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141 - 160 of 901 Comments Last updated Apr 26, 2013

“Paper Or Plastic?”

Since: Nov 11

Albakoikee

#146 Apr 20, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't doubt either of you had a different experience. But do you honestly believe a family member would deliberately outed this woman and endangered her job? I'm not sure another sibling or even if her father were still alive would have outed her in such a way unless they made certain it was ok with her. Tony, if your brother had something he would not have wanted public in the obit, wouldn't you know such?
And if she was ok with that obit, she certainly would have been willing to take her chances with the Diocese of Columbus. Watterson, AGAIN, to anyone reading did NOT fire her. The diocese did and that IS A HUGE difference here. Regardless of whether you understand the hierarchy of power here that fired her, you cannot tell me that 1) the school was completely unaware of the situation--they simply had no proof and kept her employed until they had the proof and 2) she was not completely ignorant of the possible consequences.
It is what it is. I don't see this as a "hate" situation or a discrimination situation. And we don't know all of the details, either. Her contract may have been ended or she was "fired," but knowing the Church, it's likely she was probably terminated with some sort of financial arrangement. Possibly given an early retirement since she was there nearly 20 years. I don't know this, simple conjecture on my behalf, but I find it totally ridiculous for anyone to assume that this was a hateful situation.
No, I don't believe anyone was trying to do harm. The relationship status mentioned would be no different than including "Bob Jones and his fiancee".

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#147 Apr 20, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been primarily considering the legal aspects of this case, rather than the optional aspects. The reason that the Michigan case is important is because it dealt with the lots of religious waivers. In that case a teacher was denied protection (accommodation for an emergent physical condition) because the church that ran the school was able to classify her work as being religious in nature. She was let go rather than provide the accommodation.
This looks similar, not because homosexuality is a disability, but because it contributed to case law defining the boundaries of religious exemptions to labor law in church-sponsored employment.
After 19 years, this woman's dishonesty caught up with her.
She entered into a contract knowing that she had no intention of adhering thereto.

Karma's a bytch.
They cannot kill a Spook

Detroit, MI

#148 Apr 20, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
After 19 years, this woman's dishonesty caught up with her.
She entered into a contract knowing that she had no intention of adhering thereto.
Karma's a bytch.
All she had to do was not advertise her carpet chew habit. I am sure other teachers and students knew she was one.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#149 Apr 20, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been primarily considering the legal aspects of this case, rather than the optional aspects. The reason that the Michigan case is important is because it dealt with the lots of religious waivers. In that case a teacher was denied protection (accommodation for an emergent physical condition) because the church that ran the school was able to classify her work as being religious in nature. She was let go rather than provide the accommodation.
This looks similar, not because homosexuality is a disability, but because it contributed to case law defining the boundaries of religious exemptions to labor law in church-sponsored employment.
No exemption that I can see within the Columbus code. I would suspect the diocese will challenge it on that basis, too.

Further, I won't doubt the Church's arguments will be based somewhat similarly to the code of ethics I posted earlier for Catholic teachers. The Church's teachings are clear in that it brings its morals and teachings to the public in a spirit of generosity. It is up to each individual to accept or not. This teacher ACCEPTED the church's teachings when she accepted the job. This teacher was not ill-treated or discriminated against in any manner during her employment, rather it seemed as if the community appreciated her talents. This is not the reverse matter of where a religious person was insisting on his/her morality be imposed on students within a public institution.

No foul here, the teacher broke the contract with the expected morals or ethics (ethical because I see she could have been considered to be deceiving her employer with her relationship status).
They cannot kill a Spook

Detroit, MI

#150 Apr 20, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
No exemption that I can see within the Columbus code. I would suspect the diocese will challenge it on that basis, too.
Further, I won't doubt the Church's arguments will be based somewhat similarly to the code of ethics I posted earlier for Catholic teachers. The Church's teachings are clear in that it brings its morals and teachings to the public in a spirit of generosity. It is up to each individual to accept or not. This teacher ACCEPTED the church's teachings when she accepted the job. This teacher was not ill-treated or discriminated against in any manner during her employment, rather it seemed as if the community appreciated her talents. This is not the reverse matter of where a religious person was insisting on his/her morality be imposed on students within a public institution.
No foul here, the teacher broke the contract with the expected morals or ethics (ethical because I see she could have been considered to be deceiving her employer with her relationship status).
The Fa ag groups can never accept personal responsibility.
Anonymous

Dublin, OH

#151 Apr 20, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't doubt either of you had a different experience. But do you honestly believe a family member would deliberately outed this woman and endangered her job? I'm not sure another sibling or even if her father were still alive would have outed her in such a way unless they made certain it was ok with her. Tony, if your brother had something he would not have wanted public in the obit, wouldn't you know such?
And if she was ok with that obit, she certainly would have been willing to take her chances with the Diocese of Columbus. Watterson, AGAIN, to anyone reading did NOT fire her. The diocese did and that IS A HUGE difference here. Regardless of whether you understand the hierarchy of power here that fired her, you cannot tell me that 1) the school was completely unaware of the situation--they simply had no proof and kept her employed until they had the proof and 2) she was not completely ignorant of the possible consequences.
It is what it is. I don't see this as a "hate" situation or a discrimination situation. And we don't know all of the details, either. Her contract may have been ended or she was "fired," but knowing the Church, it's likely she was probably terminated with some sort of financial arrangement. Possibly given an early retirement since she was there nearly 20 years. I don't know this, simple conjecture on my behalf, but I find it totally ridiculous for anyone to assume that this was a hateful situation.
Unbelievable that you shift the blame to her! Many an obit has been run before other immediate family members have had a chance to view it. It's often done at the funeral home when arrangements are being made, often by a representative of the family.
Anonymous

Dublin, OH

#152 Apr 20, 2013
My opinion only: I think "everyone knew", except a large financial donor who made a stink about it after the public obit which thus cost her the job.
bill

Dublin, OH

#153 Apr 21, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
The issue IMHO seriously is the breach of separation of church and state.
I have no idea of what kind of person Carla Hale is, I won't conjecture--we know there will be meltdown with insults eventually. But Carla Hale went into that job fully well knowing with Church teachings are regarding homosexuality.
A lot of folks also don't care to understand the school did NOT fire her. The DIOCESE did. Let's try to keep that clear. The diocese runs all of its religious groups including churches and schools. Meaning that if Watterson decided to go against the diocesan decision, they can lose their standing as a Catholic school and any funding from the diocese.
Yes, there are anti-discrimination laws out there, and no matter whether you are gay or straight, you will have to work to support yourself in this world. I don't have a problem with that. But contractually, Carla Hale made an agreement with an organization within the Catholic Church and its teachings on morality and sexuality are not up for vote or debate by the general public.
We have separation of church and state for a reason. And Carla Hale really has choices in the marketplace for teachers. I can't wait for the spin from Reader on this issue.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Are a lot of folks forgetting the part that states "prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." That means, if the Diocese found her behavior immoral or unethical, they can end her employment contract. Again, I ask, where is the hate or the discrimination, especially if she were there 19 years? Or does the Church not have the right to teach its morality in its own practice?
Napoleon Bell, executive director of the city’s Community Relations Commission, said the city law has no exemption for religious organizations.

Tootle said courts have allowed religious exemptions to such laws if the employee is in a “ ministerial” position conveying the religious organization’s message.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local...
Oliver Canterberry

New Albany, OH

#154 Apr 21, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
Hundreds of calls, some of them threatening, have been received at a Roman Catholic high school in Columbus where a gay teacher was recently fired, according to a police report filed this week.
The report says the calls came from all over the country in the wake of media reports on a teacher’s firing from Bishop Watterson High School. The Clintonville school has requested a police investigation.
“Some of these calls are threatening in nature, non-specific, yet can and are being taken in a threatening manner,” says the report.
Physical-education teacher Carla Hale, who worked at the school for 19 years, was fired in March after an obituary for her mother listed the name of her female partner. The dismissal caught wide attention on social media this week, and more than 20,000 people have signed a change.org petition that students and others started on Monday to seek Hale’s reinstatement.
Colleen Mar, a school spokeswoman, said Columbus police have referred to the Watterson calls more as menacing than threatening and recommended that a police officer be on school grounds as a precaution. The school also disabled its Facebook page and removed employee email addresses from the school’s website, she said.
George Jones, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Columbus, which oversees the school, said the diocese is monitoring communications to the school and its staff, and anything suspicious or threatening will be immediately turned over to law-enforcement officials.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local...
Agree.

Under the guise of civil rights and human liberty, the sexual pervert has come out in the open, waving the banner of gay liberation. Attending political rallies and conventions he is demanding respectability and freedom to practice his degeneracy as well as a voice in government.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#155 Apr 21, 2013
If only you mackerel snappers could have mustered up this level of outrage over priests raping your own children.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#156 Apr 21, 2013
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not specifically Catholic. Applies to any religion.
I was putting on my Paco costume, Tony.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#157 Apr 21, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't doubt either of you had a different experience. But do you honestly believe a family member would deliberately outed this woman and endangered her job? I'm not sure another sibling or even if her father were still alive would have outed her in such a way unless they made certain it was ok with her. Tony, if your brother had something he would not have wanted public in the obit, wouldn't you know such?
And if she was ok with that obit, she certainly would have been willing to take her chances with the Diocese of Columbus. Watterson, AGAIN, to anyone reading did NOT fire her. The diocese did and that IS A HUGE difference here. Regardless of whether you understand the hierarchy of power here that fired her, you cannot tell me that 1) the school was completely unaware of the situation--they simply had no proof and kept her employed until they had the proof and 2) she was not completely ignorant of the possible consequences.
It is what it is. I don't see this as a "hate" situation or a discrimination situation. And we don't know all of the details, either. Her contract may have been ended or she was "fired," but knowing the Church, it's likely she was probably terminated with some sort of financial arrangement. Possibly given an early retirement since she was there nearly 20 years. I don't know this, simple conjecture on my behalf, but I find it totally ridiculous for anyone to assume that this was a hateful situation.
Doctrine of laches.

Doctrine of waiver.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#158 Apr 21, 2013
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
You either take the stance of the progressives, or else
No. You abide by the law, or else.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#159 Apr 21, 2013
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I rest my case. She went into this knowing possible outcome.
Not that it matters, in the long run, I suppose. I just don't see the discrimination or the hatred here. She's not a naive kid.
Her administrative employers at the school surely knew about her circumstances. They're not naive kids.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#160 Apr 21, 2013
Anonymous wrote:
My opinion only: I think "everyone knew", except a large financial donor who made a stink about it after the public obit which thus cost her the job.
I think you most likely have hit the proverbial nail directly on its head.

Isn't it funny that this particular organization, which purports to be most concerned with spirituality, seems to always be more concerned with vices of the flesh, and the "root of all evil"?

woof

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#161 Apr 21, 2013
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
If only you mackerel snappers could have mustered up this level of outrage over priests raping your own children.
I guess you've never heard of SNAP. And you also forget that your daddy lined his pockets as a result of outrage against the Cleveland diocese.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#162 Apr 21, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
Her administrative employers at the school surely knew about her circumstances. They're not naive kids.
woof
They very well may have "known" via word of mouth. Without proof, they could not have taken any action though.

Sorry dude, but I do think the Diocese will argue this on religious exemption if possible. They're not dumb either. And that IS if the city decides to sue. It's a minor matter to the city, it's only a misdemeanor with small fines. Won't mean she gets her job back, either.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#163 Apr 21, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
Her administrative employers at the school surely knew about her circumstances. They're not naive kids.
woof
They don't do the hiring and firing, either. And as teachers, there was no doubt a leftist streak a mile wide in a lot of them.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

#164 Apr 21, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
No. You abide by the law, or else.
woof
Jawohl!
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#165 Apr 21, 2013
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>I guess you've never heard of SNAP. And you also forget that your daddy lined his pockets as a result of outrage against the Cleveland diocese.
What?

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