The "Tolerant Left" Strikes Again

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“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

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#126
Apr 20, 2013
 

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-The-Artist- wrote:
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I can provide another extreme example. It was man's law in the USSR that in WWII all deserters should be shot on sight. Was it right for religious beliefs to override that?
No. What is right is to lobby that unjust laws be changed.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

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#127
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
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There was no imposition of beliefs. That only happens if the threat of temporal violence is used to coerce one into acting.
Actually, any negative consequence will do.
This was termination for breach of conduct.
What conduct is that?

“Old Right”

Since: Jan 13

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#128
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
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Actually, any negative consequence will do.
<quoted text>
What conduct is that?
By "any negative consquence" that can be taken to reckless ends. It's akin to saying that the mere disapproval causing hurt feelings is a negative consequence.

“Old Right”

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#129
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
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No. What is right is to lobby that unjust laws be changed.
You now preach the supremacy of the state?

“Old Right”

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#130
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
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What conduct is that?
Should have said "contract"

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

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#131
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
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By "any negative consquence" that can be taken to reckless ends. It's akin to saying that the mere disapproval causing hurt feelings is a negative consequence.
I'm talking about material consequences, such as firing someone from their job.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

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#132
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
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You now preach the supremacy of the state?
More correctly, the supremacy of those who allow the state to exist.

“Old Right”

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#133
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
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More correctly, the supremacy of those who allow the state to exist.
The state has to exist, nature abhors a vacuum.

“Old Right”

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#134
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
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I'm talking about material consequences, such as firing someone from their job.
Free association

“Old Right”

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#135
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
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More correctly, the supremacy of those who allow the state to exist.
Or is this the supremacy of the majority?

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#136
Apr 20, 2013
 

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TonyD2 wrote:
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Exactly what happened when our father passed. One brother was out of the country and could not be contacted.
I don't doubt either of you had a different experience. But do you honestly believe a family member would deliberately outed this woman and endangered her job? I'm not sure another sibling or even if her father were still alive would have outed her in such a way unless they made certain it was ok with her. Tony, if your brother had something he would not have wanted public in the obit, wouldn't you know such?

And if she was ok with that obit, she certainly would have been willing to take her chances with the Diocese of Columbus. Watterson, AGAIN, to anyone reading did NOT fire her. The diocese did and that IS A HUGE difference here. Regardless of whether you understand the hierarchy of power here that fired her, you cannot tell me that 1) the school was completely unaware of the situation--they simply had no proof and kept her employed until they had the proof and 2) she was not completely ignorant of the possible consequences.

It is what it is. I don't see this as a "hate" situation or a discrimination situation. And we don't know all of the details, either. Her contract may have been ended or she was "fired," but knowing the Church, it's likely she was probably terminated with some sort of financial arrangement. Possibly given an early retirement since she was there nearly 20 years. I don't know this, simple conjecture on my behalf, but I find it totally ridiculous for anyone to assume that this was a hateful situation.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

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#137
Apr 20, 2013
 

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gokeefe wrote:
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I don't doubt either of you had a different experience. But do you honestly believe a family member would deliberately outed this woman and endangered her job?
I doubt it was intentional, any more than it was intentional when we mentioned my brother's wife.

“Old Right”

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#138
Apr 20, 2013
 
gokeefe wrote:
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Possibly given an early retirement since she was there nearly 20 years. I don't know this, simple conjecture on my behalf, but I find it totally ridiculous for anyone to assume that this was a hateful situation.
You either take the stance of the progressives, or else

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

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#139
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
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Or is this the supremacy of the majority?
No, the majority is not always right... not even when they agree with me... or you... That's why due process is put into place. Without it, I doubt the unpopular would be allowed to even exist.

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#140
Apr 20, 2013
 

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-The-Artist- wrote:
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You either take the stance of the progressives, or else
Well, call me crazy then. I have my own opinions. Fancy that!

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#141
Apr 20, 2013
 

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TonyD2 wrote:
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I doubt it was intentional, any more than it was intentional when we mentioned my brother's wife.
I rest my case. She went into this knowing possible outcome.

Not that it matters, in the long run, I suppose. I just don't see the discrimination or the hatred here. She's not a naive kid.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

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#142
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
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Free association
If it was "free" association, there wouldn't be a need for contracts.

“Queen of my domain”

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#143
Apr 20, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
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Interested in your statement regarding the AFA. This is where I have a religious opinion. I hold that Christians have a rather clear moral responsibility not to discriminate based on disability. I think that hiding behind separation to deny such consideration is shameful
I don't find it shameful. This is a strange analogy. So homosexuality is now a disability?!

This woman clearly seems to be a competent teacher, based on what I've noted from the change.org petition. I don't see where the Catholic Church has done anything hateful. Possibly *harmful* to her financially; however, not harmful to her character. This would not have come about as public knowledge had 1) the obit not have been published as it was and 2) the media attention it's garnered due to the petition.

If she is competent and wishes to remain employed, there are other logical venues for her.

I don't find it at all shameful in that she was employed by the diocese nearly 20 years and that no attention would have been brought about to the case until the media attention came about.

My religious views on this are even irrelevant. There should be nothing preventing the church from expressing and living its own moral code. If this teacher cannot accept that moral code, she has options--public schools, charter schools, private schools that have a different moral code, etc.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#144
Apr 20, 2013
 

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gokeefe wrote:
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I don't find it shameful. This is a strange analogy. So homosexuality is now a disability?!
This woman clearly seems to be a competent teacher, based on what I've noted from the change.org petition. I don't see where the Catholic Church has done anything hateful. Possibly *harmful* to her financially; however, not harmful to her character. This would not have come about as public knowledge had 1) the obit not have been published as it was and 2) the media attention it's garnered due to the petition.
If she is competent and wishes to remain employed, there are other logical venues for her.
I don't find it at all shameful in that she was employed by the diocese nearly 20 years and that no attention would have been brought about to the case until the media attention came about.
My religious views on this are even irrelevant. There should be nothing preventing the church from expressing and living its own moral code. If this teacher cannot accept that moral code, she has options--public schools, charter schools, private schools that have a different moral code, etc.
I have been primarily considering the legal aspects of this case, rather than the optional aspects. The reason that the Michigan case is important is because it dealt with the lots of religious waivers. In that case a teacher was denied protection (accommodation for an emergent physical condition) because the church that ran the school was able to classify her work as being religious in nature. She was let go rather than provide the accommodation.

This looks similar, not because homosexuality is a disability, but because it contributed to case law defining the boundaries of religious exemptions to labor law in church-sponsored employment.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#145
Apr 20, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
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I have been primarily considering the legal aspects of this case, rather than the optional aspects. The reason that the Michigan case is important is because it dealt with the lots of religious waivers. In that case a teacher was denied protection (accommodation for an emergent physical condition) because the church that ran the school was able to classify her work as being religious in nature. She was let go rather than provide the accommodation.
This looks similar, not because homosexuality is a disability, but because it contributed to case law defining the boundaries of religious exemptions to labor law in church-sponsored employment.
That should be emotional no optional

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