The Great Green Energy Crack-Up

The Great Green Energy Crack-Up

There are 558 comments on the Forbes.com story from Oct 22, 2011, titled The Great Green Energy Crack-Up. In it, Forbes.com reports that:

I am a senior fellow in climate studies at the Cato Institute and in research and economic development at George Mason University.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Forbes.com.

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“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#1 Oct 22, 2011
Confucius say, "Woman aviator fly upside down have crack-up."

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#2 Oct 22, 2011
"Guess what? Electricity prices have gone through the roof. The average U.K. household bill is a tad under $200 per month, and so the thermostat goes down. Itís pretty chilly there for much of the year, and a cold house has consequences. A study just came out today on the health costs of what they call ďfuel povertyĒ, commissioned by the Energy and Climate Change Secretary (donít we need one of those?), Chris Huhne. Bottom line: the chill from green taxes is now killing more Brits per year than car crashes."
-
Meanwhile, back on power use:
How Much is the Average Electricity Bill in the UK ?
Average electricity usage of 3,300 kWh for standard single rate electricity thatís averaged across all regions
http://www.electricityprices.org.uk/average-e...
As I suspected, 275 kWh per month is a fair average.
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#4 Oct 23, 2011
(Patrick Michaels) "I am a senior fellow in climate studies at the Cato Institute and in research and economic development at George Mason University."

By inference and if you wish to validate it, he has not clue about AGW, solar, wind or other technologies. He is purely a lobbyist writer' making up anything he can to push an agenda.

The fact is that alternative energies are a vital part of the future, providing high quality jobs, reducing costs by eliminating the extortion for oil and coal, providing energy security, etc.

Wind is viable as is, as is biogas, geothermal, nuclear etc.

Solar is viable as an alternative to high priced 'spot market' or 'peak generator' capacity for the peak demand period (when solar is strongest).

And all of these technologies are getting cheaper year by year as the technology matures, while fossil fool energy is getting more and more expensive as the 'low hanging fruit' is picked.

Forbes should be ashamed of itself for publishing such unsuppported tripe, even as an opinion piece.
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#5 Oct 23, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
"Guess what? Electricity prices have gone through the roof.
And why, we ask.

http://www.rtpi.org.uk/download/5306/Electric...
Well, what fuels are being used to generate the power?

Coal 39% fossil fuel based
Gas 37%
Nuclear 17%
Oil 5%
Imports 2%
----------
Renewables 1% cleane nergy based

Well, it is obvious now. The steadily increasing price of fossil fuels is the culprit. One percent investment in the alternatives that are decreasing in price can have NO major impact against such a fossil fuel dominated energy generation plan.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#6 Oct 24, 2011
Iberdrola is currently charging just over 0.14Ä ($0.197411) per kWh of electricity, quite a bit over the US average of $0.09.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#7 Oct 24, 2011
Funny, but I think I might of mentioned a few of the points this person made. Like the fact that wind and solar had issues with the enviroment and that they cost far more than the power they produced.

The simple fact is that feeling guilty is the first luxury people get rid of when times are tight.
John

United States

#8 Oct 26, 2011
tina anne wrote:
Funny, but I think I might of mentioned a few of the points this person made. Like the fact that wind and solar had issues with the enviroment and that they cost far more than the power they produced.
The simple fact is that feeling guilty is the first luxury people get rid of when times are tight.
Uninformed ???

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#9 Oct 26, 2011
John wrote:
<quoted text>Uninformed ???
Most likely, yes your unimformed and inexperienced as well.
John

Morocco, IN

#10 Oct 27, 2011
Your lacking in every subject.....that's obvious.
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#11 Oct 28, 2011
11:13 am, Friday, October 28, 2011:
RE: The Great Green Energy Crack-Up
..... Practical considerations usually trump idealized political suggestions. But using the sizes of the slowly receding glaziers, and rising ocean levels, as some kind of "thermometer" something will be done eventually about global warming trends, for example.
..... DC electricity from variable wind energy should be used to charge batteries for reliable continued usage. Then that DC electricity from the batteries at low voltage could be used as is, for example for lighting, and also converters to AC electricity could push energy from those batteries into the grid - but it may only be practical when grid electricity prices are high enough.
SAYER

United States

#12 Oct 28, 2011
tina anne wrote:
Funny, but I think I might of mentioned a few of the points this person made. Like the fact that wind and solar had issues with the enviroment and that they cost far more than the power they produced.
The simple fact is that feeling guilty is the first luxury people get rid of when times are tight.
This one sounds like a "broken record". Just spouts the same old thing again and again.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#13 Oct 28, 2011
LessFactMoreHype, alias:
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow wrote:
Yes. One subject is AGW. Anthropogenic global warming. Anthropogenic because it is primarily man made.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
Can anyone spot the 'deliberate' mistake?
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#14 Oct 29, 2011
SAYER wrote:
<quoted text>This one sounds like a "broken record". Just spouts the same old thing again and again.
Actually, she seems to make it up as she goes along. Brian_G is the one that sounds like a broken record. And Earthling is the one with trivilities, nit picking and inanity.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#15 Oct 29, 2011
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
Actually, she seems to make it up as she goes along. Brian_G is the one that sounds like a broken record. And Earthling is the one with trivilities, nit picking and inanity.
So you consider all your ludicrous comments, "trivialities?"
Comments like, ice calving is restricted by size, that, "the equator doesn't have, "season," that cars can be charged with road collisions, that vikings didn't know how to live in a warmer Greenland, that, "Deforestations is a consequence of AGW," that Alberta is a country, that, "insects and plants" don't qualify as species, that, "Scientific laws" aren't science, that predictions are just for astrologers, that ethanol is a very workable and effective solution, that America has two political parties, that, climate and weather are not 'linked', that 'fruiting plants' are especially chosen by bees for, "polination?"
That we acted on CFCs in the 70s, that CO2 causes, "thermal pollution?
Are they, "trivialities," Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty?

NB: There are more where they come from.
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#16 Oct 29, 2011
QUITTNER wrote:
11:13 am, Friday, October 28, 2011:
RE: The Great Green Energy Crack-Up
..... Practical considerations usually trump idealized political suggestions. But using the sizes of the slowly receding glaziers, and rising ocean levels, as some kind of "thermometer" something will be done eventually about global warming trends, for example.
..... DC electricity from variable wind energy should be used to charge batteries for reliable continued usage. Then that DC electricity from the batteries at low voltage could be used as is, for example for lighting, and also converters to AC electricity could push energy from those batteries into the grid - but it may only be practical when grid electricity prices are high enough.
Actually, if in an area of hydro power, it is most economical to vary the power that the hydro produces to substitute wind power and store up the water in the reserve as 'deferred power' This produces the cheapest cost for 'storage'. Pumped storage can be 80% efficient so it is probably the second best storage over power where elevations and geography allow.

i.e. http://tinyurl.com/3hq5hxr

The lake can be pumped out during times of low cost power (such as at night) and returned at a slight premium during times of high power costs. Overnight power can be as low as 2 cents while peak power can supplied at less than three cents instead of the 11 cent peak power pricing.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#17 Oct 30, 2011
With his, "receding glaziers," it wouldn't surprise me if LessFactMoreHype, alias, NobodyYouEverWantToKnow is also QUITTNER, Toronto, Canada.

I'll make enquiries 'aboot' receding glaziers in Canada.
Bernard Forand

Seattle, WA

#18 Oct 30, 2011
QUITTNER wrote:
11:13 am, Friday, October 28, 2011:
RE: The Great Green Energy Crack-Up
..... Practical considerations usually trump idealized political suggestions. But using the sizes of the slowly receding glaziers, and rising ocean levels, as some kind of "thermometer" something will be done eventually about global warming trends, for example.
..... DC electricity from variable wind energy should be used to charge batteries for reliable continued usage. Then that DC electricity from the batteries at low voltage could be used as is, for example for lighting, and also converters to AC electricity could push energy from those batteries into the grid - but it may only be practical when grid electricity prices are high enough.
Excellent compressed definition of solar benefits. Have but one small thought on these micro inverters. Observe thermal lost in its conversion of D.C. to A.C. 60 cycles. Speculate that by converting household to D.C. would increase efficiencies of system. Direct to capacitors storage and direct to mechanical conversion less the inversion process. Example. This one is obvious; EV vehicle storage capacities. Second; Further evolution of appliances and power tools could carry their individual storage systems as well reducing deep cell internal household grid requirements.
Consider as well, that need to grid carries some benefits at present. One could advance that process by having internal community grids. Neighbor to neighbor eliminating a vast portion of power line infrastructures. Thus lost of friction to power lines thermal loss and plants mechanical conversions and transferring mechanism.
Bernard Forand

Seattle, WA

#19 Oct 30, 2011
tina anne wrote:
wind and solar had issues with the enviroment and that they cost far more than the power they produced.
Dearest Tina; As it is with all new infrastructures growth of companies there will be losers and winners. Research can help identify the more valued probabilities. Example back a year or two ago realized that China had cornered the solar panel industry. Both in production as well as to Silicone acquisition. This would suppress all solar panel markets in the USA. Couple that, with low support for a solid solar panel market for consumers and funding were less than Chinaís aggressive pursuits to funding of their solar panel industries; results in a depreciating value to USA solar panel distributions. Presently we are still laggards as China is expending $55 Billion on this issue as we are investing $34 Billion.
Now the way around it. Nano! GE produced a system of ďRoll to RollĒ process for ink injection. Nanosolar infused this process that can mass produce Solar Panels without silicone or vacuum processes. Efficiency of these panels are now at 17.5%. Production as rapidly as a newspaper printing press. GE is breaking ground for Solar Panel production Jan. 2012 for sales by Dec. 2012. Nanosolar is already in production. Between the two they can produce over 500 of MGW production per year of solar panels. Consider 2010 total solar production in the USA was 750 MGW. This but the beginning. Now how to bet.
As for Nano. Field is expanding rapidly some you can bet on [Wall Street] Others such as Nanosolar Inc. you cannot as they will not go public as of yet. However, that said I placed a bet on Nano last year and presently, Iím 100% in the money gained. Still growing!
Recon version of electricity to mechanical, such as the Leaf which has 4 to 8 times greater efficiency recon version and distribution, to fossil fuel conversion to energy distribution systems. Consider lost energies, to logistics distributions power lines and conversions through capacitors for home use. We can obtain a greater efficiency with a more direct source of energy to distributions. Conversions can be further reduced by operating on a D.C. application. Storage capacitors; you vehicles, as well as the standard deep cycle battery systems.
Keep in mind, purchasing of solar panels or some other alternative green energy source is initially paid by what you are presently paying for your utilities and fuel for the vehicle or vehicles. That efficiency gain alone pays for the systems and healthy chuck left over for your vehicle payments. Keep in mind once loans paid it is your money to keep less upgrades and fuel cost. Presently on grid scenarios, you never will be paid off as it is with your fossil fuel limited source for energy to propel your vehicles.
A more efficient system of solar panel is on its way as well as the parabolic trough solar panels that are presently employed by various utility companies. Two more are presently, breaking ground, that will produce 500 MGW each providing electricity to over 55,000 homes. More on the drawing boards. Almost forgot they easily reach Temperatures of 2,000 degrees as the energy is stored in molten salt capacitors for even distributions betwixt night and day time.
With that in mind it becomes self evident on how and where to place your bets for the future. Fail to recognize that, then do not bet. Short time, perhaps some oily profits be had, as the new age of energy accelerates to its saturation point of investments. Oily are presently increasing in cost of acquisitions as supplies become increasingly difficult to acquire. Their peak has passed. Iím not a short term investor as much as Iím long on the macro perspectives. Some short for obvious bets but mostly long. Keep in mind the random probabilities of short movements may be offset with counter bet and refrain from speculation as much as possible. Now place your bet. Iím betting my green on the Green.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#20 Nov 2, 2011
Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
Dearest Tina; As it is with all new infrastructures growth of companies there will be losers and winners. Research can help identify the more valued probabilities. Example back a year or two ago realized that China had cornered the solar panel industry. Both in production as well as to Silicone acquisition. This would suppress all solar panel markets in the USA. Couple that, with low support for a solid solar panel market for consumers and funding were less than Chinaís aggressive pursuits to funding of their solar panel industries; results in a depreciating value to USA solar panel distributions. Presently we are still laggards as China is expending $55 Billion on this issue as we are investing $34 Billion.
As for Nano. Field is expanding rapidly some you can bet on [Wall Street] Others such as Nanosolar Inc. you cannot as they will not go public as of yet. However, that said I placed a bet on Nano last year and presently, Iím 100% in the money gained. Still growing!
Recon version of electricity to mechanical, such as the Leaf which has 4 to 8 times greater efficiency recon version and distribution, to fossil fuel conversion to energy distribution systems. Consider lost energies, to logistics distributions power lines and conversions through capacitors for home use. We can obtain a greater efficiency with a more direct source of energy to distributions. Conversions can be further reduced by operating on a D.C. application. Storage capacitors; you vehicles, as well as the standard deep cycle battery systems.
Now place your bet. Iím betting my green on the Green.
Please keep in mind his post was longer but Topix forced me to trim it. Which was a shame.

And betting on green is a great way to loose green. As P.T. Barnum once quipped, "There a sucker born every minute." The real issue which your post ignored was the simple fact that solar is still at the mercy of the weather. Even more so than wind. It matters not how effiecnt the panel is if it is dark out. Current and near term future storage tech is such that it cannot provide to way to bridge the gap with solar. Maybe with the invention of a practical room temp superconductor then it might have a chance.
Yes China is producing solar panels. They also were producing many other goods with lead and other dangerous things for sale to western markets. If there are people willing to buy pet roks again, china would rubble a couple of mountains and put it in little boxes and sell it as well.
The Leaf will end up like every other EV before it. The problem with them is that energy storage tech has yet to develop to the point where it can make the energy storage system an d EV would need. Not to say in time it will not because it will. They will also need a steady source of power to charge them as well.
Any green energy will have to be able to function no matter what the weather. Even more so if your dream of an practical EV is ever reached. After all brownouts and blackouts can take the process of charging your car and render it unreachable An inch of snow will not shut down a coal fired power plant but render solar power useless until the panels are cleared. Or one of the many dust storms like those experienced in Saudi Arabia or now the American Midwest can drop power when it is most needed. The calm before the storm can leave those dependant on wind dark and cold while a nuclear power plant and continue to run. Not to mention what a freezing rain an do to both. Ice on a panel or turbine blades could leave those who used that for heating and light in a deadly situation. Any green energy must be able to function during the worse and not just on the nice days.
alex

Morocco, IN

#21 Nov 3, 2011
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Please keep in mind his post was longer but Topix forced me to trim it. Which was a shame.
And betting on green is a great way to loose green. As P.T. Barnum once quipped, "There a sucker born every minute." The real issue which your post ignored was the simple fact that solar is still at the mercy of the weather. Even more so than wind. It matters not how effiecnt the panel is if it is dark out. Current and near term future storage tech is such that it cannot provide to way to bridge the gap with solar. Maybe with the invention of a practical room temp superconductor then it might have a chance.
Yes China is producing solar panels. They also were producing many other goods with lead and other dangerous things for sale to western markets. If there are people willing to buy pet roks again, china would rubble a couple of mountains and put it in little boxes and sell it as well.
The Leaf will end up like every other EV before it. The problem with them is that energy storage tech has yet to develop to the point where it can make the energy storage system an d EV would need. Not to say in time it will not because it will. They will also need a steady source of power to charge them as well.
Any green energy will have to be able to function no matter what the weather. Even more so if your dream of an practical EV is ever reached. After all brownouts and blackouts can take the process of charging your car and render it unreachable An inch of snow will not shut down a coal fired power plant but render solar power useless until the panels are cleared. Or one of the many dust storms like those experienced in Saudi Arabia or now the American Midwest can drop power when it is most needed. The calm before the storm can leave those dependant on wind dark and cold while a nuclear power plant and continue to run. Not to mention what a freezing rain an do to both. Ice on a panel or turbine blades could leave those who used that for heating and light in a deadly situation. Any green energy must be able to function during the worse and not just on the nice days.
You just keep thinking that way and live in your little world and let the adults run things honey......

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