Don't be so hard on yourself, Ohio

May 1, 2014 Full story: The Advocate 27

Ohioans have always had a bit of a complex when it comes to "The Buckeye State," and a recent Gallup poll proves that fact.

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Killumbustan

Reynoldsburg, OH

#1 May 2, 2014
OHIO - Round on the ends and high in the middle.

OHIO - At least we're not Michigan, or Mississippi.
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#2 May 2, 2014
Ohio: The shame of it all.

Ohio is one of those killing states. They love capital punishment, including the most recent botched execution attempt.

Ohio's Republican Governor and his secretary of state accomplice love to rig elections to keep votes for Democrats at a minimum.

Vindictive, corrupt Ohio has it all. It's embarrassing to be from here.
d pantz

Chicago, IL

#3 May 2, 2014
Pobody's Nerfect. This mess is a place! I call it home and I always want to come back.
d pantz

Chicago, IL

#4 May 2, 2014
kuda wrote:
Ohio: The shame of it all.
Ohio is one of those killing states. They love capital punishment, including the most recent botched execution attempt.
Ohio's Republican Governor and his secretary of state accomplice love to rig elections to keep votes for Democrats at a minimum.
Vindictive, corrupt Ohio has it all. It's embarrassing to be from here.
You forgot to mention our republican attorney general who decide public opinion is "dishonest" when it comes to signing ballot initiatives.
just asking

Reynoldsburg, OH

#5 May 2, 2014
kuda wrote:
Ohio: The shame of it all.
Ohio is one of those killing states. They love capital punishment, including the most recent botched execution attempt...
.
How was it botched?

The guy died!

Mission Accomplished!
Duke for Mayor

Cleveland, OH

#6 May 2, 2014
kuda wrote:
Ohio: The shame of it all.
Ohio is one of those killing states. They love capital punishment, including the most recent botched execution attempt.
Ohio's Republican Governor and his secretary of state accomplice love to rig elections to keep votes for Democrats at a minimum.
Vindictive, corrupt Ohio has it all. It's embarrassing to be from here.
No sympathy for the victims, twit. Democrats are the offenders of voter fraud. Plus, they are ugly, fat and stupid.

woof
Duke for Mayor

Cleveland, OH

#7 May 2, 2014
d pantz wrote:
Pobody's Nerfect. This mess is a place! I call it home and I always want to come back.
So, you can always leave. Detroit, Michigan has plenty of room.

woof
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#8 May 3, 2014
just asking wrote:
<quoted text>
How was it botched?
The guy died!
Mission Accomplished!
Had you followed the news, you'd know that it was botched several ways. The governor defied her supreme court decision to hold off on the death sentence. Then, they proceeded with he sentence using an untried chemical cocktail that didn't work as it was supposed to. Some of the chemicals were obtained by secret arrangement from a compounding pharmacy, which was illegal. The prisoner writhed in excruciating pain long after he should have been dead. The constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, which applies to the execution of even the most heinous of convicted murderers. When the execution went wrong, the execution room's blinds were closed to prevent the legal witnesses from witnessing. After 43 minutes, the prisoner did die, but from a heart attack, not the drug cocktail that was supposed to kill him painlessly and quickly.

The bottom line is not that the prisoner died, but that the end did not justify the means. We must address the question, "What kind of people are we?" Are we like the civilized countries that have no capital punishment and refuse to sell drugs to US states for use to kill prisoners, based on ethical principle? The issue is not whether murderers deserve to die, but whether we deserve to kill them.

I'm pleased that we're now reopening this discussion. I believe we'll decide to ban capital punishment.
They cannot kill a Spook

Toledo, OH

#9 May 3, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>
Had you followed the news, you'd know that it was botched several ways. The governor defied her supreme court decision to hold off on the death sentence. Then, they proceeded with he sentence using an untried chemical cocktail that didn't work as it was supposed to. Some of the chemicals were obtained by secret arrangement from a compounding pharmacy, which was illegal. The prisoner writhed in excruciating pain long after he should have been dead. The constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, which applies to the execution of even the most heinous of convicted murderers. When the execution went wrong, the execution room's blinds were closed to prevent the legal witnesses from witnessing. After 43 minutes, the prisoner did die, but from a heart attack, not the drug cocktail that was supposed to kill him painlessly and quickly.
The bottom line is not that the prisoner died, but that the end did not justify the means. We must address the question, "What kind of people are we?" Are we like the civilized countries that have no capital punishment and refuse to sell drugs to US states for use to kill prisoners, based on ethical principle? The issue is not whether murderers deserve to die, but whether we deserve to kill them.
I'm pleased that we're now reopening this discussion. I believe we'll decide to ban capital punishment.
We should use public hanging as the execution method and all executions should be required viewing for a school kids.
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#10 May 3, 2014
They cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
We should use public hanging as the execution method and all executions should be required viewing for a school kids.
You'd really require school kids to witness public killings? Why, pray tell? Have you given any thought to the effect that would have on them and, as a result, our culture's future generations. Would you want to teach children that killing is acceptable? Would you want public executions to become a spectator sport, as in Hussein's Iraq? Do you understand that capital punishment does not decrease the murder rate?

Please give these questions some thought and share your answers. There's no shame in changing your mind.
They cannot kill a Spook

Toledo, OH

#11 May 3, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd really require school kids to witness public killings? Why, pray tell? Have you given any thought to the effect that would have on them and, as a result, our culture's future generations. Would you want to teach children that killing is acceptable? Would you want public executions to become a spectator sport, as in Hussein's Iraq? Do you understand that capital punishment does not decrease the murder rate?
Please give these questions some thought and share your answers. There's no shame in changing your mind.
Yes it would show there is consequences for actions
Doubt it would become a spectator sport. I have seen a few executions in other parts parts of the world. They are generally not gruesome.

What executing someone does is it keeps them from committing another crime. The dead don't steal rape or evan trespass. The dead are not getting free food and housing that I have to pay for.
They cannot kill a Spook

Toledo, OH

#12 May 3, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd really require school kids to witness public killings? Why, pray tell? Have you given any thought to the effect that would have on them and, as a result, our culture's future generations. Would you want to teach children that killing is acceptable? Would you want public executions to become a spectator sport, as in Hussein's Iraq? Do you understand that capital punishment does not decrease the murder rate?
Please give these questions some thought and share your answers. There's no shame in changing your mind.
And killing is acceptable, murder is not. There is a difference.
repo69

Wilmington, OH

#13 May 3, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>Had you followed the news, you'd know that it was botched several ways. The governor defied her supreme court decision to hold off on the death sentence. Then, they proceeded with he sentence using an untried chemical cocktail that didn't work as it was supposed to. Some of the chemicals were obtained by secret arrangement from a compounding pharmacy, which was illegal. The prisoner writhed in excruciating pain long after he should have been dead. The constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, which applies to the execution of even the most heinous of convicted murderers. When the execution went wrong, the execution room's blinds were closed to prevent the legal witnesses from witnessing. After 43 minutes, the prisoner did die, but from a heart attack, not the drug cocktail that was supposed to kill him painlessly and quickly.

The bottom line is not that the prisoner died, but that the end did not justify the means. We must address the question, "What kind of people are we?" Are we like the civilized countries that have no capital punishment and refuse to sell as aa a 14 year prison guard(C/O)I think they should use a rope to hang them,it is cheaper for the taxpayers(rope can be used over&over)As for cruel punishment,ask their victims family what a cruel act was committed to their loved ones!NO ROOM FOR BLEEDING HEARTS ! Justice needs done faster.Nor 15-20 years after!Been there seen them live a peaceful life for many years after sentenced to die. ugs to US states for use to kill prisoners, based on ethical principle? The issue is not whether murderers deserve to die, but whether we deserve to kill them.

I'm pleased that we're now reopening this discussion. I believe we'll decide to ban capital punishment.
i feel that the death penalty is a (small) deterrent to a very serious crime,and after all appeals are exhausted they should be put to death!Hanging seems a good choice(the rope can be reused many times saving tax payer money)With today's technology (DNA etc)Nobody should be on death-row for over 18 months for any reason?(To the bleeding hearts"if they are innocent,they wil get a free ticket to heaven
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#14 May 4, 2014
They cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it would show there is consequences for actions
Doubt it would become a spectator sport. I have seen a few executions in other parts parts of the world. They are generally not gruesome.
What executing someone does is it keeps them from committing another crime. The dead don't steal rape or evan trespass. The dead are not getting free food and housing that I have to pay for.
While killing people does prevent them from murdering other people, it isn't an effective deterrent. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't work the murder rate in states that don't have the death penalty is consistently lower than in states with the death penalty.( http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-d... )

Even if your agenda is to protest helping the unspecified group of people you believe beneath your standard for human consideration, killing them would be an extreme (final) solution, however convenient you might find it.

Killing murderers is also an excessively extreme way to teach school kids that actions have consequences. Good parenting teaches that.

Even though you have witnessed executions and didn't experience them as gruesome, that's not to say that they're appropriate fare for people other than yourself, especially school kids. You may consider people with thinner skin than yours "bleeding hearts," but that doesn't mean we should ignore their feelings.

In a later post, you distinguish between killing and murdering and say that killing is acceptable and murder is not. I submit the difference is nominal i.e., that how you personally feel about it depends on how you personally label it.
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#15 May 4, 2014
repo69 wrote:
<quoted text>i feel that the death penalty is a (small) deterrent to a very serious crime,and after all appeals are exhausted they should be put to death!Hanging seems a good choice(the rope can be reused many times saving tax payer money)With today's technology (DNA etc)Nobody should be on death-row for over 18 months for any reason?(To the bleeding hearts"if they are innocent,they wil get a free ticket to heaven
Empirical data don't support your belief that "the death penalty is a (small) deterrent to a very serious crime." If there's no good reason to kill prisoners, the question of lethal procedure is irrelevant.

As barefoot has repeatedly posted, we do make mistakes and sometimes convict the innocent. If you were sentenced to death for a murder you didn't commit, would you object to a "bleeding heart" caring about it or objecting? Would you consider "a free ticket to heaven" a just reward?
repo69

Wilmington, OH

#16 May 4, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>Empirical data don't support your belief that "the death penalty is a (small) deterrent to a very serious crime." If there's no good reason to kill prisoners, the question of lethal procedure is irrelevant.

As barefoot has repeatedly posted, we do make mistakes and sometimes convict the innocent. If you were sentenced to death for a murder you didn't commit, would you object to a "bleeding heart" caring about it or objecting? Would you consider "a free ticket to heaven" a just reward?
I was a prison guard for 14yrs,everybody in the back door says 'I am innocent' like I said after all appeals('and DNA test) put them to death! We always said"if you couldn't convince 12 jury members,too late to convince me"
They cannot kill a Spook

Toledo, OH

#17 May 4, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>
While killing people does prevent them from murdering other people, it isn't an effective deterrent. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't work the murder rate in states that don't have the death penalty is consistently lower than in states with the death penalty.( http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-d... )
Even if your agenda is to protest helping the unspecified group of people you believe beneath your standard for human consideration, killing them would be an extreme (final) solution, however convenient you might find it.
Killing murderers is also an excessively extreme way to teach school kids that actions have consequences. Good parenting teaches that.
Even though you have witnessed executions and didn't experience them as gruesome, that's not to say that they're appropriate fare for people other than yourself, especially school kids. You may consider people with thinner skin than yours "bleeding hearts," but that doesn't mean we should ignore their feelings.
In a later post, you distinguish between killing and murdering and say that killing is acceptable and murder is not. I submit the difference is nominal i.e., that how you personally feel about it depends on how you personally label it.
So you believe all lilling is murder?
Under your standards a person in their home that shoots someone that breKs in and demands money sexual acts or anything elze should not.be lilling but complied with?

I say killing intruders is not only justified it should be rewarded.
Don't call 911 call the corner to come get the carcasses before they draw flies.
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#18 May 4, 2014
Please read my post again, more carefully. I did not say all killing is murder. All murder is killing, but not vice versa. It has nothing to do with my personal standards. It's only about how the two words are defined.

Perhaps a metaphor will help clarify the relationship: All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats.

I believe we have the right to use the minimal force necessary for defense. Please read that carefully and try not to misunderstand it.
kuda

Cincinnati, OH

#19 May 4, 2014
They cannot kill a Spook wrote:
<quoted text>
So you believe all lilling is murder?
Under your standards a person in their home that shoots someone that breKs in and demands money sexual acts or anything elze should not.be lilling but complied with?
I say killing intruders is not only justified it should be rewarded.
Don't call 911 call the corner to come get the carcasses before they draw flies.
Please read my post again, more carefully. I did not say all killing is murder. All murder is killing, but not vice versa. It has nothing to do with my personal standards. It's only about how the two words are defined.

Perhaps a metaphor will help clarify the relationship: All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats.

I believe we have the right to use the minimal force necessary for defense. Please read that carefully and try not to misunderstand it.
They cannot kill a Spook

Toledo, OH

#20 May 4, 2014
kuda wrote:
<quoted text>
Please read my post again, more carefully. I did not say all killing is murder. All murder is killing, but not vice versa. It has nothing to do with my personal standards. It's only about how the two words are defined.
Perhaps a metaphor will help clarify the relationship: All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats.
I believe we have the right to use the minimal force necessary for defense. Please read that carefully and try not to misunderstand it.
Castle doctrine, codified in law on several states, treats home, structures, some include yards or any place a citizen may be such as a restaurant, as sovereign and any force including overwhelming firepower may be used to kill an attacker.
There is an old saying that has been repeated to me by several prosecutors around the country, "Dead men tell no lies on the stand" in other words better to kill them than to wound them and have them lie to investigators, a grand jury, or during a civil case against you later.

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