this post, knows that adoption is a better and viable solution.
SL--I can imagine dozens of alternate explanations. Beginning with rape. Moving forward through economic desperation, an abusive husband or partner, a whole slew of things related to addiction, a certainty of chronic and painful disability leading to death, mental illness or other such limitation on the part of the mother.

If you can substantiate your explanation for this particular case, feel free to offer up the facts.

I would put forward that someone who is performing late-term abortions in an RV is doing so in violation of all regulations, laws and a bunch of other things. And maybe you don't recall from pre-Roe v Wade days, but when no abortions were legal, the fact was that some practitioners were benevolent folks providing a service that they believed in, while many others were simply taking advantage of women in desperate situations.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#235 Feb 12, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I, for one, don't give a flying fig what any politically-correct mainstream religious organization declares.
God values his creation from conception.
The Bible says so.
Maybe you need to go into ministry then. Start your own church.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#236 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you need to go into ministry then. Start your own church.
Maybe you need to burn Reader's Revised Version of the Formerly Holy Scriptures.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#237 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if the results are lots of unintended pregnancies, the spread of disease and kids entering into relationships for which they are not emotionally prepared/mature enough to handle?
That won't happen with competent parenting (unless the child is raped). The problem then becomes the competency of parenting, so you should address that.

But you won't, because it's only by continued excusing of malicious or incompetent actors that you would have anything to do in your old age.

And I'm sure you'll be pleased that a Massachusetts school is passing out condoms to first graders.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cond...

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#238 Feb 12, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I, for one, don't give a flying fig what any politically-correct mainstream religious organization declares.
God values his creation from conception.
The Bible says so.
Entirely my sentiments. And for the last one that doesn't take a stance one way or the other....That's condoning abortion...just being too much of a coward about saying so.

The politically correct, mainsteam 'churches' or religious organizations aree doing much harm and are, in my mind, the work of satan.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#239 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
SL--I can imagine dozens of alternate explanations. Beginning with rape. Moving forward through economic desperation, an abusive husband or partner, a whole slew of things related to addiction, a certainty of chronic and painful disability leading to death, mental illness or other such limitation on the part of the mother.
If you can substantiate your explanation for this particular case, feel free to offer up the facts.
I would put forward that someone who is performing late-term abortions in an RV is doing so in violation of all regulations, laws and a bunch of other things. And maybe you don't recall from pre-Roe v Wade days, but when no abortions were legal, the fact was that some practitioners were benevolent folks providing a service that they believed in, while many others were simply taking advantage of women in desperate situations.
You cannot stop twisting! No one on this thread has objected to a medically provided abortion in the case of rape, incest, the health of the mother or if the unborn child is guaranteed to be born with life long maladies that will cause it physical pain and disability.

The other reasons you list, abusive partner, economic issues, drug addition...to me they do not warrent the death of the child. They are all surmountable.

Other than that, there is no 'benevolent' abortion.

So will you Knock it off with that insinuation?

I don't remember Roe v. Wade or what year the decision was brought down by SCOTUS.

The moral imperative here is 'thou shalt not kill.'

As far as far the woman or girl who died after having an abortion in a drive-by abortion RV, perhaps in her last moments she confessed her sin with her mouth, felt it in her heart and received God's forgiveness. No one knows.

I ask you again, when do the babies have a choice?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#240 Feb 12, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
The people in Texas saw a problem. They enacted a proven solution. Apparently the parents are largely supportive.
So--your solution would be ...
Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. The people in Texas..........fill me in if you feel like it.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#241 Feb 12, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
That won't happen with competent parenting (unless the child is raped). The problem then becomes the competency of parenting, so you should address that.
But you won't, because it's only by continued excusing of malicious or incompetent actors that you would have anything to do in your old age.
And I'm sure you'll be pleased that a Massachusetts school is passing out condoms to first graders.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cond...
1) That is in fact what was/is happening.

2) The parents (whether you personally agree that they are competent or not) seem to be supporting this program which (by law) stresses abstinence, but also includes contraceptive information.

3) No, a Massachussetts school is not handing out condoms to first graders. They simply refused to set a lower age for responding to students who approach a counselor with questions.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#242 Feb 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. The people in Texas..........fill me in if you feel like it.
You really have to follow the threads that you are diving into, but it went something like this.

Tony claimed that schools were teaching fifth graders how to put condoms on bananas. I challenged him on this. He produced an article about a progam in some Texas schools, which I read, although apparently Tony didn't bother.

The program has a proven track record of impacting sexual activity (lowering it) among teens, as well as lowering the rate of teen pregnancy. By law, any such program in Texas schools must focus more heavily on abstinence, but local districts have the option of including contraceptive information as well.

Apparently the parents in schools where this program has been implemented are satisfied with it. Although they have the option of refusing to allow their child to participate, over 90% agree. And the program--despite Tony's claim about bananas--doesn't start until 7th grade. And there was nothing mentioned about the demonstration of how to use a condom--although such a demonstration is very helpful (in my opinion).

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#243 Feb 12, 2013
Seriouslady wrote:
<quoted text>
Entirely my sentiments. And for the last one that doesn't take a stance one way or the other....That's condoning abortion...just being too much of a coward about saying so.
The politically correct, mainsteam 'churches' or religious organizations aree doing much harm and are, in my mind, the work of satan.
Just out of curiousity, are you a church member?

Does your church have a national organization of any sort? Criteria for ordination? Or is it just an every man for himself with his Bible type of thing?

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