Pregnant Girlfriend Forced To Abortion Clinic; 6 Counts For Accused

Oct 19, 2010 Full story: News Channel 11 148

COLUMBUS , Ohio -- A local man is indicted on six counts after he is accused of kidnapping the mother of his unborn baby and forcing her to go to an abortion clinic at gunpoint.

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tip

United States

#23 Oct 21, 2010
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
You can not hurt a fetus with out having an all too often fatal effect on both the woman and the fetus..
A brilliant argument against abortion. Thank you, Kathwynn.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#24 Oct 21, 2010
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Before you call me "clueless", please, please tell me that your extensive experience "arguing" this has availed you of the definition of the term.
Fetal homicide refers to the death of the mom or the death of the fetus? Do I really need to get the building blocks out like this? If you're not clear, just check the link you sent me and report back.
Check with the post above yours... I think you nered to have a picturs drawn for you...

Simple really.. A woman who has been harmed in the commission of a crime.. And loses the fetus..

With me so far scooter..

The criminal will be charged with both the offense against the woman and depending on what the doctor or corner reports has.. Can be charged with fetal homicide.. This charge is one that while masquerade as one thing is really a violation of the woman civil rights..

As per rose V wade.. A woman was found to not only have the right to seek out an abortion, but also has the right to have say over her reproduction..

See not to difficult to follow..

So in a "fetal Homicide" case what you have is a criminal that has violated a woman civil rights.. One that aside from what the government can charge.. the family or woman can pursue as well.. As there is only 37 states that have the fetal homicide laws. In such cases where no fetal homicide law exists. Upon conviction some families may chose to pursue such a case...

Get it scooter.. Not at all hard to understand.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#25 Oct 21, 2010
tip wrote:
<quoted text>
A brilliant argument against abortion. Thank you, Kathwynn.
An abortion is a safe medical procedure..

with all the risks that any medical procedure carries..

you dolts would like to believe differently and use stupidity and emotional endearments as though they were facts..

Stark facts.. An abortion is a woman choice.. Found to be Constitutional.

In the 37 years any case that has gone before the Supreme Court has only strengthened that fact.
tip

United States

#26 Oct 21, 2010
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Check with the post above yours... I think you nered to have a picturs drawn for you...
Pure contortionism.

Recognize a pattern below?(Just grabbed the first few alphabetized states in the list....)

Alabama: Legislation taking effect July 1, 2006 (HB 19) amended Section 13A-6-1 of the Code of Alabama to include "an UNBORN CHILD in utero AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT, regardless of viability" as a "PERSON" and "HUMAN BEING" for purposes of the state laws dealing with murder, manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, and assault.

Alaska: Alaska Statutes 11.41 (as amended by Senate Bill 20, enacted June 16, 2006) establishes the crimes of "murder of an UNBORN CHILD," "manslaughter of an unborn CHILD," "criminally negligent homicide of an unborn CHILD," and "assault of an unborn CHILD." Alaska Statutes 11.81.900(b) defines "UNBORN CHILD" as "A MEMBER OF SPECIES HOMO SAPIENS, AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT, who is carried in the womb."

Arizona: The "UNBORN CHILD in the womb AT ANY STAGE OF ITS DEVELOPMENT" is fully covered by the state's murder and manslaughter statutes. For purposes of establishing the level of punishment, a victim who is "an UNBORN CHILD SHALL BE TREATED LIKE A MINOR WHO IS UNDER TWELVE YEARS OF AGE."

Georgia: Legislation taking effect July 1, 2006 (SB 77) recognizes an "UNBORN CHILD" (defined as "a MEMBER OF THE SPECIES HOMO SAPIENS AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT who is carried in the womb") as a victim of the offenses of feticide, voluntary manslaughter of an unborn CHILD, assault of an unborn CHILD, and battery of an unborn CHILD. Legislation (SB 529) taking effect July 1, 2008 recognizes the crimes of "feticide by vehicle" in the first and second degree.(Section 40-6-393.1)

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#27 Oct 21, 2010
tip wrote:
<quoted text>
Pure contortionism.
Recognize a pattern below?(Just grabbed the first few alphabetized st**DELETED***)
Clearly you will not understand.. So join the packs of fools..

In the end all those laws are there to protect the pregnant woman.. But that is ok I understand it is hard to break the bull that is handed out by the "prolife" rather believe the emotional bullshyt. Than face the reality...

Reality is that a fetus has no rights.. If you had carefully read rather than cherry pick.. you would have seen that fact..
tip

United States

#28 Oct 21, 2010
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly you will not understand.. So join the packs of fools..
In the end all those laws are there to protect the pregnant woman.. But that is ok I understand it is hard to break the bull that is handed out by the "prolife" rather believe the emotional bullshyt. Than face the reality...
Reality is that a fetus has no rights.. If you had carefully read rather than cherry pick.. you would have seen that fact..
According to the statutes, each of the above states [as examples], recognize the fetus as a PERSON --- spelled out in black and white. No cherry picking involved.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#29 Oct 21, 2010
tip wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the statutes, each of the above states [as examples], recognize the fetus as a PERSON --- spelled out in black and white. No cherry picking involved.
No what it recognizes.. Why am I bothering? Is that where it says reread it again.. they are treating the fetus as a minor.. Get it Minor treating.. Not granting any rights to the fetus.. Do we understand each other..

Sadly I think you are not going to understand these simple facts..
tip

United States

#30 Oct 21, 2010
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
No what it recognizes.. Why am I bothering? Is that where it says reread it again.. they are treating the fetus as a minor.. Get it Minor treating.. Not granting any rights to the fetus.. Do we understand each other..
Sadly I think you are not going to understand these simple facts..
From the Free Legal Dictionary:

minor, n., someone under legal age, which is generally 18, except for certain purposes such as drinking alcoholic beverages.(See: legal age, maturity)

Minor = PERSON

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#31 Oct 21, 2010
tip wrote:
<quoted text>
From the Free Legal Dictionary:
minor, n., someone under legal age, which is generally 18, except for certain purposes such as drinking alcoholic beverages.(See: legal age, maturity)
Minor = PERSON
Thank you.

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#32 Oct 21, 2010
tip wrote:
<quoted text>
From the Free Legal Dictionary:
minor, n., someone under legal age, which is generally 18, except for certain purposes such as drinking alcoholic beverages.(See: legal age, maturity)
Minor = PERSON
And again for stupid boy.. treated not actual.. D*mn why are you fools bent so much on being this stupid...
tip

United States

#33 Oct 21, 2010
Rolls eyes. Shakes head. Laughs out loud.

Since: Mar 09

Baton Rouge, LA

#34 Oct 21, 2010
In these statutes cited, where exactly do you think the location of the "UNBORN CHILD" is? Duh.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#35 Oct 21, 2010
tip wrote:
Rolls eyes. Shakes head. Laughs out loud.
Doncha love it when the argument rolls around to being called "stupid" or "ignorant" even when you provide data and citations to support your conclusions?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#36 Oct 21, 2010
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
An abortion is a safe medical procedure..
with all the risks that any medical procedure carries..
you dolts would like to believe differently and use stupidity and emotional endearments as though they were facts..
Stark facts.. An abortion is a woman choice.. Found to be Constitutional.
In the 37 years any case that has gone before the Supreme Court has only strengthened that fact.
If there are risks, then a "safe" medical procedure is relative, and not a strong argument. ANY medical procedure is risky. Most women can have babies without any medical help, but abortion requires medical help. That makes abortion, an unnatural medical operation, more risky than abortion, period.

MANY things are are woman's choice, and a man's choice, but the mere existence of choice is meaningless. When people abuse choices, like taking drugs, laws are passed to prevent it.

What is constitutional is a matter of interpretation, and that can change, and has changed over time. Slavery was constitutional as well at one point, and then it was overturned. Any and all civil rights and laws are subject to regulation, revocation, or modification ... period. Heck, there is also civil war and revolution when governments utterly fail to protect society, so NO law is sacred, NO law is forever.

37 years is hardly enough time for things to change in a nation that is over 200 years, and a culture that is 1600 years old. A paltry 37 years is nothing. But it is perhaps enough time to see how mass abortion is effecting society as a whole with lowered birthrates.

These are stark facts. No emotionalism, religion, ideology, or beliefs required. But if you want emotionalism, then just ask women that regret having an abortion, being forced into one by irresponsible men, or being convinced that it was normal when they knew deep down that it violated their most basic nature of being a mother.

Since: Mar 09

Baton Rouge, LA

#37 Oct 21, 2010
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
If there are risks, then a "safe" medical procedure is relative, and not a strong argument. ANY medical procedure is risky. Most women can have babies without any medical help, but abortion requires medical help. That makes abortion, an unnatural medical operation, more risky than abortion, period.
MANY things are are woman's choice, and a man's choice, but the mere existence of choice is meaningless. When people abuse choices, like taking drugs, laws are passed to prevent it.
What is constitutional is a matter of interpretation, and that can change, and has changed over time. Slavery was constitutional as well at one point, and then it was overturned. Any and all civil rights and laws are subject to regulation, revocation, or modification ... period. Heck, there is also civil war and revolution when governments utterly fail to protect society, so NO law is sacred, NO law is forever.
37 years is hardly enough time for things to change in a nation that is over 200 years, and a culture that is 1600 years old. A paltry 37 years is nothing. But it is perhaps enough time to see how mass abortion is effecting society as a whole with lowered birthrates.
These are stark facts. No emotionalism, religion, ideology, or beliefs required. But if you want emotionalism, then just ask women that regret having an abortion, being forced into one by irresponsible men, or being convinced that it was normal when they knew deep down that it violated their most basic nature of being a mother.
I'd like to reply to everything silly you've said, but honey, you have got to know that more women die from giving birth in hospitals in the United States than from abortion. Period. There's a reason we rank in the thirties in world wide mother mortality rates. No respect, no education, and no willingness to allow women to make their own choices. Tell ya what though, when I've met a woman who regrets her abortion, I'll let you know. So far though, most of the women in my life had support systems and understanding families. "Basic nature of being a mother," comment made me squirt milk through my nose. When gender is completely removed from the equation, both men and women make equally good parents. Restricting a service that is needed, is what's a violation.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#38 Oct 21, 2010
JoyofLife wrote:
<quoted text> I'd like to reply to everything silly you've said, but honey, you have got to know that more women die from giving birth in hospitals in the United States than from abortion. Period. There's a reason we rank in the thirties in world wide mother mortality rates. No respect, no education, and no willingness to allow women to make their own choices. Tell ya what though, when I've met a woman who regrets her abortion, I'll let you know. So far though, most of the women in my life had support systems and understanding families. "Basic nature of being a mother," comment made me squirt milk through my nose. When gender is completely removed from the equation, both men and women make equally good parents. Restricting a service that is needed, is what's a violation.
Nope.

http://www.afterabortion.org/reasmor.html

Also, abortions have never been practiced on such a massive scale before. AND, after 37 years of being legal, we are only now dealing with new medical issues related to the practice.

It's a medical fact. Abortion is not nature. Birth is, and even long before modern medical facilities, most women survived childbirth.

And the rest of your arguments make no sense. A man cannot be a mother, there is no equality in that department. I said NOTHING about parentage, as I know full well that father's can raise children equally as well as mothers, as my father had.

Never met a woman that regretted it? Because they don't talk about it, silly. Do you ASK??????

http://www.afterabortion.com/

Also a new thing in society, since legalized abortion has not been around long enough to weigh its FULL impact on society and women.

And then there is the motive why women are not informed of the risks of abortion ... money. Billions of dollars. Its a profit industry, and we taxpayers supplies 400 million dollars to that profit to Planned Parenthood alone last year.

Wrong on all counts. Women need to be informed. Questions need to be asked.

Since: Mar 09

Baton Rouge, LA

#39 Oct 21, 2010
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, abortions have never been practiced on such a massive scale before. AND, after 37 years of being legal, we are only now dealing with new medical issues related to the practice.
It's a medical fact. Abortion is not nature. Birth is, and even long before modern medical facilities, most women survived childbirth....(clipped for length)
Okay, yeah, I ask. Sure, I do. It's something women do talk about. I've been able to be there for a couple of friends. Have you ever had to hold a woman's hand through a necessary procedure? Part of that is being nonjudgmental enough and approachable enough for people to be able to even hold such a conversation with you in the first place. My comment on parenting was in reference to your "natural mother" thing. It's bull. That's all. Women are no more naturally mothers than men are naturally mothers. Nurturing isn't innate by gender. That's been proven. As for your "fact" of abortion causing problems... gimmie one reference that doesn't have an obvious anti-choice slant, and I'll give it consideration. So far, all my pre-nursing texts and articles that I've been able to find are completely without conclusion as far as that's concerned. The body can abort naturally, or miscarry. Many procedures are done in such a way so as to mimic this natural occurrence and reduce trauma to the woman, which is far less traumatic than actually giving birth.
Furthermore, abortion has been around, prescribed, and recommended for, literally, THOUSANDS of years. We even know of methods prescribed by Roman physicians. We know certain animals in the wild cause their own miscarriages. My grandmother still has a tea recipe that girls in her village used to use. Keep up! It's been here as long as birth's been here.

The biggest harm caused to women are those out there who would restrict the information and access they need. Cases of people in my life who've sought abortions: 1.) Ectopic (she would have died) 2.) Fetus died and could not be removed without a d&c, which is hard to find here, or major surgery 3.) cousin abused by her father (he's in jail now, she was 11, which we know giving birth at that age would have killed her) 4.) friend used condoms with husband and was waiting for kids to leave home before divorcing, very religious, abusive relationship, he impregnated her on purpose to try to keep her at the age of 46 (her doctor recommended it due to severe scar tissue which would not have allowed the pregnancy to go to term). What's your direct experience in assisting actual human beings, known as women, with their difficult choices regarding reproduction?

Interesting side note though, counselors are now being encouraged to talk to women regarding the natures of their relationships. It seems that many young women seeking abortions today are doing so due to manipulation on the part of their male partners. So far I've heard of hiding pills, poking holes in condoms, agreeing to get pregnant with a girl then insisting on an abortion as a means of control, etc. We don't educate men at all regarding their treatment of women and their own responsibility to safeguard their own genetic material. It's all put on the woman, which I guess is unfair, but she is usually the one to raise the child should the dude take off. Which, for those male activists out there, is why they don't get a say.

As for interesting societal ramifications, do you think women would seek abortion if they knew that men would step up? More often than not, no. Without a doubt. You can't know why a woman would do what she does, but if she had actual support things would probably be different. Just as people howl about adoption and life, they never really see the lives of the women who make such difficult choices.

SAFE! RARE! ACCESSIBLE!

“More than TWO parties!”

Since: Feb 10

Columbus

#40 Oct 21, 2010
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why abortion should be illegal again. It is abused, like drug use, that effects the women that get them and society as a whole.
Respectfully, there are many rights and privileges that are abused in this country... but those abuses do not mean that we should take them away from everyone.
Right to free speech - the KKK abuses this right to spew hate
freedom of religion - Westboro church, branch Davidians
bare arms - any gun crime

Abortion is an ugly choice, and I certainly hope that no one I love ever has to make it... but the choice should STILL be left up them, not you, I, or law makers.

Since: Mar 09

Baton Rouge, LA

#41 Oct 21, 2010
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope.
http://www.afterabortion.org/reasmor.html
Also, abortions have never been practiced on such a massive scale before. AND, after 37 years of being legal, we are only now dealing with new medical issues related to the practice.
It's a medical fact. Abortion is not nature. Birth is, and even long before modern medical facilities, most women survived childbirth.
And the rest of your arguments make no sense. A man cannot be a mother, there is no equality in that department. I said NOTHING about parentage, as I know full well that father's can raise children equally as well as mothers, as my father had.
Never met a woman that regretted it? Because they don't talk about it, silly. Do you ASK??????
http://www.afterabortion.com/
Also a new thing in society, since legalized abortion has not been around long enough to weigh its FULL impact on society and women.
And then there is the motive why women are not informed of the risks of abortion ... money. Billions of dollars. Its a profit industry, and we taxpayers supplies 400 million dollars to that profit to Planned Parenthood alone last year.
Wrong on all counts. Women need to be informed. Questions need to be asked.


Yeah, the history of abortion goes back thousands of years. As for modern ramifications, projections were worse prior to legalization. Based on demographics of that day involving the rising numbers of illegitimacy as well as neglected and abused children, the more wanted children of today are better off. Being raised by a parent that can feed and support you is much better than living among 9 other siblings trying to subsist off 5 acres of land.

You don't know why, you can't judge, and you certainly aren't helping women by restricting their information and access to a needed medical procedure. If women had prior affordable access and knowledge of birth control, and/or a supportive socio-economic living situation, that this would be a choice outside of medical necessity? Come on.

I do ask women. I know the friends of mine who have and haven't. Maybe I come across as less judgmental. Perhaps the women I know aren't being encouraged by a religious institution/family/spouses/etc . to feel bad about medical decisions that saved their lives. Who knows? I've been blessed to be able to be there for several of my friends. The website you've listed is biased. PASS is not recognized anymore than homosexuality as a psychological disorder. I think it's very valid to believe that the depression these women experience is a guilt imposed upon them by a judgmental society that tells them they must reproduce or be worthless. It was a sad website, but biased and not what I would call clear in it's facts. A study done by a drug company or PL group is not trustworthy.

My response to parenting was to your "natural mother" garbage. I'm not a mother on purpose because I know, as has been proven, that nurturing isn't necessarily natural, especially along gender lines.

As for the "affects" of abortion... really? Besides PASS, which isn't even recognized by the APA, there are no provable, consistent issues that arise from a standard abortion procedure. No cancer, no scientifically based provable issue at all! It's made up. Poof! I could go on to make fun of the website you suggested, but I'll stop now. I don't want to be mean, but unless you can understand what drives a woman to go to such means, how can you begin to help her?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#42 Oct 22, 2010
kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Check with the post above yours... I think you nered to have a picturs drawn for you...
Simple really.. A woman who has been harmed in the commission of a crime.. And loses the fetus..
With me so far scooter..
The criminal will be charged with both the offense against the woman and depending on what the doctor or corner reports has.. Can be charged with fetal homicide.. This charge is one that while masquerade as one thing is really a violation of the woman civil rights..
As per rose V wade.. A woman was found to not only have the right to seek out an abortion, but also has the right to have say over her reproduction..
See not to difficult to follow..
So in a "fetal Homicide" case what you have is a criminal that has violated a woman civil rights.. One that aside from what the government can charge.. the family or woman can pursue as well.. As there is only 37 states that have the fetal homicide laws. In such cases where no fetal homicide law exists. Upon conviction some families may chose to pursue such a case...
Get it scooter.. Not at all hard to understand.
I'm not sure why you sepent so much time calling me "scooter" and so little time answering the question.

Who's the homicide victim in a fetal homicide case? Do you not know?

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