Mom angry that male vice principal spanked child

Posted in the Columbus Forum

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Oliver

Springboro, OH

#1 Sep 23, 2012
Rather than spend two days in in-school suspension for allegedly letting another student copy her classwork, Taylor Santos, a well-regarded student and athlete at Springtown High School, near Fort Worth, Texas, chose to get paddled.

As her mother, Anna Jorgensen, told ABC News affiliate WFAA-TV in Dallas, Taylor didn't want to miss any classes because "her grades are very important to her."

So Santos went to the vice principal's office to request a paddling. She called her mom, who said that as long as her daughter was OK with it, so was she. According to school policy, parents who don't want their children to subject to corporal punishment must submit a written statement each year.

What neither Jorgenson nor Santos knew was that a man - the vice principal - would be doing the swatting, while a female watched. As far as Jorgensen knew, she said, school policy mandated that males spanked males and females spanked females.

Because of the force with with Santos was struck, her bottom was fire-engine red and looked as if it had been "burned and blistered," said Jorgensen, who took photos as evidence.

While paddling in public schools has been outlawed by 31 states, as well as by Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico, the Supreme Court ruled in 1977 that it was legal unless it has abolished by local authorities, according to the web site Corpun.com .

It is legal in 19 states; efforts to ban it in Wyoming, North Carolina, Louisiana and Texas failed. However, in 2011 laws were introduced in both Texas and North Carolina giving parents the right to exempt their students from paddling.

"A lot of people think it was abolished 20 years ago," Jimmy Dunne, president of People Opposed to Paddling Students (POPS), told ABC News. A former math teacher in the Houston Middle Schools, Dunne founded POPS in 1981 and has been the spanker and spankee. But he refused to participate after noticing that some teachers were "getting sadistic pleasure out of hitting these kids."

He has actively tried to get schools to curb the practice ever since, but he has met with resistance. In June, he appeared at an anti-corporal punishment in schools rally in Washington, D.C., and will be attending a school board meeting on Monday after a 13-year-old student at Barbers Hill Middle School in Houston was covered with welts and bruises after a paddling he received for getting three consecutive zero grades.

"Members of the Texas legislature say,'I was paddled, and I turned out OK,'" he said. "Or they say they want to leave it up to the local district to decide. They think it's good discipline. But it's legalized child abuse. I always say if this was done away from the school, the person would be arrested."

The day after her daughter's paddling, Jorgensen called the vice principal to complain, but was told it was "normal for her bottom to look like this after receiving swats." The vice principal added that he had no idea about the same gender swatting, Jorgensen said.

Neither Jorgensen, nor the vice principal nor Springtown ISD Superintendent Mike Kelley, was available for comment by ABC News. But according to WFAA, Kelley is going to ask the school board to abolish the same gender policy, since adhering to it can be difficult on some campuses.

Jorgensen told WFAA that she will be at the school board meeting to encourage them not to abolish the same-gender policy.

"I think Taylor is proof that we need to keep that policy," she said. "I don't believe a man intentionally meant to do that to her, but it still happens, because men are too big and strong to be hitting 96-pound girls."

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#2 Sep 23, 2012
Wonder if the VP's name is Walt.That mom sure is pretty though.
Spookisbacksoblo wmetrolls

Toledo, OH

#3 Sep 23, 2012
Those welts will go away the kid will fine.
Oliver

Springboro, OH

#4 Sep 23, 2012
Spookisbacksoblowmetrolls wrote:
Those welts will go away the kid will fine.
Agree 100%. Spare the rod and spoil the child! Not only is the current generation spoiled brats but the parents too. The mother sounds like a whiny, spoiled, entitled and clueless trophy wife like you see on the various "housewives" shows.

“Paper Or Plastic?”

Since: Nov 11

Albakoikee

#6 Sep 23, 2012
Spookisbacksoblowmetrolls wrote:
Those welts will go away the kid will fine.
Man, I got at least one paddling every year (usually for fighting) I was in school up until the tenth grade. No lasting effects, either physical or mental. If the parent doesn't keep harping about it, the kid will be fine.

Since: Sep 10

Columbus, OH

#7 Sep 23, 2012
rowdy01 wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, I got at least one paddling every year (usually for fighting) I was in school up until the tenth grade. No lasting effects, either physical or mental. If the parent doesn't keep harping about it, the kid will be fine.
I got several each year of middle school (6-8) mine were for being terminally disruptive in class usually, a few for fighting. Like you, it probably did me more good than anything.

My father never was anything close to abusive but he wouldn't hesitate to crack my rear when I'd get out of line and I'm grateful he did.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#9 Sep 23, 2012
rowdy01 wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, I got at least one paddling every year (usually for fighting) I was in school up until the tenth grade. No lasting effects, either physical or mental. If the parent doesn't keep harping about it, the kid will be fine.
Repeat until behavior changes, eh? and after 10 years you still hadn't learned the lesson?

Schools are really singularly lacking in creativity in matching consequences to behaviors. We act as if the only available choices are suspension or swats. A district that can garner public support for corporal punishment certainly should have not issue getting support for something like washing walls, tutoring students (seems like this would have been a good fit in this situation) or other school-related community service.

My admiration here is for the kid who decided it was important that she not miss any classes.

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#10 Sep 23, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Repeat until behavior changes, eh? and after 10 years you still hadn't learned the lesson?
Schools are really singularly lacking in creativity in matching consequences to behaviors. We act as if the only available choices are suspension or swats. A district that can garner public support for corporal punishment certainly should have not issue getting support for something like washing walls, tutoring students (seems like this would have been a good fit in this situation) or other school-related community service.
My admiration here is for the kid who decided it was important that she not miss any classes.
You make a good point but you have to look at now vs then.Now there are nothing but thug kids being bred because of stupid laws enacted to keep parents from disiplining them properly before they even get to school.Now they have no respect for anything or anybody.I see this everyday everywhere I go.Now they would just thumb thier noses up at community service and tell you to f off.Violence is the only thing that they understand due to everything that they see on a daily basis around them.When I was growing up,I understood that there were consequences for bad actions.Now there are none.They just continue to get away with everything due to the idiot courts not enforcing the laws citing overcrowding of jails etc.It is a no win situation.

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#11 Sep 23, 2012
Kosmik wrote:
<quoted text>
I got several each year of middle school (6-8) mine were for being terminally disruptive in class usually, a few for fighting. Like you, it probably did me more good than anything.
My father never was anything close to abusive but he wouldn't hesitate to crack my rear when I'd get out of line and I'm grateful he did.
Same with me.The first time I was sent to jail,I thought mommy and daddy would get me out.They called the cops and told them to just let me sit there and think about what I did.guess what,it worked.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#12 Sep 23, 2012
Catman Dave wrote:
<quoted text>You make a good point but you have to look at now vs then.Now there are nothing but thug kids being bred because of stupid laws enacted to keep parents from disiplining them properly before they even get to school.Now they have no respect for anything or anybody.I see this everyday everywhere I go.Now they would just thumb thier noses up at community service and tell you to f off.Violence is the only thing that they understand due to everything that they see on a daily basis around them.When I was growing up,I understood that there were consequences for bad actions.Now there are none.They just continue to get away with everything due to the idiot courts not enforcing the laws citing overcrowding of jails etc.It is a no win situation.
Dave, it would seem as though some have confused hitting with discipline. While there are in fact no laws on the books to prevent a parent issueing a spanking, it is generally recognized that this is not a terribly effective means of discipline AND in some cases bleeds over into abuse (from which there are legal protections).

What is most helpful in terms of discipline is consistency. Issuing swats on the bottom is frequently more closely related to a parent's anger than any thought about enforcing a clear expectation. In short, there are better ways, but not necessarily easier ones. Children really do want to know that adults are in charge and setting limits. When they do not experience that the end up desperately seeking where the limits lie--in other words they keep acting up trying to find out what the rules are, more or less.

Boomer the other day said that when he was in schools, he expected students to sit down and be quiet--and they did. That is pretty similar to my own experience in schools--not that there were never challenges (I was a substitute in middle schools). And by the time I was actually in that position in schools, I had a pretty good storehouse of experience behind me to bolster me in being able to act on that expectation. In some cases, it really takes the adults working together in concert--not in blind support of colleagues always being right, but in support of each one doing what it takes to present a consistent adherence to expectations.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#13 Sep 23, 2012
Catman Dave wrote:
<quoted text>You make a good point but you have to look at now vs then.Now there are nothing but thug kids being bred because of stupid laws enacted to keep parents from disiplining them properly before they even get to school.Now they have no respect for anything or anybody.I see this everyday everywhere I go.Now they would just thumb thier noses up at community service and tell you to f off.Violence is the only thing that they understand due to everything that they see on a daily basis around them.When I was growing up,I understood that there were consequences for bad actions.Now there are none.They just continue to get away with everything due to the idiot courts not enforcing the laws citing overcrowding of jails etc.It is a no win situation.
I have to agree with you in a few way. I was never, nor were my kids ever, disciplined with corporal or any physical punishment. Dunno if that was a difference because I had all sisters and all daughters. Worst problem I had was with two of the kids ending up in juvy court over stupid traffic violations. One, we yanked keys, we made her pay for the damages; the other, truly wasn't her fault (icy morning, rear-ender, an SUV slid into her--but automatic in Ohio that if under 18 and in accident, have to appear).

BUT... we have a generation of thugs out there whose only method of communication is violence and obscenities raised by parents who are incompetent and probably never had much discipline either. And I also have a problem with schools having to be the major disciplinarian for kids. Always thought that was the parents' responsibility.

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#14 Sep 23, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave, it would seem as though some have confused hitting with discipline. While there are in fact no laws on the books to prevent a parent issueing a spanking, it is generally recognized that this is not a terribly effective means of discipline AND in some cases bleeds over into abuse (from which there are legal protections).
What is most helpful in terms of discipline is consistency. Issuing swats on the bottom is frequently more closely related to a parent's anger than any thought about enforcing a clear expectation. In short, there are better ways, but not necessarily easier ones. Children really do want to know that adults are in charge and setting limits. When they do not experience that the end up desperately seeking where the limits lie--in other words they keep acting up trying to find out what the rules are, more or less.
Boomer the other day said that when he was in schools, he expected students to sit down and be quiet--and they did. That is pretty similar to my own experience in schools--not that there were never challenges (I was a substitute in middle schools). And by the time I was actually in that position in schools, I had a pretty good storehouse of experience behind me to bolster me in being able to act on that expectation. In some cases, it really takes the adults working together in concert--not in blind support of colleagues always being right, but in support of each one doing what it takes to present a consistent adherence to expectations.
However,back then and now are two totally different times.Try being a substitute now and watch what these kids do to you.And you cant do anything about it without being sued by the parents.Times and laws have come a long way and it's just sad.I'm not saying that all kids are like this now,but most will just kill you in your sleep and get away with it due to the crooked courts.We see this all of the time in the news.It's just sad.

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#15 Sep 23, 2012
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to agree with you in a few way. I was never, nor were my kids ever, disciplined with corporal or any physical punishment. Dunno if that was a difference because I had all sisters and all daughters. Worst problem I had was with two of the kids ending up in juvy court over stupid traffic violations. One, we yanked keys, we made her pay for the damages; the other, truly wasn't her fault (icy morning, rear-ender, an SUV slid into her--but automatic in Ohio that if under 18 and in accident, have to appear).
BUT... we have a generation of thugs out there whose only method of communication is violence and obscenities raised by parents who are incompetent and probably never had much discipline either. And I also have a problem with schools having to be the major disciplinarian for kids. Always thought that was the parents' responsibility.
You got that right.Everybodys hands are legally tied.Weren't those good old days cool?

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#16 Sep 23, 2012
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to agree with you in a few way. I was never, nor were my kids ever, disciplined with corporal or any physical punishment. Dunno if that was a difference because I had all sisters and all daughters. Worst problem I had was with two of the kids ending up in juvy court over stupid traffic violations. One, we yanked keys, we made her pay for the damages; the other, truly wasn't her fault (icy morning, rear-ender, an SUV slid into her--but automatic in Ohio that if under 18 and in accident, have to appear).
BUT... we have a generation of thugs out there whose only method of communication is violence and obscenities raised by parents who are incompetent and probably never had much discipline either. And I also have a problem with schools having to be the major disciplinarian for kids. Always thought that was the parents' responsibility.
The second paragraph of your post reminds me of something.The only kids that I see now that have respect for adults are the ones raised by thier grandparents because thier parents cant handle the responsibility.And those kids are doing great.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#17 Sep 23, 2012
Catman Dave wrote:
<quoted text>However,back then and now are two totally different times.Try being a substitute now and watch what these kids do to you.And you cant do anything about it without being sued by the parents.Times and laws have come a long way and it's just sad.I'm not saying that all kids are like this now,but most will just kill you in your sleep and get away with it due to the crooked courts.We see this all of the time in the news.It's just sad.
It hasn't been all that long since I was substituting. And I have had a pretty consistent string of contacts with kids through other means as well.

Folks have been saying for generations--centuries even--that the latest generation doesn't measure up. For a class I took I ran across an interesting tidbit with regard to legal findings that established the right of schools to assign homework. What was interesting was the Supreme Court case that made the first determination that schools could assign work outside of school. It was a strange case--late 1800's or so. The assumption that schools had no right to assign such work was being offered as a defense in a case in which an angered student--being punished for not doing such work--killed a teacher with an ax.

My particular anecdotal experience, by the way, suggests that the low-income families (the ones that only have one parent) are somewhat more likely to be beievers in corporal punishment. And simply as a matter of survival, the limits on those kids tend to be more restrictive (things like staying in the yard, coming straight home from school and so forth).

“Paper Or Plastic?”

Since: Nov 11

Albakoikee

#18 Sep 23, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Repeat until behavior changes, eh? and after 10 years you still hadn't learned the lesson?
Schools are really singularly lacking in creativity in matching consequences to behaviors. We act as if the only available choices are suspension or swats. A district that can garner public support for corporal punishment certainly should have not issue getting support for something like washing walls, tutoring students (seems like this would have been a good fit in this situation) or other school-related community service.
My admiration here is for the kid who decided it was important that she not miss any classes.
I attended a school system that was full of bullies. I was one of the smallest kids there, but stood up for myself. It didn't matter who started it, both were punished in the same way. Paddling or detention, that was all there was.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#19 Sep 23, 2012
Catman Dave wrote:
<quoted text>You got that right.Everybodys hands are legally tied.Weren't those good old days cool?
I grew up in the 60s/70s and was educated in private schools--and the elementary school I attended was far from swanky, just a simple parish school, everyone in the hood attended one or two schools, everyone knew each other. No need for corporal punishment. We had a "grapevine" going on in that hood. If we did ANYTHING, my parents knew before we got home and we got drilled. The teachers had a direct line to the parents. Neighbors felt free to call the offenders' parents before calling the cops. Parents were worse than the cops and typically took responsibility for their offspring. The worst thing in the world to these kids was to get their ears boxed or their ass kicked by those old-fashioned Catholic Europeans...and those mothers were just as strong (not just physically but mentally) as the fathers.

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#20 Sep 23, 2012
rowdy01 wrote:
<quoted text>
I attended a school system that was full of bullies. I was one of the smallest kids there, but stood up for myself. It didn't matter who started it, both were punished in the same way. Paddling or detention, that was all there was.
I went to a catholic gradeschool back in the 70's and thats the way the disipline was there too.I was also the smallest.Bullies suck.

“Cats rule.”

Since: Dec 09

Chardon Ohio.

#21 Sep 23, 2012
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I grew up in the 60s/70s and was educated in private schools--and the elementary school I attended was far from swanky, just a simple parish school, everyone in the hood attended one or two schools, everyone knew each other. No need for corporal punishment. We had a "grapevine" going on in that hood. If we did ANYTHING, my parents knew before we got home and we got drilled. The teachers had a direct line to the parents. Neighbors felt free to call the offenders' parents before calling the cops. Parents were worse than the cops and typically took responsibility for their offspring. The worst thing in the world to these kids was to get their ears boxed or their ass kicked by those old-fashioned Catholic Europeans...and those mothers were just as strong (not just physically but mentally) as the fathers.
Wow! did you just bring back memories.It was exactly the same way when I went to school.What a difference between then and now,huh?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#22 Sep 23, 2012
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No. You don't hit the kids.

And, No. It's just not about adults setting limits.

It's about a moral environment that kids can trust enough to own and enforce themselves guided by a teacher.

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