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Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#21 Sep 26, 2013
Christians for Palestine

A vocal majority of evangelical Christians are zealous supporters of Israel. But a growing movement seeks to align them with the Palestinian cause.

By Lee Smith
April 18, 2012 7:00 AM


For most American Jews and Israelis, evangelical Christians are synonymous with zealous, biblically inspired support of the Jewish state—so zealous, in fact, that it makes some Jews uneasy. But the days when Israel could count on unconditional support from evangelicals may be coming to an end.

Last month, a conference convened in Bethlehem by Palestinian activists and Christian clergy long at odds with the Jewish state managed to bring a number of leading lights from the evangelical community in North America and Europe to the Holy Land. Many of the speeches at the conference touched on themes that one would commonly hear at a BDS teach-in, like blaming the entire Middle East conflict on Israel’s occupation and the settlements.

Indeed, the name of the conference, Christ at the Checkpoint, is indicative of the different direction this segment of the evangelical movement is heading toward. The idea is that evangelicals should rethink their support for a state that occupies another people and oppresses them. Once they get the full story, conference organizers hope, Western evangelicals may find they have more in common with the downtrodden Palestinians than with the Israelis.

To pro-Israel evangelicals and Zionists who were paying attention, Christ at the Checkpoint was a wake-up call. The larger trend, which for want of a better phrase might be called the pro-Palestinian evangelical movement and is indeed spearheaded by Palestinian Christians, is already changing minds. Giving them momentum are money raised in the United States, theology, and perhaps most important of all, a movie. The documentary film With God on Our Side is leaving many former pro-Israel evangelicals wondering why they never heard the Palestinian side of the story.

Many friends of Israel, as well as Israelis, have long been concerned that evangelical support is premised largely on self-interest of an especially macabre nature. Israel, in this reading, is ground zero for the apocalypse: Before Christ can return to Earth, the Jews must return to Israel and the Temple must be restored, ushering in first a time of tribulation and then a reign of peace.

Of course, the apocalypse and Christ’s return is not the only justification for Christian support of Israel. Indeed, this end-time scenario embarrasses some evangelicals whose support is premised on the idea that God keeps his promises, not only to Christians but also to Jews, to whom God pledged the land of Israel. This conviction is further buttressed by a sense of historical responsibility, specifically to stand with the Jews and atone for the failure of Christians during the Holocaust to save the nation that gave them their savior.

Though the vast majority of evangelicals still maintain that support, for the first time since the establishment of Israel in 1948, there is an increasingly heated debate in the evangelical community that may augur a shift in the political winds. And if the Christ at the Checkpoint camp wins out, the pro-Israel Jewish community that once looked warily upon evangelical support may come to regard that movement with nostalgia.

Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#22 Sep 26, 2013
Continued ...

... This gap has made room for people across the cultural and ideological spectrum—whose motivations run the gamut from genuine compassion for Palestinians to anti-Semitism—to fill the space with their own interpretations of contemporary Middle East history. Not surprisingly, many of these narratives tend to be drawn from precincts of the left, like the BDS movement, that are known for their hostility to the Jewish state. What is peculiar is that these accounts are being entertained and sometimes embraced in evangelical churches, Bible schools, and Christian colleges that are not typically known for their progressive politics.

It wasn’t difficult for these Christian critics of Israel to find a weak link in the Christian Zionist narrative—it’s the ethical morass inherent in the formulation of Genesis 12:3. The children of the Bible, Christians as well as Jews, believe that all people are created in God’s image and are therefore born with individual dignity. But if people of faith are supposed to bless Israel because they’ll be blessed in return, then they are treating others, Jews and Arabs, not as individuals but rather as instruments in their own spiritual drama.

You can’t treat people as chess pieces, says Porter Speakman Jr., the 40-year-old director of With God on Our Side. This 82-minute-long documentary, which premiered in 2010 and is now being shown at churches and college campuses, has had a major role in tilting evangelical opinion, especially among young people, against Israel. Speakman told me in a phone interview that isn’t aim isn’t to “delegitimize Israel, but to be critical of policies that are having an effect on real people’s lives.”

“I grew up in a Christian home in the south, where not to support Israel was to go against God,” Speakman told me. He said he made the film in order to explore a question that he thinks has been missing from the conversation in the evangelical community. That is:“What are the consequences of my beliefs and my theology for real people living on the ground?”

With God on Our Side follows the intellectual odyssey of Christopher Harrell, a twenty-something recent film-school graduate, who is trying to come to grips with the reality of the Arab-Israeli conflict. This is a very different story from the Bible-based injunctions that formed his spiritual life as a child. The film’s narrative trajectory starts with Harrell’s parents, who he recalls once celebrated Passover—“I’m not sure why we did that. We’re not Jewish. We’re just this normal American Midwestern family”—and who support Israel because that’s “just what everyone did.” The film moves then to a series of interviews with figures in the evangelical community known for their animus toward Zionism, like Gary Burge and Stephen Sizer, and writers outside the evangelical milieu whose reputation rests on their hostility to Israel, like Ilan Pappé and Norman Finkelstein.

These interviews challenge the mainstream evangelical narrative with well-worn accusations typical of BDSers. For instance, the Israeli occupation, says one South African evangelical, is “apartheid on steroids.”

“Growing up,” Speakman said of his childhood,“there was never a choice, you were supposed to love and support Israel. That meant following Genesis 12 as well as a fulfillment of endtime prophecies. But does supporting Israel mean supporting all of Israel’s geopolitical decisions?”
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#23 Sep 26, 2013
Continued ...

Speakman, who lived in Israel with his wife from 1998 until 2003, said that he thinks the role of Christians is to support both Jews and Arabs in their search for a solution. But some critics of his documentary think that the film goes much further. They see it as making the case that evangelicals have taken the wrong side—favoring a nation inhabited by those who rejected Jesus as their savior rather than the Christian communities that have existed in the Holy Land since the time of Christ. The issue is that key segments of the Palestinian Christian community have a vested political interest in delegitimizing Zionism—a fact that Speakman and other Western activists in the evangelical community may or may not be aware of.

According to Randy Neal, Western Regional Coordinator of CUFI, the ideological foundations of the pro-Palestinian Christian movement are grounded in both liberation theology and replacement theology. The first is a politicized doctrine that requires a continual mindset of victimhood, in order to solicit political sympathy and action on behalf of the “oppressed” against the “oppressors.” The latter holds that the church has replaced Jews as God’s chosen and become the real Israel.

“It’s not just that church has replaced Israel,” said Neal, but for many of the Palestinian Christian clergy and their activist sympathizers,“the Palestinian church is the real church. Jesus, on this reading, was an underdog, who came to champion the underdog. He was oppressed by the Romans, so if you are Christ-like, you are also oppressed, like the Palestinians. This increasingly includes the idea that Jesus was a Palestinian. It’s an adopted narrative that is believed to have started with Yasser Arafat, but to some people it’s become a gospel fact.”

Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#24 Sep 26, 2013
More ...

Palestinian Christians Against the Occupation
Posted: 05/ 1/2012 6:29 am

Philip Farah
Co-founder, Palestinian American Christians for Peace

In a recent op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren claimed that Christians in Israel are better off than their brethren anywhere else in the Middle East. Two Sundays ago, "60 Minutes" made clear he attempted to intimidate Bob Simon by going over Simon's head to speak to Jeff Fager, the head of CBS News and executive producer of "60 Minutes," to complain that Simon's story on Christian Palestinians was "a hatchet job" against Israel. In fact, it was a hard-hitting, but honest piece in which Simon helped to expose the terrible harm the Israeli occupation -- not Muslim Palestinians as the ambassador claimed -- is doing to Christian Palestinians in the Holy Land.

I am a Palestinian Christian, now a U.S. citizen, and my own experience and that of my family attest to the falsity of Ambassador Oren's assertion. I was born in East Jerusalem, Jordan in 1952, only a few years after my family and the majority of Palestinians fled from their homes when the newly established Jewish state took over three-quarters of historical Palestine. My family, like almost all the other Palestinians who fled -- Christians and Muslims alike -- became refugees, losing their fields, orchards, homes and practically everything else, to Israel. Israel defied the international consensus and a U.N. resolution calling on it to allow the Palestinian refugees to return.

Had Israel allowed the Palestinians to return, it would not have become a majority Jewish state. Israel's fear of a Palestinian presence within its borders continues to drive its brutal policies of occupation, which victimize Palestinian Christians as well as Muslims. Israel occupied the rest of historical Palestine in 1967, gaining control over a large Palestinian Arab population which many Israelis view as a threat to the "Jewish character" of their country.

There is a simple test of Ambassador Oren's claims: I say to him, "Mr. Ambassador: If your country is so good to Christians, why don't you allow me, my family and thousands of Palestinian Christians to return to our homes in the part of Jerusalem which Israel occupied in 1967 or the western part of the city from which Palestinians were forced out in 1948? Why is it that any Jew from any country in the world can claim full rights of citizenship as soon as he or she sets foot in Jerusalem, while I, whose family roots in Jerusalem go back many centuries, am barred from living with full human rights in my hometown?"

Ask Ambassador Oren about the Palestinians who hail from the predominantly Christian villages of Iqrit and Kufr Bir'im which, like the majority of Palestinian Arab villages, were razed to the ground after 1948. Iqrit and Kufr Bir'im are only two of many such Christian villages, but well known because of the long -- but unfortunately failed -- campaign waged on their behalf by courageous Israeli human rights advocates.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#25 Sep 26, 2013
Continued ...

There is no doubt that Arab Christians face problems in the Middle East. The worst examples were during the Lebanese civil war and in the aftermath of the war in Iraq, when political and economic stability collapsed. Israel's attacks on Lebanon played a major role in destabilizing that country, and Israeli hawks cheered the loudest for the U.S. invasion which destabilized Iraq.

Palestinian Christians are, indeed, worried about the militancy of extremists who cloak themselves in distorted Islamic rhetoric. Yet, the majority of Palestinian Muslims and Christians have chosen peaceful resistance. To say that Hamas is the cause of the declining Christian population in the occupied Palestinian territories is standing the truth on its head.

Our people are fleeing their homeland because the Israelis are confiscating the land of Palestinians -- Muslims and Christians alike -- to build Jewish-only settlements and the Apartheid Wall which is ghettoizing many Palestinian communities. Palestinian Christians are leaving because of Israeli checkpoints and barriers that severely restrict the freedom of movement of Palestinians, destroying their economy and preventing their access to their holy places in Jerusalem. They are leaving because Israel diverts Palestinian water resources in a way that gives illegal Jewish settlements the right to enjoy swimming pools while the fields of Palestinian farmers next door go fallow for lack of water.

But Palestinian Christians are speaking for themselves through the Kairos Palestine Document:
"We, a group of Christian Palestinians, after prayer, reflection and an exchange of opinion, cry out from within the suffering in our country, under the Israeli occupation.... Today, we bear the strength of love rather than that of revenge, a culture of life rather than a culture of death....[We] endorse nonviolent resistance based on hope and love that puts an end to evil by walking in the ways of justice."

There is no difference at all in the degree of suffering that Palestinian Christians and Muslims are experiencing under Israel's long military occupation. To suggest that Palestinian Christians are doing well under Israeli domination couldn't be further from the truth.

American Methodists and Presbyterians are increasingly troubled by Israel's ongoing subjugation of Palestinians -- Christians and Muslims alike. Though they have long-standing concerns for the welfare of Israelis, many Methodists and Presbyterians believe the time has come to move beyond words and into actively demonstrating to this right-wing Israeli government that they will not stand aside silently as Israel oppresses generation after generation of Palestinians.

In the days and weeks ahead, both the United Methodist Church and the Presbyterian Church (USA) will consider resolutions to divest themselves from companies -- Caterpillar, Motorola Solutions and Hewlett Packard -- profiting from Israel's ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories.

If they do so, they will be alerting the Israeli government that the occupation will no longer be tolerated as business as usual. Palestinians have the right to live free of Israeli domination. Methodists and Presbyterians alike could send a very strong message to the Israeli and American governments if they move ahead with these sensible resolutions to divest from companies that shamefully benefit from the repression of Palestinians.

Philip Farah is the co-founder of Palestinian American Christians for Peace and of the Washington Interfaith Alliance for Middle East Peace, .
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#26 Sep 26, 2013
For Dunadd:

Bottom line is that the Palestinians are not all "Muslims". The descendants of the original Christians are also Palestinians, too.

Start doing some Googling and educate yourself.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#27 Sep 26, 2013
One last one .... from The American Conservative:

Forgotten Christians

Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ” is playing to full houses in the Syrian capital Damascus. Watching it here turns out to be much the same as watching it on opening night in New York—customarily rowdy moviegoers observe a reverent silence, the usual sound of candy wrappers is replaced by sobbing and gasping, and, at the end of it all, the audience files out of the theater in silence and contemplation. Many of those watching the movie on this occasion are Palestinian Christian refugees whose parents or grandparents were purged from their homeland—the land of Christ—at the foundation of Israel in 1948. For them the movie has an underlying symbolic meaning not easily perceived in the West: not only is it a depiction of the trial, scourging, and death of Jesus, it is also a symbolic depiction of the fate of the Palestinian people.“This is how we feel,” says Zaki, a 27-year old Palestinian Christian whose family hails from Haifa.“We take beating after beating at the hands of the world, they crucify our people, they insult us, but we refuse to surrender.”

At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.

In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.

Today it is believed that the number of Christians in Israel and occupied Palestine number some 175,000, just over 2 percent of the entire population, but the numbers are rapidly dwindling due to mass emigration. Of those who have remained in the region, most live in Lebanon, where they share in the same bottomless misery as all other refugees, confined to camps where schools are under-funded and overcrowded, where housing is ramshackle, and sanitary conditions are appalling. Most, however, have fled the region altogether. No reliable figures are available, but it is estimated that between 100,000 and 300,000 Palestinian Christians currently live in the U.S.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#28 Sep 26, 2013
Continued ...

The Palestinian Christians see themselves, and are seen by their Muslim compatriots, as an integral part of the Palestinian people, and they have long been a vital part of the Palestinian struggle. As the Anglican bishop of Jerusalem, the Reverend Riah Abu al-Assal has explained,“The Arab Palestinian Christians are part and parcel of the Arab Palestinian nation. We have the same history, the same culture, the same habits and the same hopes.”

Yet U.S. media and politicians have become accustomed to thinking of and talking about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as one in which an enlightened democracy is constantly forced to repel attacks from crazy-eyed Islamists bent on the destruction of the Jewish people and the imposition of an Islamic state. Palestinians are equated with Islamists, Islamists with terrorists. It is presumably because all organized Christian activity among Palestinians is non-political and non-violent that the community hardly ever hits the Western headlines; suicide bombers sell more copy than people who congregate for Bible study.

Lebanese and Syrian Christians were essential in the conception of Arab nationalism as a general school of anti-colonial thought following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the beginning of the 20th century. During the 1930s, Hajj Amin al-Hussein, the leader of the Palestinian struggle against the British colonialists, surrounded himself with Christian advisors and functionaries. In the 1950s and ’60s, as the various factions that were to form the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) emerged, some of the most prominent militants were yet again of Christian origin. For instance, George Habash, a Greek Orthodox medical doctor from al-Lod, created the Arab Nationalists’ Movement and went on to found the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Naif Hawatmeh, also Greek Orthodox, from al-Salt in Jordan, founded and still today heads up the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Among those better regarded in the West, Hannan Ashrawi, one of the Palestinian Authority’s most effective spokespersons, is a Christian.

In fact, over the decades, many of the rank and file among the secular nationalist groups of the PLO have been Christians who have seen leftist nationalist politics as the only alternative to both Islamism and Western liberalism, the former objectionable because of its religiously exclusive nature, the latter due to what is seen by many as its inherent protection of Israel and the Zionist project.

Among the remnant communities in Palestine, most belong to the traditional Christian confessions. The largest group is Greek Orthodox, followed by Catholics (Roman, Syrian, Maronite, and Melkite), Armenian Orthodox, Anglicans, and Lutherans. There is also a small but influential Quaker presence. These communities are centered in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, and Ramallah.

For them, the conflict with Israel is quite obviously not about Islamism contra enlightenment but simply about resistance against occupation. To be sure, there have been periods of tension between the Christian communities and members of the Islamist groups, yet to many Christian Palestinians the Islamist movements have emerged by default as the heroes in the conflict with Israel. Following the incremental atrophy of leftist ideals, the Islamists are seen as the only ones who are willing and able to fight the occupation. The Lebanese Hezbollah, widely seen as a nonsectarian organization that is able to cooperate with people of all faiths, is particularly admired both among the refugees in Lebanon as well as those who remain in Palestine.“We have received far more support and comfort from the Hezbollah in Lebanon than from our fellow Christians in the West,” remarked one Christian Palestinian refugee in Damascus.“I want to know, why don’t the Christians in the West do anything to help us? Are the teachings of Jesus nothing but empty slogans to them?”
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#29 Sep 26, 2013
Continued ...

This is a justified and important question, but the answer is not straightforward. The Catholic Church has, in fact, long argued for an end to the Israeli occupation and for improvement of the Palestinians’ situation. The leaders of the Eastern Orthodox churches have taken similar, often more strongly worded positions. Likewise, many Lutheran and Calvinist churches run organizations and programs that seek to ease the suffering of the Palestinians and draw attention to the injustices with which they are faced. Usually working within strictly religious frames of reference, however, their impact on the political situation has been minimal.

This political limitation has not applied to those parts of the Evangelical movement that have adopted Zionism as a core element of their religious doctrine. Christian Zionists in the U.S. are currently organized in an alliance with the pro-Israel lobby and the neoconservative elements of the Republican Party, enabling them to put significant pressure on both the president and members of Congress. In fact, they are among the most influential shapers of policy in the country, including individuals such as Ralph Reed, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell, and groups such as the National Unity Coalition for Israel, Christians for Israel, the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem, and Chosen People Ministries.

Christian Zionism is an odd thing on many levels. A key tenet of Christian Zionism is absolute support for Israel, whose establishment and existence, it is believed, heralds Armageddon and the second coming of Christ. The politically relevant upshot of this is that without Israel’s expansion there can be no redemption, and those who subscribe to this interpretation are only too eager to sacrifice their Palestinian fellow Christians on the altar of Zionism. They do not want to hear about coreligionists’ suffering at the hands of Israel.


Christians find themselves under the hammer of the Israeli occupation to no less an extent than Muslims, yet America—supposedly a Christian country—stands idly by because its most politically influential Christians have decided that Palestinian Christians are acceptable collateral damage in their apocalyptic quest.“To be a Christian from the land of Christ is an honor,” says Abbas, a Palestinian Christian whose family lived in Jerusalem for many generations until the purge of 1948.“To be expelled from that land is an injury, and these Zionist Christians in America add insult.” Abbas is one of the handful of Palestinian Christians that could be described as Evangelical, belonging to a group that appears to be distantly related to the Plymouth Brethren. Cherishing the role of devil’s advocate, I had to ask him,“Is the State of Israel not in fact the fulfillment of God’s promise and a necessary step in the second coming of Christ?” Abbas looked at me briefly and laughed.“You’re kidding, right? You know what they do to our people and our land. If I thought that was part of God’s plan, I’d be an atheist in a second.”


Anders Strindberg is an academic and a journalist specializing in Mideast politics.

Greensboro, NC

#30 Sep 26, 2013
Thanks for the pass, Enzyte Bob. As I am short on time and can't read all your posts, I took the privilege to only respond to your direct response to me without reading your entire posts which I will do at my convenience and respond as I hae some important items of business to take care of and prolly won't get home until late tonight.
Saying that, the difference between your 95 percent and my not 95 percent is you are equating Christians with the Roman Catholic Church whereas when I say or write Christian, I am meaning the whole kit and kaboodle including the Roman Catholics and all other sects and denominations. I include Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Baptists, Methodists, etc etc the whole nine yards.
Being in your jargon Roman Catholic=Christian we will never agree as two parallel lines never cross.
I am well aware the Papacy speaks for all Roman Catholicy and Jews are definitely not in the papacy's list of close friends and/or compadres.
In my jargon the Degar Christians are just as much Christian as the Roman Catholics. Whereas your 95 percent of Christians in Israel are only those of the Roman Catholic faith.
Thank you for your time and I will read all your posts since your answer to my post at my own convenient time as folks like me, nonRoman Catholic Christians are just as busy as the Pope and probable busier because I don't have a group of able bodied people around me to do a lot of my ministering. Mine is more of the you do it or it don't get done thing.
Have a blessed day.
Highlander forever!
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#31 Sep 26, 2013
One last link for dunadd. Even the Jews agree with me (a Jewish source):

Christians Beatify Their Palestinian Nightmare
Published: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:33 AM

Palestinian Arab Christians have chosen to support the side that wants to destroy Christianity. Hating Jews forges a bond between enemies.

The movie “The Stones Cry Out” by the Italian filmaker Yasmine Perni “gives a detailed account of the historical, cultural, and political place occupied by Christians in the recent history of the Palestinian nation, and in its struggle against colonialism”.

The movie is one of the most powerful propaganda tools of the Palestinian Arab Christians. The documentary is supported by Sabeel, the Christian organization based in Jerusalem which foments anti-Semitism through the Scriptures, while Catholic authories and PLO propagandista such as Hanan Ashrawi “blessed” the movie.

There is a long tradition of anti-Semitism from the Palestinian Christian establishment. In 1989, Jerusalem’s Roman Catholic patriarch Michel Sabbah supported the Intifada as he celebrated a Christmas Mass at Jesus’ birthplace.“Despite all that is happening to you, you will win, in the end you will win,” declared Patriarch Michel Sabbah, appointed by Pope John Paul II. Off Manger Square, Muslims chanted:“The Zionist is God’s enemy!” and “Jews, Mohammed is coming back!”.

But it is not just Ashrawi’s fault. It is an entire Christian establishment, including Christian mayors of Bethlehem, Christian prelates and bishops appointed by Rome, Christians intellectuals such as Edward Said and Christian ordinary men like those interviewed for movies such as “The Stones Cry Out”.

[Irrelevant Material Snipped]

The Palestinian Christians stand today at the opposite side of the barricade. One day they may realize the strategic mistake they made by embracing Palestinian fascism, but it will be too late for all of them.
Enzyte Bob

Reynoldsburg, OH

#32 Sep 26, 2013
dunadd wrote:
Saying that, the difference between your 95 percent and my not 95 percent is you are equating Christians with the Roman Catholic Church whereas when I say or write Christian, I am meaning the whole kit and kaboodle including the Roman Catholics and all other sects and denominations. I include Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Baptists, Methodists, etc etc the whole nine yards.
That's what I am saying. I am saying 95% of the indigenous Christians over there are on the Palestinian side.

Don't worry that this doesn't sound right to you, yet. It took a while for me to get my brain around it too. But it is true.

Remember, we are also the victims of Cold War propaganda here, as well.

The point being, that our policy is because ostensibly supporting Israel is consistent with being a Christian ... but we were never told that the ancient Christian communities overthere see things differently.

I laughed when all the people were waxing romantic about how the internet was going to change the world. When it comes to issues like this one, they are correct. We never would have had access to the Palestinian side of the story before the internet and we never would have known what the real situation is over there.

Lots of ironies when it comes to Israel and our politics. The US did not support Israel at first. Israel is an occupying nation ... and now this?

Greensboro, NC

#33 Sep 26, 2013
I have a few minutes left before I go back out so I will only answer the last post of yours, 32.
muzlims have been attacking Christians in the entire middle east, North Africa, Europe and mainly worldwide for the past 1300+ years and because the Papacy in Rome in 2013 is siding with the Palestine muzlims, they are antiJew. That makes for some wonderful political propaganda.
President Truman was the first to recognise Israel in May, 1948, as representing the US government but according to the EB muzlim propagandist the US did not support Israel at first. When it comes to geography, history, modern or ancient, and pertaining subjects, I AIN'T no dummy.
95 percent of indigenous Christians supporting Palestinian terrorists is a lie.
India, the nation, supports Israel. India has trading, military, economic and cultural pacts with Israel. India is NOT Christian.
People other than Christians, Roman Catholic, orthodox or protestant, support Israel.
Tell all the Christians in Israel support Palestinian terrorists all you want but people including myself who know differently know differently.
Highlander forever!

Greensboro, NC

#34 Sep 27, 2013
having not read through all of your posts, EB, I came across one sentence of yours I would like to address. Rather than a sentence it is actually a phrase. The phrase is the Christ Killing Jews. Jews did not kill Christ. Romans did not kill Christ. Actually no one killed Christ. Jesus gave HIS life and gave it freely.
When in actuality the cross is a Roman form of execution JESUS CHRIST gave HIS life freely. But there is no convincing you of this fact JESUS CHRIST GAVE HIS LIFE FREELY! A lot of Christians don't believe it, so why should a muzlim believe it?
Now back to my reading, writing and studying what you wrote! Merci beaucoup!
Highlander forever!

Greensboro, NC

#35 Sep 27, 2013
It needs be I interject a point of truth at this time of my reading EB's posts. The tribe of Judah from whence come Jews, Jews being the diminutive of Judah, are but one twelfth of Israel. They are Israelites but today they are not Israel but Judah. Many centuries ago the southern tribe of Judah along with Benjamin was separated from the ten northern tribes of Israel, this taking place in the days of the son of Solomon, Rehoboam and Solomon's servant, Jeroboam.
Since that time until today Israel is NOT Judah and Judah is NOT Israel.
In Ezekiel 38-39 describing the war between Gogh and his allies against Israel, Jerusalem is not mentioned for the simple reason Jerusalem is the capital of Judah.
This teaching of the war against the nation of Israel before the coming of JESUS CHRIST is totally erroneous.
Israel is here today but they are NOT the nation of Israel at the end of the Mediterranean.
I hate to upset everyone's theological believing of this erroneous teaching but I am a purveyor of truth and the truth is the nation of Israel is NOT Israel of the scriptures, like it or not.
That's the way the cookie crumbles.
Highlander forever!

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