The Myth of Equal Opportunity

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#23 Feb 19, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it wasn't.
http://columbus.craigslist.org/bar/3626921466...
woof
LOL!

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#24 Feb 19, 2013
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you been to Easton lately, Reader? Lotta money being spent as disposable income by all persuasions. I'm a little tired of the "us vs them and it's all their fault" mentality.
Oh, thank you. You have made everything so simple and easy to understand.

We don't need data to look at things like opportunity, educational outcomes or income gaps.

A simple trip to the shopping center should tell us all we need to know!

I think what you are really trying to say is that you can see black people at your supposedly upscale retail mecca.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#25 Feb 19, 2013
Interesting reflections for a first year teacher in the Mississippi Delta:

Growing up in a largely segregated community, my students see a world that is still divided by black and white. I was worried my answers to their difficult questions would be insufficient. Fortunately, I was but a facilitator to my students answering their own tough questions.

I was humbled to find that instead of my pushing their thinking, it was the students who were able to beautifully and simply explain what Martin Luther King, Jr. believed in.

I asked my students,“What did Martin Luther King fight for?”

One student responded,“He fought to keep white people away from black people.” It was the response I had feared, but knew it would lead to the most important lesson for my students. So I began,“Actually, no, not at all. This is really important, you guys. Listen closely, I need everyone’s eyes and ears.” They leaned in close, ready to listen, but another student raised her hand. I called on her,“Yes, Natasha.” She said, quite simply,“He fought to have black and white Americans get along.” My heart swelled. She said it so much more clearly and purely than I could have. I said,“Yes. That is exactly what he fought for.”

All my students know is a community where black students attend public schools and white students attend private academies. How would I explain to my students the difference between school segregation in the 1950s and the informal segregation they experience today? How could I address this in an empowering way that six year olds would understand?

I longed to be able to talk to my children about how far we have come since Martin Luther King, Jr. shared his dream half a century ago. And yes, in policies and laws there have been drastic changes. But I fear that my students experience a world where not much has changed for black first graders in the Mississippi Delta.

But then my students taught me again. I told them that black and white students were once not allowed to attend the same school until enough people stood up and said those laws were unfair. One of my students raised her hand and said,“Like you! That’s why you can be our teacher now!” I smiled.“Yes, exactly.” My fears were appeased.
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/01/21/di...

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#26 Feb 19, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
Interesting reflections for a first year teacher in the Mississippi Delta:...http://www.takepart.c om/article/2013/01/21/diary-fi rst-year-teacher-racism-still- alive-and-well-mississippi-del ta?cmpid=tp-ad-outbrain-genera l
Carl Mayo, commenter nails it:

The writer's implied message is:

"Parents who remove their kids from bad public schools are bad people. They should care more about equality and fairness than whether their own kids get an education."

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#27 Feb 19, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Carl Mayo, commenter nails it:
The writer's implied message is:
"Parents who remove their kids from bad public schools are bad people. They should care more about equality and fairness than whether their own kids get an education."
The problem of course being that everone does not have equal opportunity to attend private schools.

Recall that one early response to deseg orders was to close down the public schools entirely. That left whites-only private schools as the only option. I believe that sorta turned out to be illegal.

The 2013 variation on the theme is to trash public education--withdrawing not only children but also resources.

The problem is that illiteracy and ignorance are very expensive social problems to have.
Duke for Mayor

Canton, OH

#28 Feb 19, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Carl Mayo, commenter nails it:
The writer's implied message is:
"Parents who remove their kids from bad public schools are bad people. They should care more about equality and fairness than whether their own kids get an education."
I see no problem with them sending their kids to private schools, as long as they pay for it themselves, and don't ask others to fund it for them.

woof

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

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#29 Feb 19, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem of course being that everone does not have equal opportunity to attend private schools.
Recall that one early response to deseg orders was to close down the public schools entirely. That left whites-only private schools as the only option. I believe that sorta turned out to be illegal.
The 2013 variation on the theme is to trash public education--withdrawing not only children but also resources.
The problem is that illiteracy and ignorance are very expensive social problems to have.
The problem of course being that...parents cannot be forced to take responsibility for their children's education.

The End.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#30 Feb 19, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
I see no problem with them sending their kids to private schools, as long as they pay for it themselves, and don't ask others to fund it for them.
woof
Then they should receive a tax credit, as they are not using the public school system.

Otherwise it's double taxation
Duke for Mayor

Canton, OH

#31 Feb 19, 2013
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Then they should receive a tax credit, as they are not using the public school system.
Otherwise it's double taxation
You would be well advised to go read the Ohio Constitution, and the DeRolph opinions.

woof

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#32 Feb 19, 2013
-tip- wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem of course being that...parents cannot be forced to take responsibility for their children's education.
The End.
And in Ohio, neither can the legislature.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#33 Feb 19, 2013
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Then they should receive a tax credit, as they are not using the public school system.
Otherwise it's double taxation
Prime Example #1 of why the everyone who can afford it take their kids to private school non-solution ends up hurting poor kids.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#34 Feb 19, 2013
Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
I see no problem with them sending their kids to private schools, as long as they pay for it themselves, and don't ask others to fund it for them.
woof
In theory, I agree.

However, in Mississippi things have gone way beyond a critical tipping point.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#35 Feb 19, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Prime Example #1 of why the everyone who can afford it take their kids to private school non-solution ends up hurting poor kids.
And a Prime Example of why positive rights should not be incorporated in government charters.

Currently if you send your child to private school, you are paying to educate two kids.(Property taxes)

If you want more public dollars to be around to educate poor kids (not that CMSD isn't flush with my transferred income taxes) then get as many rich people that you know to send their kids to private school.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#36 Feb 19, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
In theory, I agree.
However, in Mississippi things have gone way beyond a critical tipping point.
The Delta region survives on transfer payments. Population there isn't declining fast enough.

If you forcibly abolish private schools and stick every kid into public schools, you are begging for violence.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

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#38 Feb 19, 2013
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
And a Prime Example of why positive rights should not be incorporated in government charters.
Currently if you send your child to private school, you are paying to educate two kids.(Property taxes)
If you want more public dollars to be around to educate poor kids (not that CMSD isn't flush with my transferred income taxes) then get as many rich people that you know to send their kids to private school.
That is a fallacy. Property taxes (and the portion of state income and sales taxes that go to support education) are not levied only on those who have school-aged children.

Until recently public education was widely recognized as a public good, impacting society as a whole by providing educated workers and an enlightened citizenry. It seems as though it is only from the 80s (me generation) or so onward that there has been any sort of support for the notion of tax rebates for those who can afford to send their children to private school.

“Don't trust the internet!”

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#39 Feb 19, 2013
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
The Delta region survives on transfer payments. Population there isn't declining fast enough.
If you forcibly abolish private schools and stick every kid into public schools, you are begging for violence.
In fact, I wouldn't opt to forcibly abolish anything.

Mississippi may be one place where vouchers make some sense--based on the reality of their being sufficient capacity to make some difference. There might also be some other public/private options. Something along the lines of publicly funded expansion of successful academies with a set of conditions--open to the public, inclusion of various socio-economic groups, monitoring of test scores and the like.

But, one cannot get to a solution without at first admitting that there is a problem.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#40 Feb 19, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a fallacy. Property taxes (and the portion of state income and sales taxes that go to support education) are not levied only on those who have school-aged children.
Until recently public education was widely recognized as a public good, impacting society as a whole by providing educated workers and an enlightened citizenry. It seems as though it is only from the 80s (me generation) or so onward that there has been any sort of support for the notion of tax rebates for those who can afford to send their children to private school.
When the public schools were founded, they were based on a mainline Protestant model, and the population was mainly Protestants.

Since people came to this country who were not Protestant, they have set up private and parochial schools. They were pushing for public support as dollars/student, but the "Blaine Amendments" were passed.

When the system had changed, and the explicit Protestantism was purged from the public schools by the Warren Court, we started the widespread idea of vouchers.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#41 Feb 19, 2013
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, I wouldn't opt to forcibly abolish anything.
Mississippi may be one place where vouchers make some sense--based on the reality of their being sufficient capacity to make some difference. There might also be some other public/private options. Something along the lines of publicly funded expansion of successful academies with a set of conditions--open to the public, inclusion of various socio-economic groups, monitoring of test scores and the like.
But, one cannot get to a solution without at first admitting that there is a problem.
The problem is mainly the fault of parents, in many cases the lack of a present father.

That can't be solved by the state.

The Delta region is in decline, has been in decline, and will be unless large oil reserves are found there. We need to start admitting that people who live in depressed areas, should not be paid to stick around. Otherwise we're just maintaining a reservation.

Hugh Victor Thompson III

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

#42 Feb 19, 2013
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
When the public schools were founded, they were based on a mainline Protestant model, and the population was mainly Protestants.
Since people came to this country who were not Protestant, they have set up private and parochial schools. They were pushing for public support as dollars/student, but the "Blaine Amendments" were passed.
When the system had changed, and the explicit Protestantism was purged from the public schools by the Warren Court, we started the widespread idea of vouchers.
We could have ended up with a dual system like they had before 1990 in Ontario. That would have been an interesting concept in this country.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#43 Feb 19, 2013
Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>We could have ended up with a dual system like they had before 1990 in Ontario. That would have been an interesting concept in this country.
I thought they still have tax-funded Catholic schools?

Now to me, I regard that as a terrible idea, Dalton began ordering that they teach in favor of gay rights.

The courts have probably ruled that a Muslim school gets the same treatment.

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