Mayor Alvin Brown's position on human...

Mayor Alvin Brown's position on human rights ordinance could be tricky

There are 94 comments on the The Florida Times-Union story from May 21, 2012, titled Mayor Alvin Brown's position on human rights ordinance could be tricky. In it, The Florida Times-Union reports that:

The expansion of Jacksonville's human rights ordinance slated to be discussed at tonight's City Council meeting has an unusual coalition of support, including both liberal Democrats and members of the business community.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Florida Times-Union.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#22 May 25, 2012
equalityboy81

Orange Park, FL

#23 May 25, 2012
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>
Find biased action distastful ... eh?
So you DO see the issue . What a surprise! Affirmative action allows an inferior performing female or Negro to be hired/promoted or admitted to med-school ahead of a superior performing white male.
But, you oppose such bias ... eh and reject affirmative action! Welcome to the club.
You people want to claim like you are against all class protections and all hate crime laws. You are against sexual orientation and gender identity being covered but I don't see any of you, not one of you, calling to repeal all hate crime and non-discrimination laws that cover race, gender, disability, and especially RELIGION. It's only when laws are inclusive of gays and/or trans that you people start screaming about bias against the majority. Sexual orientation is homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual. Everyone has a sexual orientation and gender identity. It covers everyone including straight and non-transgender people. It just happens that straights and non-trans people don't face as much discrimination being in the majority but that doesn't make them any less protected than gays, bi people, and trans. It is equal and it covers everyone. It's not discrimination! If I fired you because you are a Christian or because you are straight you'd most definitely sue me but you feel like you should have the right to be able to not hire me, fire me, not rent to me, refuse me a room or service at a restaurant or business simply because I'm gay or perceived to be gay. This ordinance and federal ENDA law would protect straights too. What if someone fired you because they thought you were gay because of a rumor started about you when you are indeed completely heterosexual? I'm sure it has happened. They have the legal right to fire you without protection in the law. Straight people can become victims of homophobia and heterosexism too.
equalityboy81

Orange Park, FL

#24 May 25, 2012
This bill would also protect those who are straight, non-transgender, or straight and non-trans but perceived to be gay and/or trans.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#25 May 25, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
This bill would also protect those who are straight, non-transgender, or straight and non-trans but perceived to be gay and/or trans.
Do you mean EVERYONE?

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#26 May 26, 2012
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Do you mean EVERYONE?
Yes the bill would protect everyone but some straights seem to think it only protects gays/lesbians/bi people/trans and not them too. Every law that we have in this country that protects LGBT also protects straights but every law that protects straights does not necessarily protect the LGBT community. The straight people always get to have their cake and eat it too. Also marriage equality would make it to where everyone could marry the person they love regardless of gender.
noshellswill

Jacksonville, FL

#27 May 26, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>
You people want to claim like you are against all class protections and all hate crime laws. You are against sexual orientation and gender identity being covered but I don't see any of you, not one of you, calling to repeal all hate crime and non-discrimination laws that cover race, gender, disability, and especially RELIGION.

<clip>
Indeed I reject both the **concept** and **politics** of hate-crimes. For everything and for everyone. Is my view clear enough?

How can an emotional state modify overt criminal behavior? Can a thought itself be a crime? A criminal **behavior** is punished ... the reason/motivation/excuse for the criminal behavior makes no difference, and empowers gross "over-reaching" by the Gub'mnt.

The concept and legality of **hate-crime** is a prime example of cosmopolitan Stalinist legalist influence ... un-American, very anti-republican and anti-liberty in mind set -- and along with its supporters power ought to be destroyed root & branch.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#28 May 26, 2012
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed I reject both the **concept** and **politics** of hate-crimes. For everything and for everyone. Is my view clear enough?
How can an emotional state modify overt criminal behavior? Can a thought itself be a crime? A criminal **behavior** is punished ... the reason/motivation/excuse for the criminal behavior makes no difference, and empowers gross "over-reaching" by the Gub'mnt.
The concept and legality of **hate-crime** is a prime example of cosmopolitan Stalinist legalist influence ... un-American, very anti-republican and anti-liberty in mind set -- and along with its supporters power ought to be destroyed root & branch.
So conservative Republicans are the only good people in this nation?

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#29 May 26, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>
So according to your logic if Jacksonville is not homophobic then they probably aren't against Christians or blacks either. What would you say about taking gender, RELIGION, and race off the protections? What would you do if someone fired you for being a Christian or because you are a man? Would you report them and sue them based on religious discrimination or would you just let it happen and work for another employer who accepted you as a Christian.
If 90 percent of the people are for protecting gays why would it hurt to have a law that protects them, bi people, and straight people along with gender, religion, and race? It seems to me like this bothers you a bit.
The government and state are the ones that give benefits to married couples. They have to be involved. Are you willing to give up them being involved in your heterosexual marriage even if they said to you it might recognized in your eyes and your church's eyes but that they won't give you and your spouse any legal recognition.
It is easy for you to say all this stuff you said when you are not the minority being discriminated against because it doesn't affect your life but it seems to bother you that they made soon have protections from discrimination. Jacksonville is discriminatory towards gays and that is why we need this law. The nation needs a law like that and the federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act.
If someone fired me for being a Christian, which is most likely a very rare occurrence, I would find myself another job. If they are going to fire me for something like that than they would probably fire me for something else at a later date. Why would I choose to work for someone so ignorant?

You bring up a great point, which I mentioned before, is why the government is involved in the marriage relationship. It seems benefits is the most important part of it; but even this is in contrast to your idea of a world with a lack of discrimination. We allow the government to discriminate against single people because the government offers tax exemptions to those who are married or who have kids. Why is this discrimination allowed? Why do you support it? Shouldn't they just treat everyone the same?

The government has a responsibility to lead by example. If it chooses to discriminate than so will we as a people. Until the government stops doing so, then anyone, regardless of race, creed, etc. can justify any type of discrimination.

The fact that you think I was never discriminated against is depressing. Please, please, think outside the box. As noshell says, EVERYONE is discriminated against. Just for different reasons.

Also, before anyone claims discrimination, we need to think, honestly, about what other reasons we could have been fired for. I have recently read over 30 cases in the 11th Circuit about this topic and in 99% of the cases the worker is fired for other reasons (i.e. lazy, breaking policy, stealing, tardiness, etc.).

I just don't see the point of these laws; it simply seems a way to get a handful of people rich, who are often minorities. Why is this more important than the government setting an example by not discriminating against those who are in the majority?

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#30 May 26, 2012
noshellswill wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed I reject both the **concept** and **politics** of hate-crimes. For everything and for everyone. Is my view clear enough?
How can an emotional state modify overt criminal behavior? Can a thought itself be a crime? A criminal **behavior** is punished ... the reason/motivation/excuse for the criminal behavior makes no difference, and empowers gross "over-reaching" by the Gub'mnt.
The concept and legality of **hate-crime** is a prime example of cosmopolitan Stalinist legalist influence ... un-American, very anti-republican and anti-liberty in mind set -- and along with its supporters power ought to be destroyed root & branch.
Agreed!

Excellent post.

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#31 May 26, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes the bill would protect everyone but some straights seem to think it only protects gays/lesbians/bi people/trans and not them too. Every law that we have in this country that protects LGBT also protects straights but every law that protects straights does not necessarily protect the LGBT community. The straight people always get to have their cake and eat it too. Also marriage equality would make it to where everyone could marry the person they love regardless of gender.
Do you have the actual text of the bill?

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#32 May 26, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>
So conservative Republicans are the only good people in this nation?
How do you get that from his post. You would be more credible if you actually read people's posts.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#33 May 26, 2012
thamanjimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone fired me for being a Christian, which is most likely a very rare occurrence, I would find myself another job. If they are going to fire me for something like that than they would probably fire me for something else at a later date. Why would I choose to work for someone so ignorant?
You bring up a great point, which I mentioned before, is why the government is involved in the marriage relationship. It seems benefits is the most important part of it; but even this is in contrast to your idea of a world with a lack of discrimination. We allow the government to discriminate against single people because the government offers tax exemptions to those who are married or who have kids. Why is this discrimination allowed? Why do you support it? Shouldn't they just treat everyone the same?
The government has a responsibility to lead by example. If it chooses to discriminate than so will we as a people. Until the government stops doing so, then anyone, regardless of race, creed, etc. can justify any type of discrimination.
The fact that you think I was never discriminated against is depressing. Please, please, think outside the box. As noshell says, EVERYONE is discriminated against. Just for different reasons.
Also, before anyone claims discrimination, we need to think, honestly, about what other reasons we could have been fired for. I have recently read over 30 cases in the 11th Circuit about this topic and in 99% of the cases the worker is fired for other reasons (i.e. lazy, breaking policy, stealing, tardiness, etc.).
I just don't see the point of these laws; it simply seems a way to get a handful of people rich, who are often minorities. Why is this more important than the government setting an example by not discriminating against those who are in the majority?
Your premise is all wrong..just because it has never happened to you or you do not know of it happening...then we don't need this law...REALLY? Well it does happen and plenty. Why? BECAUSE THERE IS NOT LAW TO PROHIBIT IT FROM HAPPENING!

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#34 May 26, 2012
thamanjimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have the actual text of the bill?
Everything you need to know here and on the wbsite.

https://www.facebook.com/jaxequality

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#35 May 26, 2012
thamanjimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have the actual text of the bill?
No I don't but I know it includes sexual orientation and sexual orientation includes homosexuality, bisexuality, and heterosexuality. All three orientations would be protected, not just gays. Bills like this will continue to pass around this nation whether you agree with them or not.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#36 May 26, 2012
thamanjimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you get that from his post. You would be more credible if you actually read people's posts.
He was talking about something being anti-republican. Everything is about Republicans with these people. They think conservative and Republican equal good and Democrat and liberal equal evil.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#37 May 26, 2012
thamanjimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed!
Excellent post.
That's one of his calmer posts and it's a bit shocking to me that there is such a calm post. You should read how crazy and ranting he gets in several of his past posts and saying gub'mnt this and gub'mnt that. I don't think he has ever written the word: government. And he is extremely anti-gay. You claim you aren't if I'm not mistaken but he certainly is. He doesn't think they deserve to ever be equal to heterosexuals in any way, shape, or form.

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#38 May 26, 2012
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Your premise is all wrong..just because it has never happened to you or you do not know of it happening...then we don't need this law...REALLY? Well it does happen and plenty. Why? BECAUSE THERE IS NOT LAW TO PROHIBIT IT FROM HAPPENING!
So there isn't any racial discrimination?

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#39 May 26, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>No I don't but I know it includes sexual orientation and sexual orientation includes homosexuality, bisexuality, and heterosexuality. All three orientations would be protected, not just gays. Bills like this will continue to pass around this nation whether you agree with them or not.
I agree they will pass because both parties support big government

“How Do You Avoid Apathy? ”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#40 May 26, 2012
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>He was talking about something being anti-republican. Everything is about Republicans with these people. They think conservative and Republican equal good and Democrat and liberal equal evil.
I agree and it is unfortunate

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#41 May 26, 2012
thamanjimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
If someone fired me for being a Christian, which is most likely a very rare occurrence, I would find myself another job. If they are going to fire me for something like that than they would probably fire me for something else at a later date. Why would I choose to work for someone so ignorant?
You bring up a great point, which I mentioned before, is why the government is involved in the marriage relationship. It seems benefits is the most important part of it; but even this is in contrast to your idea of a world with a lack of discrimination. We allow the government to discriminate against single people because the government offers tax exemptions to those who are married or who have kids. Why is this discrimination allowed? Why do you support it? Shouldn't they just treat everyone the same?
The government has a responsibility to lead by example. If it chooses to discriminate than so will we as a people. Until the government stops doing so, then anyone, regardless of race, creed, etc. can justify any type of discrimination.
The fact that you think I was never discriminated against is depressing. Please, please, think outside the box. As noshell says, EVERYONE is discriminated against. Just for different reasons.
Also, before anyone claims discrimination, we need to think, honestly, about what other reasons we could have been fired for. I have recently read over 30 cases in the 11th Circuit about this topic and in 99% of the cases the worker is fired for other reasons (i.e. lazy, breaking policy, stealing, tardiness, etc.).
I just don't see the point of these laws; it simply seems a way to get a handful of people rich, who are often minorities. Why is this more important than the government setting an example by not discriminating against those who are in the majority?
In many cases when an employer fires a minority they dislike because they are that minority it is usually for a "different reason" especially when that minority IS protected such as being black or Muslim. They come up with a reason to fire someone they don't like. You can be an excellent employee and the boss can make trouble for you if they want you gone.

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