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21 - 40 of 901 Comments Last updated Apr 26, 2013

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#21
Apr 20, 2013
 
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you would point out which statements of mine on this thread you consider bigoted.
"If you want my religious opinion, that's something else again."

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#22
Apr 20, 2013
 
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>
"If you want my religious opinion, that's something else again."
Religious opinions are bigoted?

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#23
Apr 20, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Religious opinions are bigoted?
Yours concerning Catholicism are consistently bigoted.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#24
Apr 20, 2013
 

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-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>Yours concerning Catholicism are consistently bigoted.
Moving the goalposts again there, Bigotry.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#25
Apr 20, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Moving the goalposts again there, Bigotry.
No, Reader. Your dancing doesn't work here. You're a bigot, plain and simple.

Since: Jan 13

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#26
Apr 20, 2013
 

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-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>No, Reader. Your dancing doesn't work here. You're a bigot, plain and simple.
As Bob said, everyone is.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#27
Apr 20, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a case in Michigan that many on the right cheered that may provide guidance--but you probably won't like it.
In that case it was found that ADA protections did not apply to a teacher due to a portion of her time being devoted to religious teaching. If that case applies here and the teachers duties are exclusively secular, it would seem that Columbus civil protections would apply.
Now that's not spinning. That's about looking at how the courts have drawn the Constitutional line.
Be interested to hear from some lawyers.
If you want my religious opinion, that's something else again.
I don't know much about the Michigan case, so I won't specifically comment towards it.

HOWEVER, I don't think the ADA has any business in any religious organization, PERIOD. Further, if you read the comments on the change.org petition for this teacher, nearly all alluded to how other than her homosexuality, her spiritual nature indicated she followed the church and that she was a good teacher. That's very possible that she was an excellent health and gym instructor. It's also very possible that she is a kind person. But, her personal decisions were very much against the teachings of the church and she made those decisions very, very public in an obituary published in a large metro newspaper.

She signed on the dotted line. She knew what she was getting into. Breach of contract.

Your religious views, in this context, are irrelevant. Your religion/faith is not that of the Catholic Church. IMHO those are the only relevant religious views to be had in this situation.

Since: Jan 13

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#28
Apr 20, 2013
 

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gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know much about the Michigan case, so I won't specifically comment towards it.
HOWEVER, I don't think the ADA has any business in any religious organization, PERIOD. Further, if you read the comments on the change.org petition for this teacher, nearly all alluded to how other than her homosexuality, her spiritual nature indicated she followed the church and that she was a good teacher. That's very possible that she was an excellent health and gym instructor. It's also very possible that she is a kind person. But, her personal decisions were very much against the teachings of the church and she made those decisions very, very public in an obituary published in a large metro newspaper.
She signed on the dotted line. She knew what she was getting into. Breach of contract.
Your religious views, in this context, are irrelevant. Your religion/faith is not that of the Catholic Church. IMHO those are the only relevant religious views to be had in this situation.
At my high school, a teacher went through a divorce with allegations of DV, never proven, but that was enough to get him fired (the school never admits to firing a person, everyone was kept on a single year contract)

Now in the public schools, you can commit felonies and still be employed!

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#29
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
At my high school, a teacher went through a divorce with allegations of DV, never proven, but that was enough to get him fired (the school never admits to firing a person, everyone was kept on a single year contract)
Now in the public schools, you can commit felonies and still be employed!
Similar happened in my high school. I think many diocese offer one-year contracts each year for teachers and administrators.

Had a science teacher my sophomore year, she divorced her husband after they had a baby. He was cheating on her. Divorce is NOT a problem within the church so long as you don't remarry without an anulment, so she was fine as-is, as I understand. But my junior year, she was not offered a contract the next year. Why? It was found she was "cohabitating" with a new guy.

But, the the teaching profession within Catholic school systems is not the reality of public.

Now, here's an example of the code of ethics for Catholic teachers:

http://www.csbsju.edu/education/student-resou...

Note one of the last lines:

Seek and encourage persons who live a life consonant with Gospel values and Catholic Church teachings to pursue the apostolate of teaching by:

modeling the faith life and witnessing to the Faith Community on the parish, diocesan, national and world levels

The faith does not include homosexuality.

End of arguments.

Since: Jan 13

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#30
Apr 20, 2013
 
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
Similar happened in my high school. I think many diocese offer one-year contracts each year for teachers and administrators.
Had a science teacher my sophomore year, she divorced her husband after they had a baby. He was cheating on her. Divorce is NOT a problem within the church so long as you don't remarry without an anulment, so she was fine as-is, as I understand. But my junior year, she was not offered a contract the next year. Why? It was found she was "cohabitating" with a new guy.
But, the the teaching profession within Catholic school systems is not the reality of public.
Now, here's an example of the code of ethics for Catholic teachers:
http://www.csbsju.edu/education/student-resou...
Note one of the last lines:
Seek and encourage persons who live a life consonant with Gospel values and Catholic Church teachings to pursue the apostolate of teaching by:
modeling the faith life and witnessing to the Faith Community on the parish, diocesan, national and world levels
The faith does not include homosexuality.
End of arguments.
We also had a few Jewish teachers.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#31
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
We also had a few Jewish teachers.
In my day it was half nuns, half Catholic lay women with the exception of the boys gym teacher who was a Catholic male.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

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#32
Apr 20, 2013
 
gokeefe wrote:
Wow. Don't abide by your contract and then have a mob stick up for you by claiming hate and intolerance? I guess contracts aren't supposed to be worth the paper their written on any longer.
Contracts breaking laws are not enforceable. Never have been.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

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#33
Apr 20, 2013
 
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
We also had a few Jewish teachers.
Not sure that matters if it was the case. Bottom line, you sign a contract. A code of ethics, admittedly, is not the contract. Violate the terms of a contract, you're out.

Simple.

Is it "fair?" I can't say. But it is what it is. And I'd bet a dollar that this really wasn't a surprise move on behalf of the diocese nor was it really a surprise to the teacher. I'm more than willing to wager that they had discussions with her prior to all of this.

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Since: May 10

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#34
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Contracts breaking laws are not enforceable. Never have been.
So are you saying that the diocese can hire any teacher "qualified" on paper that doesn't follow it's code of conduct or meets its moral standards?

I'm not sure that contract broke the law in any way.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#35
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Contracts breaking laws are not enforceable. Never have been.
The contract preceded the Columbus law. And the Columbus law is most likely unconstitutional for not having a religious exemption.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

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#36
Apr 20, 2013
 
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know much about the Michigan case, so I won't specifically comment towards it.
HOWEVER, I don't think the ADA has any business in any religious organization, PERIOD. Further, if you read the comments on the change.org petition for this teacher, nearly all alluded to how other than her homosexuality, her spiritual nature indicated she followed the church and that she was a good teacher. That's very possible that she was an excellent health and gym instructor. It's also very possible that she is a kind person. But, her personal decisions were very much against the teachings of the church and she made those decisions very, very public in an obituary published in a large metro newspaper.
What is your source that SHE (as opposed to another family member) had the obituary published?

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#37
Apr 20, 2013
 
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your source that SHE (as opposed to another family member) had the obituary published?
That's immaterial. The way the facts came out make no difference.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

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#38
Apr 20, 2013
 
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
So are you saying that the diocese can hire any teacher "qualified" on paper that doesn't follow it's code of conduct or meets its moral standards?
I'm not sure that contract broke the law in any way.
A provision of the contract, if it said that a teacher can be dismissed based on sexual orientation, is in violation of Columbus city code.

http://library.municode.com/HTML/16219/level2...
Twisted Oliver

Columbus, OH

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#39
Apr 20, 2013
 
-Clayton Bigsby wrote:
<quoted text>The contract preceded the Columbus law. And the Columbus law is most likely unconstitutional for not having a religious exemption.
Based upon nothing more than your un-expert opinion of course.

Since: Apr 13

Hilliard, OH

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#40
Apr 20, 2013
 

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Suspend all belief for a moment here and picture this:

I teach math at an Islamic school. I sign a contract containing a code of conduct that includes no alcohol consumption. I do not consume alcohol in my community, but I do on vacation and I am tagged on a friend's Facebook page drinking on the Strip in Las Vegas. The school becomes aware of it and fires me.
Guess what...I rolled the dice and lost. The school didn't do anything wrong.

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