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Dublin, OH

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#22
Apr 6, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
As a matter of fact, you have belittled my church--suggesting that nobody would want to go there because they would accept me as a member, or something to that effect.
1) Find me the post.

2) Is this along the same vein where you said I was the head of a group to shut down the Methodist Children's Home, totally fabricated on your part?

3) Military publications for military families are discussing the so-called isolated incident, Reader. If you HAD anyone in your family serving or who had served, you would know this.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#23
Apr 6, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't blow it off. I trust the accuracy of their reporting.
However, I had asked for a primary source. That would be the document or policy in which the US Army made the statement that Catholicism was equivalent to Hamas, or whatever.
As I said--as reported in the Army Times--there is no primary source because that is not a policy or a categorization that comes from the US Army.
Now, if someone here wants to challenge me (and the Army Times) on that, I would renew my call for a primary source to support their view.
Screenshots of the presentation were published in the Mail.
Absolutely no presentation is included in troop training without prior approval by superiors. None.

What we have heard are pathetic excuses because someone was called out.
Wait what

Dublin, OH

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#24
Apr 6, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
From your article (which is also not a primary source, but it would appear that there really IS no primary source available, as the Army did not issue any such statement):
An Army spokesman said the briefing was held a year ago.“After receiving a single complaint following the presentation, this person deleted the slide, and it was never again shown,” said Army spokesman George Wright, in an email response.“This person apologized for any offense it may have caused, and we consider the matter closed.”
The slideshow, titled “Extremism & Extremist Organizations,” includes a list of 17 religions or organizations, to include evangelical Christianity, that are “religious extremism.”
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As noted in the statement from the archdiocese, Wright said, it was an isolated incident not condoned by the Army.
“The slide was not produced by the Army, and certainly does not reflect our policy or doctrine. It was produced by an individual without anyone in the chain of command’s knowledge or permission.” Wright said the briefing material stated that the presenter was not a subject matter expert, and produced the material using Internet research.
I am going to be intentionally vague here because I rarely discuss anything personal - for a number of reasons.

There are many "stories" involving the government and its branches that can't be "primary sourced" for public consumption. That does not mean, however, that said stories are untrue or isolated incidents, even.

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#25
Apr 6, 2013
 
Wait what wrote:
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You are a witch to put me in the same category as Pam Gellar and Jihad Watch, neither of whom I cite. Oh well, it just makes you look ridiculous.
I was responding directly to tip, who started the thread with an article citing Gellar and Jihad Watch.

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#26
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
1) Find me the post.
2) Is this along the same vein where you said I was the head of a group to shut down the Methodist Children's Home, totally fabricated on your part?
3) Military publications for military families are discussing the so-called isolated incident, Reader. If you HAD anyone in your family serving or who had served, you would know this.
Calm down. I have no idea where to begin looking for a specific post, but I know it has happened on more than one occasion--leading me to inquire into your beliefs to try to get a handle on whether you were opposed to Christianity as a whole, or just this Christian. But on this one I am quite certain it was you with whom I was conversing.

I don't know why you are so hot about the military publication. I am not in disagreement with it. I quoted it specifically to show that it was in opposition to what tip posted. It is not, however, a primary source (I say now for perhaps the third time). A primary source would be the document laying out the specific Army policy that tip believes exists. According to what is reported in the article there IS no primary document which can substantiate what tip claims because such IS NOT the policy of the Army.

But, for the record, it is these kinds of conversations with you that lead me to ask if you have a particular problem with ME, since you are bent on arguing, even when we seem to be in agreement. I read a number of your posts during the recent time when I was not posting and found most of them to be of a much higher caliber than what I generally experience from you--in fact I agreed with a number and found them to be positive contributions. Which again makes me wonder if I call out some particular in you.

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#27
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
I am going to be intentionally vague here because I rarely discuss anything personal - for a number of reasons.
There are many "stories" involving the government and its branches that can't be "primary sourced" for public consumption. That does not mean, however, that said stories are untrue or isolated incidents, even.
On the other hand, when the charge is that there is an official policy and that soldiers are being trained in it, one should be able to produce the policy, or some evidence thereof.

There has been some noises that I have heard in the opposite direction, having to do with some unofficial (one would hope) infiltration of fundamentalist groups into the military, insisting that personnel attend various religiously-oriented speakers and the like. And this would have predated the Obama Presidency. Other, somewhat more substantiated rumors have had to do with "anti-terrorism" training being conducted by some folks with far less actual knowledge of Islam (and far more religio-political agenda) than one would hope or would be appropriate and helpful. Again--more difficult to prove and probably off-policy.

When the Seikh Temple was shot up there was a reminder that there are some extremist groups that like to recruit from the military, or recent exits from the military--and always some suspicion of such groups taking root (unofficially) within the military ranks.

Extremism always needs to be regarded carefully--regardless of the extreme of what. I don't know how Catholicism got tossed into that particular list. There are Catholic extremists (some would call liberation theology an extreme view of Catholocism)--but I'm not aware of that being usual in the US any time recently.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#28
Apr 6, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Calm down. I have no idea where to begin looking for a specific post, but I know it has happened on more than one occasion--leading me to inquire into your beliefs to try to get a handle on whether you were opposed to Christianity as a whole, or just this Christian. But on this one I am quite certain it was you with whom I was conversing.
I don't know why you are so hot about the military publication. I am not in disagreement with it. I quoted it specifically to show that it was in opposition to what tip posted. It is not, however, a primary source (I say now for perhaps the third time). A primary source would be the document laying out the specific Army policy that tip believes exists. According to what is reported in the article there IS no primary document which can substantiate what tip claims because such IS NOT the policy of the Army.
But, for the record, it is these kinds of conversations with you that lead me to ask if you have a particular problem with ME, since you are bent on arguing, even when we seem to be in agreement. I read a number of your posts during the recent time when I was not posting and found most of them to be of a much higher caliber than what I generally experience from you--in fact I agreed with a number and found them to be positive contributions. Which again makes me wonder if I call out some particular in you.
Again, any presentation used in troop training reflects "specific Army policy" because no presentation is permitted unless previously approved up the chain of command.

Since you're non-military, you couldn't possibly understand.

The Army got called out on this BS, and they're scapegoating.
Plain and simple.

“animis opibusque parati”

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#29
Apr 6, 2013
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
On the other hand, when the charge is that there is an official policy and that soldiers are being trained in it, one should be able to produce the policy, or some evidence thereof.
There has been some noises that I have heard in the opposite direction, having to do with some unofficial (one would hope) infiltration of fundamentalist groups into the military, insisting that personnel attend various religiously-oriented speakers and the like. And this would have predated the Obama Presidency. Other, somewhat more substantiated rumors have had to do with "anti-terrorism" training being conducted by some folks with far less actual knowledge of Islam (and far more religio-political agenda) than one would hope or would be appropriate and helpful. Again--more difficult to prove and probably off-policy.
When the Seikh Temple was shot up there was a reminder that there are some extremist groups that like to recruit from the military, or recent exits from the military--and always some suspicion of such groups taking root (unofficially) within the military ranks.
Extremism always needs to be regarded carefully--regardless of the extreme of what. I don't know how Catholicism got tossed into that particular list. There are Catholic extremists (some would call liberation theology an extreme view of Catholocism)--but I'm not aware of that being usual in the US any time recently.
This administration has been pursuing these goals from its beginning.
Only a fool would feign ignorance.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/law_ce...
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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#30
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
This administration has been pursuing these goals from its beginning.
Only a fool would feign ignorance.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/law_ce...
Sure Tip. Because right wing extremists have never engaged in terrorism within the borders of the USA?

woof

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#31
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Duke for Mayor wrote:
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Sure Tip. Because right wing extremists have never engaged in terrorism within the borders of the USA?
woof
LOL..."right-wing extremist" is the new Progressive catch-phrase for all political opponents.

We are not fooled.

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#32
Apr 6, 2013
 
http://tinyurl.com/cp3dq53

04/05/13

Colo. Undersheriff Warns: State police, Homeland Security to Target Christians

by Joe Newby

According to a letter written by Ron Trowbridge, undersheriff with the Prowers County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office, Christians who believe the Bible is the literal word of God and others who do not agree with the changes taking place in America could find themselves under scrutiny by law enforcement authorities and Homeland Security, Steven H. Ahle wrote at Red Statements Friday.

Trowbridge, a law enforcement officer with many years of experience, told Ahle that he recently attended a training session in La Junta, Colo., where, he says, Colorado State Patrol Trooper Joe Kluczynski gave a 2-hour presentation on the "sovereign citizen" movement.

"Kluczynski spent most of his two hours focusing on how, in his view and apparently the view of Homeland Security, people turn to the sovereign citizen movement," he wrote.

According to the FBI, the "sovereign citizen movement" is made up of "anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or 'sovereign' from the United States."

These people, the FBI says, do not believe they have to answer to any government authority and can cause a number of problems for law enforcement authorities.

But according to Trowbridge's letter, Kluczynski went much further, including "those who believe America was founded on godly principles, Christians who take the Bible literally, and 'fundamentalists'."

"Kluczynski did not explain what he meant by 'fundamentalists' but from the context it was clear he was referring again to those who took the Bible literally or 'too seriously,'” he added.

These people, Kluczynski reportedly said, have a right to their beliefs, but needed to be monitored by law enforcement authorities.

Trowbridge said that according to Kluczynski, these individuals and groups are "dangerous" because they are "angry over the election of a black president."

When an attendee suggested the economy was probably more to blame, Kluczynski "intimated that those who are not going along with the changes in America will need to be controlled by law enforcement," Trowbridge added.

"Kluczynski even later questioned some of the troopers present if they were willing and prepared to confiscate 'illegal' weapons if ordered to," he added.

According to Trowbridge, Kluczynski said he was leaving the CSP to work with Homeland Security.

"I thought he was perfect for the job," Trowbridge wrote.

News of the training comes on the heels of a report at k99.com [k99.com/colorado-sheriff-just in-smith-answers-can-the-secre t-service-really-arrest-a-sher iff] that says "Colorado is being targeted with an attempt to set up loopholes that will allow the U.S. Secret Service to arrest and remove an elected sheriff for refusing to enforce the law, or anyone breaking the law."

Recently, Colorado passed several sweeping gun control measures and some county sheriffs, like Weld County Sheriff John Cooke, have said they would not enforce mandates that infringe on the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Trowbridge's entire letter can be seen here.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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#33
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL..."right-wing extremist" is the new Progressive catch-phrase for all political opponents.
We are not fooled.
Don't hide behind the truth Tippy. You don't want me to start listing them do you? Lets start with the guy who hid out in the Nantahala National Forest, shall we?

woof

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#34
Apr 6, 2013
 

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Duke for Mayor wrote:
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Don't hide behind the truth Tippy. You don't want me to start listing them do you? Lets start with the guy who hid out in the Nantahala National Forest, shall we?
woof
I see you're wearing your doggie dunce cap today.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#35
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL..."right-wing extremist" is the new Progressive catch-phrase for all political opponents.
We are not fooled.
No. Just for people like you.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

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#36
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/cp3dq53
04/05/13
Colo. Undersheriff Warns: State police, Homeland Security to Target Christians
by Joe Newby
According to a letter written by Ron Trowbridge, undersheriff with the Prowers County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office, Christians who believe the Bible is the literal word of God and others who do not agree with the changes taking place in America could find themselves under scrutiny by law enforcement authorities and Homeland Security, Steven H. Ahle wrote at Red Statements Friday.
Trowbridge, a law enforcement officer with many years of experience, told Ahle that he recently attended a training session in La Junta, Colo., where, he says, Colorado State Patrol Trooper Joe Kluczynski gave a 2-hour presentation on the "sovereign citizen" movement.
"Kluczynski spent most of his two hours focusing on how, in his view and apparently the view of Homeland Security, people turn to the sovereign citizen movement," he wrote.
According to the FBI, the "sovereign citizen movement" is made up of "anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or 'sovereign' from the United States."
These people, the FBI says, do not believe they have to answer to any government authority and can cause a number of problems for law enforcement authorities.
But according to Trowbridge's letter, Kluczynski went much further, including "those who believe America was founded on godly principles, Christians who take the Bible literally, and 'fundamentalists'."
"Kluczynski did not explain what he meant by 'fundamentalists' but from the context it was clear he was referring again to those who took the Bible literally or 'too seriously,'” he added.
These people, Kluczynski reportedly said, have a right to their beliefs, but needed to be monitored by law enforcement authorities.
Trowbridge said that according to Kluczynski, these individuals and groups are "dangerous" because they are "angry over the election of a black president."
When an attendee suggested the economy was probably more to blame, Kluczynski "intimated that those who are not going along with the changes in America will need to be controlled by law enforcement," Trowbridge added.
"Kluczynski even later questioned some of the troopers present if they were willing and prepared to confiscate 'illegal' weapons if ordered to," he added.
According to Trowbridge, Kluczynski said he was leaving the CSP to work with Homeland Security.
"I thought he was perfect for the job," Trowbridge wrote.
News of the training comes on the heels of a report at k99.com [k99.com/colorado-sheriff-just in-smith-answers-can-the-secre t-service-really-arrest-a-sher iff] that says "Colorado is being targeted with an attempt to set up loopholes that will allow the U.S. Secret Service to arrest and remove an elected sheriff for refusing to enforce the law, or anyone breaking the law."
Recently, Colorado passed several sweeping gun control measures and some county sheriffs, like Weld County Sheriff John Cooke, have said they would not enforce mandates that infringe on the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.
Trowbridge's entire letter can be seen here.
What in that training do you think isn't true?

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#37
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, any presentation used in troop training reflects "specific Army policy" because no presentation is permitted unless previously approved up the chain of command.
Since you're non-military, you couldn't possibly understand.
The Army got called out on this BS, and they're scapegoating.
Plain and simple.
So--it would be your stance that the military press was mis-reporting when they said is was a single unauthorized incident?
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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#38
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you're wearing your doggie dunce cap today.
You don't even know who I'm referring to, do you?

woof

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#39
Apr 6, 2013
 

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-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
This administration has been pursuing these goals from its beginning.
Only a fool would feign ignorance.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/law_ce...
From your article:

The report identified as possibly dangerous “those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely.”

This would be something with which you have a problem?
Wait what

Dublin, OH

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#40
Apr 6, 2013
 
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a witch to put me in the same category as Pam Gellar and Jihad Watch, neither of whom I cite. Oh well, it just makes you look ridiculous.
You're right, and I apologize to you.

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#41
Apr 6, 2013
 
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you're wearing your doggie dunce cap today.
Again:

Trowbridge, a law enforcement officer with many years of experience, told Ahle that he recently attended a training session in La Junta, Colo., where, he says, Colorado State Patrol Trooper Joe Kluczynski gave a 2-hour presentation on the "sovereign citizen" movement.

"Kluczynski spent most of his two hours focusing on how, in his view and apparently the view of Homeland Security, people turn to the sovereign citizen movement," he wrote.

According to the FBI, the "sovereign citizen movement" is made up of "anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in this country, they are separate or 'sovereign' from the United States."

These people, the FBI says, do not believe they have to answer to any government authority and can cause a number of problems for law enforcement authorities.

This would be something you have a problem with? These are the kinds of folks who have been known to fire on police making a traffic stop.

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