Presbyterians Drop Anti-Gay Policy Ba...

Presbyterians Drop Anti-Gay Policy Barring GLBT Clerics

There are 15 comments on the EDGE story from Jul 9, 2011, titled Presbyterians Drop Anti-Gay Policy Barring GLBT Clerics. In it, EDGE reports that:

American people of faith celebrated another milestone on July 10, when the Presbyterian Church officially eradicated an anti-gay policy barring openly gay and lesbian clerics, a More Light Presbyterians media release said.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#1 Jul 10, 2011
"Vitality among inclusive churches". See what equality produces. Now only if we can get the religious oppressors out of government we would see "vitality" all across America.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#2 Jul 10, 2011
The Presbyterians now join the ELCA Lutherans, the United Church Of Christ, and The Episcopal Church in ordaining gay and lesbian people !

:)
Bruce

Nashville, TN

#3 Jul 10, 2011
This is not the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) it's the PCUSA (the more liberal sect).

“II Samuel 1:26”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#5 Jul 10, 2011
This is excellent. Perhaps the United Methodists will be next.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#6 Jul 10, 2011
Bruce wrote:
This is not the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) it's the PCUSA (the more liberal sect).
This is the PC(USA) and not the PCA. I believe that the PC(USA) is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S. The PCA is about 1/10 the size of the PC(USA).

They come form the Calvinist tradition. But I cannot buy, and never have, Jean Cauvin's doctrine of predestination, which is one of the main tenets of Presbyterianism.
Snickers

Grove City, PA

#7 Jul 10, 2011
Frank Stanton wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the PC(USA) and not the PCA. I believe that the PC(USA) is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S. The PCA is about 1/10 the size of the PC(USA).
They come form the Calvinist tradition. But I cannot buy, and never have, Jean Cauvin's doctrine of predestination, which is one of the main tenets of Presbyterianism.
Key fact about this: PCA is growing. PCUSA is losing membership. Expect those trends to accelerate.

Predestination is not one of the main tenets. It is almost never mentioned, and it is radically misunderstood.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#8 Jul 10, 2011
Snickers wrote:
<quoted text>
Key fact about this: PCA is growing. PCUSA is losing membership. Expect those trends to accelerate.
Predestination is not one of the main tenets. It is almost never mentioned, and it is radically misunderstood.
I'll stick with my Lutheran church. I'm sure our Communion Beer is better and colder than yours.

:)
Snickers

Grove City, PA

#9 Jul 10, 2011
" 'We know God is at work when almost all presbyteries voted more strongly for the welcome and inclusion of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender members than ever before, in the history of the Presbyterian Church,' added Edwards."

This is an emphatic lie. The vote was not "almost all presbyteries voted strongly for welcome." The vote count was 96-74. This has caused deep division in the PCUSA Church, and I promise you much planning is taking place amongst congretations and presbyteries to separate from the PCUSA denomination.

Also, the wording in its previous form was never "Keep gays and lesbians out." It was simply a pastor must either be married or celibate. THAT was the wording that was taken out. Now gays and lesbians who are neither married nor celibate see an open door. It is a travesty. It means a man or woman can be sleeping around with lots of women and/or men, and nothing in the wording can keep them from being an ordained pastor.

You can see it all here.

http://www.layman.org/Vote_Chart.aspx
Snickers

Grove City, PA

#10 Jul 10, 2011
Frank Stanton wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll stick with my Lutheran church. I'm sure our Communion Beer is better and colder than yours.
:)
So that's what is wrong with the Lutherans. I always wondered.
Cole Younger

New York, NY

#11 Jul 10, 2011
Snickers wrote:
<quoted text>
So that's what is wrong with the Lutherans. I always wondered.
Nope. Nuthin wrong with us ! Our Communion Beer is ALWAYS ice cold ready to welcome ANYBODY who walks in our door !

At "St. Katharina's German Lutheran Church And Microbrewery" Pastor Bob always makes susre we have a keg tapped for all visitors !

Our church is named for Martin Luther's wife who was in charge of their church's brewery and she became a skilled brewmeister herself !

:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_von_Bo...
Snickers

Grove City, PA

#12 Jul 10, 2011
BTW, you should know that the reason this vote finally went through after several attempts to get it through is that many members and entire congregations have left PCUSA over even the consideration of this change. The passage of this change was not the hand of God. It was the absence of people to vote against it. Serious conservative Christians will be abandoning the denomination like people jumping off a sinking ship.

All this change, and the PCUSA denomination has already lost so many people that churches are financially strapped. "Most Presbyterians expect that financial hardship will prevent an increasing number of Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) congregations to be led by full-time installed pastors... Currently, less than half of PC(USA) congregations have a full-time, installed pastor."

http://www.pcusa.org/news/2011/4/21/lack-mone...

So tell me homosexuals are going to be falling all over themselves to be a pastor in that denomination. All that fighting and all that running people off from the denomination for very little. Sort of makes you all the kings of nothing, don't you think.
unknown

Elizabethtown, KY

#13 Jul 10, 2011
thats nasty an wrong

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Silver Spring, MD

#14 Jul 10, 2011
Snickers wrote:
BTW, you should know that the reason this vote finally went through after several attempts to get it through is that many members and entire congregations have left PCUSA
Talibangelicals can never deal in reality, but here goes anyway:

Western, industrialized societies are becoming more secular.

As this happens the fringe, anti rational, fundie cults are gaining adherents relative to other, saner types of faiths.

So overall, we have a polarization. That means non fundie, middle of the road religions are losing ground across the board, regardless of their exact stance on glbt rights or clergy.

Sort of like the shrinking middle class in a polarizing economy.
Harry

Sunbury, OH

#15 Jul 11, 2011
writewingproxycontin wrote:
<quoted text>
Talibangelicals can never deal in reality, but here goes anyway:
Western, industrialized societies are becoming more secular.
As this happens the fringe, anti rational, fundie cults are gaining adherents relative to other, saner types of faiths.
So overall, we have a polarization. That means non fundie, middle of the road religions are losing ground across the board, regardless of their exact stance on glbt rights or clergy.
Sort of like the shrinking middle class in a polarizing economy.
I think that means people do not like luke warm and fuzzy wishy washy religions where the leaders don't know how to stand on firm on Biblical principles. I won't argue with you there.

I go to a Presbyterian church (PCUSA), and I can tell you they are losing people. I am on the way out. There are two PCUSA's within five miles of each other where I live. Neither one has a pastor. They are also mostly elderly people who just wanted to have a church and pastor to help them in their final years. The liberals and GLBT activists have pulled the rug out from under those people. It is hard for them to change churches with such limited choices in a rural area and hard for them to stay. This goes way beyond people not wanting to stay in a church where a gay man living with his lover might come to pastor. It is a denomination struggling to attract pastors not only because of limited funds but also because people don't want to be a part of pastoring in such a conflicted and contentious environment. And now that so many people have left giving the liberals their way with the denomination, it means being a part of an institution that runs counter to your own Christian beliefs. I don't blame people coming out of the seminary for wanting to go with a more Bibically oriented church, but is leaves churches like mine in a real bind. It is heartbreaking. I will never believe such division and deprivation comes from God. This is Satan at work, and he couldn't have picked a better issue to divide and destroy, not only churches but individuals as well.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Parksley, VA

#16 Jul 11, 2011
Harry wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that means people do not like luke warm and fuzzy wishy washy religions where the leaders don't know how to stand on firm on Biblical principles. I won't argue with you there.
No, it means rational, non bigoted, better educated people in the industrialized West are moving away from organized religion of any kind, on average.

The uber "religious" freeeks are retreating into the doctrinal equivalents of armed, anti rational compounds.

This all does mean non fundie, non bigoted, non ignorant religions or sects will probably suffer continued membership declines. It does not mean the society as a whole is becoming more talibangelical.

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