Ohio won't ask feds to reimburse money for dead 3-C rail plan | The Columbus Dispatch

Full story: Columbus Dispatch

Ohio has decided not to press for federal reimbursement of $1.3 million the state spent on a high-speed rail project that has been abandoned.
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101 - 113 of 113 Comments Last updated Jun 27, 2011
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Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#112 Jun 22, 2011
latte thunder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you didn't look up externality or economy of scale, did you?
It's not economy of scale if everybody isn't using or doesn't WANT the product! It's tyranny telling people what they want or need.

There are HUNDREDS of cities in this country who got Federal funds to buy 50-passenger buses that only 4 or 5 people at a time ride on. Or "rail" systems costing tens of millions that no or only a few ride (google "empty trains", for example). You call that ECONOMY?

I live in a rural area and I grow much of my own food and trade with neighbors for some. I work mostly from home. I drive less than 200 miles per month. I don't need nor do I benefit in any way from mass transit! Those who (think they will) save money by riding a train instead of driving are CHOOSING to do so for THEIR benefit, so they should bear ALL of the costs.

The "extrenality" to me is a negative one, and that is becoming less and less acceptable to an increasing part of the population. Can you REALLY not see what's coming?
Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#113 Jun 22, 2011
latte thunder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you didn't look up externality or economy of scale, did you?
It's not economy of scale if everybody isn't using or doesn't WANT the product! It's tyranny telling people what they want or need.

There are HUNDREDS of cities in this country who got Federal funds to buy 50-passenger buses that only 4 or 5 people at a time ride on. Or "rail" systems costing tens of millions that no or only a few ride (google "empty trains", for example). You call that ECONOMY?

I live in a rural area and I grow much of my own food and trade with neighbors for some. I work mostly from home. I drive less than 200 miles per month. I don't need nor do I benefit in any way from mass transit! Those who (think they will) save money by riding a train instead of driving are CHOOSING to do so for THEIR benefit, so they should bear ALL of the costs.

The "extrenality" to most people is a negative one (in essence, the riders are being subsidized by the non-riders... effectively making it little more than another form of WELFARE!), and that is becoming less and less acceptable to an increasing part of the population. Can you REALLY not see what's coming?
Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#114 Jun 22, 2011
Sorry for the repeat. It came up with a 'page not found' error and I thought it didn't go.

Since: Mar 11

Columbus, OH

#115 Jun 22, 2011
Tony wrote:
<quoted text>
The "extrenality" to most people is a negative one (in essence, the riders are being subsidized by the non-riders... effectively making it little more than another form of WELFARE!), and that is becoming less and less acceptable to an increasing part of the population. Can you REALLY not see what's coming?
There have been many studies done on the positive externalities of public transit. It's not just about whether or not YOU ride it. I'm not sure If you understood the definition of "externality" but maybe you should do some research on the subject. It's pretty obvious from your comments that you don't quite understand the full issue.

As for economies of scale... you really have to understand the externalities issue for this to make sense to you in terms of public transit. Let's use the earlier examples of police and school services, you didn't pay as much for sending your kids to school, or for having a police department, or for having side walks, or a paved road, etc as you would have if you had done it alone. The community took the initiative to provide these services and because they did it on a larger scale, it cost each member of your community less.
Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#116 Jun 22, 2011
latte thunder wrote:
There have been many studies done on the positive externalities of public transit. It's not just about whether or not YOU ride it.
No, it's how much I BENEFIT from it vs. how much I pay for it, and there is an infinitesimally small chance of it ever benefiting me.
I'm not sure If you understood the definition of "externality" but maybe you should do some research on the subject. It's pretty obvious from your comments that you don't quite understand the full issue.
I understand it just fine. I suspect that you don't understand it as much as you merely like the big words.
As for economies of scale... you really have to understand the externalities issue for this to make sense to you in terms of public transit.
Someone rides the train. Someone else benefits (in theory) from a less crowded freeway or from less pollution as a consequence. It might make your car last longer, or make it so you don't feel you have to buy one at all. On the other hand, it could be a negative for car companies, who might sell fewer cars, and for any employees who might have to be laid off as a consequence. And how much property around the planned stops is going to have to be cleared (or if you prefer, how many people are going to get thrown out of their homes...) to make way for anticipated parking needs? And how much noise is going to be generated as it passes close to homes?

As for economy, that's only for the people who ride it (and even THAT is debatable, time-wise OR cost-wise) and those who gain directly from that rider's savings.
Let's use the earlier examples of police and school services, you didn't pay as much for sending your kids to school, or for having a police department, or for having side walks, or a paved road, etc as you would have if you had done it alone.
Ah yes... we spend, per student, 50% more than Japan, who has better results and who has fewer children... and you want to claim an economy of scale? Riiiiiight!

Here's something a little closer to analogous. Suppose I move to South Bass Island. Suppose I then got all the residents to sign a petition to demand that the state build a bridge from there to Catawba Point. Should they collectively be able to demand it in order to save them $15-$30 a day(After all, in theory anyone would have the right to use that bridge (even though we all know most would not) so we could claim that they'd ALL save that much in order to justify the cost, right? and a bridge is statistically safer than a ferry, right?)? And should the (commercial) ferry companies have a say? After all, the bridge would put a big dent in their business...

It appears that you either have no concept of personal responsibility and accountability, or that you do, but deliberately reject them. That will probably not serve you and yours well in the not-too-distant future. You really can't look at world events and have any inkling of whats coming... How ironic... the people who think they are "so enlightened" are about to get the biggest shock of your (ahem) collective lives!

Since: Mar 11

Columbus, OH

#117 Jun 23, 2011
Tony wrote:
<quoted text>
1. No, it's how much I BENEFIT from it vs. how much I pay for it, and there is an infinitesimally small chance of it ever benefiting me.
2. I understand it just fine. I suspect that you don't understand it as much as you merely like the big words.
3. Someone rides the train. Someone else benefits (in theory) from a less crowded freeway or from less pollution as a consequence.
1. It's still clear you haven't done any research.

2. Considering I'm a grad student studying this sort of thing, I'm willing to bet my understanding of it is greater than yours. If what you've written on here is an example of your level of understanding, I'll bet cash!

3. THAT IS NOT THE BENEFIT OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. Studies have proven that the attempts to "lessen" traffic rarely work. Why's that? Cause if you make it easier to get somewhere, more people will start to show up. So, what are the benefits for cities when they have more people traveling through them? Think harder. THERES AN ECONOMIC BENEFIT! So assuming you aren't retired, an economic boost will benefit you as well. If you are retired, then it'll benefit your children and grandchildren. Without you ever having to step on a bus.

Also, the thing about our cost of educating our children vs Japan's is NOT an example of economy of scale. Two completely different markets.
Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#118 Jun 23, 2011
latte thunder wrote:
2. Considering I'm a grad student studying this sort of thing, I'm willing to bet my understanding of it is greater than yours. If what you've written on here is an example of your level of understanding, I'll bet cash!
Just as I thought... Young idealist thinks he knows it all... Thinks big city to big city is all there is for anyone and everything between is just so much dirt to be trodden on.

Your "understanding" is dismal.

Since: Mar 11

Columbus, OH

#119 Jun 23, 2011
Tony wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as I thought... Young idealist thinks he knows it all... Thinks big city to big city is all there is for anyone and everything between is just so much dirt to be trodden on.
Your "understanding" is dismal.
LOL, you are SO off. Grew up in a village of 4,000, NOT male, and I'm RETURNING TO SCHOOL.

But hey, you've been known to be WAY off base before...
Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#120 Jun 23, 2011
Why? Need "the piece of paper" for something?

Since: Mar 11

Columbus, OH

#121 Jun 23, 2011
Tony wrote:
Why? Need "the piece of paper" for something?
I actually ENJOY learning (that way I know what I'm talking about!)
Tony

Chillicothe, OH

#122 Jun 24, 2011
latte thunder wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually ENJOY learning (that way I know what I'm talking about!)
Of course, but there are ways to learn that don't require large sums of money.

Since: Mar 11

Columbus, OH

#123 Jun 24, 2011
Tony wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, but there are ways to learn that don't require large sums of money.
depends on what you're learning.

Since: Oct 10

Upper Arlington, OH

#124 Jun 27, 2011
Tony wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't drive, I don't think you should be. See message immediately before this one.
Yeah right....good luck policing that one buddy.

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