Antarctic Ice Shelf Collapse Possibly Triggered by Ocean Waves, Scripps-led Study Finds

Feb 13, 2010 | Posted by: The Truth Matters | Full story: scrippsnews.ucsd.edu

Depicting a cause-and-effect scenario that spans thousands of miles, a scientist at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego and his collaborators discovered that ocean waves originating along the Pacific coasts of North and South America impact Antarctic ice shelves and could play a role in their catastrophic collapse.

Peter Bromirski of Scripps Oceanography is the lead scientist in a new study published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters that describes how storms over the North Pacific Ocean may be transferring enough wave energy to destabilize Antarctic ice shelves.

According to Bromirski, storm-driven ocean swells travel across the Pacific Ocean and break along the coastlines of North and South America, where they are transformed into very long-period ocean waves called "infragravity waves" that travel vast distances to Antarctica. The study found that each of the Wilkins Ice Shelf breakup events in 2008 coincided with the estimated arrival of infragravity waves.

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Fun Facts

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#1
Feb 14, 2010
 

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More info on possibilities we did not recognize before.

This is science, the more we look the more we discover. Remember the PDO, pacific decadal occillation, something we now know has a big impact on climate, was totally unknown in 1977 when it switched to it's most recent positive phase. In 1977 when scientist noticed the shift, they called it "The Great Pacific Climate Shift". The PDO wasn't even given a name until the early 90s.

Theories like continental drift and the milankovich cycles were not codified until the 20th century. Both have major impacts on climate, but we knew nothing of them.

The sun has cycles that we are just now beginning to understand.

How many other functions of our earth's systems remain undiscovered? How many of those impact climate? How many impact the chemical composition of our atmosphere? Too many questions remain unanswered.

Making public policy on the very little we know is foolish at best.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

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#2
Feb 14, 2010
 

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Nothing to say it's not warming as well.
"(Infragravity waves) may produce ice-shelf fractures that enable abrupt disintegration of ice shelves that are also affected by strong surface melting," the authors note in the paper.
Fun Facts

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#3
Feb 14, 2010
 

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I have never contested the idea that the last 30 years produced a warmer climate than the prior 30 years.

My position is that what we are seeing in climate is a natural process that has been happening for a very long time. Nothing new and not man made.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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How old was the ice shelf?
Mr Giblets

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Fair Game wrote:
How old was the ice shelf?
so you want to think it melted. So go ahead! as Galileo said, "it still moves, anyway". You can't deny facts.
LessHypeMoreFact

Orangeville, Canada

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Mr Giblets wrote:
<quoted text> so you want to think it melted.
His point was that it had been STABLE. You try red herrings.
Mr Giblets wrote:
<quoted text>
So go ahead! as Galileo said, "it still moves, anyway". You can't deny facts.
Yes. And the ice shelves are breaking up from surface meltwater wedging apart ice cracks ( a new mechanism that creates the possibility of much more rapid ice loss than the previous 'melting' model).

That darn reality. It keeps going and going despite your heated denials and misrepresentations.
Mr Giblets

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
His point was that it had been STABLE. You try red herrings.
<quoted text>
Yes. And the ice shelves are breaking up from surface meltwater wedging apart ice cracks ( a new mechanism that creates the possibility of much more rapid ice loss than the previous 'melting' model).
That darn reality. It keeps going and going despite your heated denials and misrepresentations.
so what? Haiti was "stable" until the earthquake. Why ignore any new evidence and research? You people are like the Inquisition was. You refuse to look through the telescope, in case you see a heresy.
Pokay1kaduB

North East, PA

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Fun Facts wrote:
I have never contested the idea that the last 30 years produced a warmer climate than the prior 30 years.
My position is that what we are seeing in climate is a natural process that has been happening for a very long time. Nothing new and not man made.
That's fine but there is no evidence for this that stands up to scientific scrutiny. At no time during the Holocene was it ever warmer than what, another degree max in addition to what we have now? If the "scam" was going on for so many years you would think they would have published fabricated studies that the Holocene has seen a climate like ten degrees warmer. The RATE of warming seems to be something new.
Mr Giblets

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Pokay1kaduB wrote:
<quoted text>That's fine but there is no evidence for this that stands up to scientific scrutiny. At no time during the Holocene was it ever warmer than what, another degree max in addition to what we have now? If the "scam" was going on for so many years you would think they would have published fabricated studies that the Holocene has seen a climate like ten degrees warmer. The RATE of warming seems to be something new.
still doesn't prove it's our fault. I wish you would all shut up and work out how to adapt to this climate change, IF it is happening - like building sea walls IF the sea is rising.
Pokay1kaduB

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Mr Giblets wrote:
<quoted text>still doesn't prove it's our fault. I wish you would all shut up and work out how to adapt to this climate change, IF it is happening - like building sea walls IF the sea is rising.
First you imply it is happening just that we can't be sure it's not our fault, then you wonder if it is happening at all. Hmmk. They ARE building walls and rebuilding/reengineering irrigation and sewer systems in many cities/areas. I guess these places are fooled into thinking increased and more drastic flooding could become more common. I don't know about you but I have noticed that in my area alone, not a flood prone zone, during the last decade we have had a "hundred year flood" quite a few times in ONE decade. That means what usually happens once in a hundred years happened multiple times in one decade.
dont drink the koolaid

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Pokay1kaduB wrote:
<quoted text> I don't know about you but I have noticed that in my area alone, not a flood prone zone, during the last decade we have had a "hundred year flood" quite a few times in ONE decade. That means what usually happens once in a hundred years happened multiple times in one decade.
AGW or put up a parking lot?

Joni M. suggests that the floods are due to paving over the wetlands. That would cause the runoff to flood the surrounding suburban sprawl.
Be Informed

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Feb 14, 2010
 

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Fun Facts wrote:
More info on possibilities we did not recognize before.
This is science, the more we look the more we discover. Remember the PDO, pacific decadal occillation, something we now know has a big impact on climate, was totally unknown in 1977 when it switched to it's most recent positive phase. In 1977 when scientist noticed the shift, they called it "The Great Pacific Climate Shift". The PDO wasn't even given a name until the early 90s.
Theories like continental drift and the milankovich cycles were not codified until the 20th century. Both have major impacts on climate, but we knew nothing of them.
The sun has cycles that we are just now beginning to understand.
How many other functions of our earth's systems remain undiscovered? How many of those impact climate? How many impact the chemical composition of our atmosphere? Too many questions remain unanswered.
Making public policy on the very little we know is foolish at best.
Great job! I am officially plagerizing your 'facts'.
Fun Facts

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Feb 15, 2010
 

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Be Informed wrote:
<quoted text>
Great job! I am officially plagerizing your 'facts'.
Plagerize away!!! The more people know, the less they believe.
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Feb 15, 2010
 

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Pokay1kaduB wrote:
<quoted text>That's fine but there is no evidence for this that stands up to scientific scrutiny. At no time during the Holocene was it ever warmer than what, another degree max in addition to what we have now? If the "scam" was going on for so many years you would think they would have published fabricated studies that the Holocene has seen a climate like ten degrees warmer. The RATE of warming seems to be something new.
There are times when you are just plain wrong. This is one of them.

The warmest time during the Holocene Optimum was the thermal max, 9000 years ago.

The most accumulated glaciation since the end of the Younger Dryas, 11,000 years ago, was during the LIA, Little Ice Age, about 200 years ago.

The rate of temp change is not unusual or unprecendented. In fact looks pretty much like previous rates of change.

Since: Aug 08

Granite Falls, WA

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Feb 15, 2010
 

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Fair Game wrote:
How old was the ice shelf?
The recently collapsed Wilkens Ice Shelf was estimated 10,000 years old.
The recently collapsed Ward Hunt Ice Shelf was estimated 4500 years old.
The recently collapsed Larsen B Ice Shelf was estimated 12.000 years old.
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Feb 15, 2010
 

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"But the Wilkins Ice Shelf is a different breed in the way it forms, explains Dr. Vaughan.

Although it's been stable for as long as scientists have been able to reach the continent and study it, the shelf scientists see crumbling today appears to have formed either between the Roman era and the Medieval Warm Period or with the onset of the Little Ice Age. Indeed, he adds, "it's kind of a come-and-go ice shelf" compared with the other vanishing shelves, which have been stable far longer."
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/...

I guess the science isn't 'settled' on this either.
Mr Giblets

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Feb 15, 2010
 

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Pokay1kaduB wrote:
<quoted text>First you imply it is happening just that we can't be sure it's not our fault, then you wonder if it is happening at all. Hmmk. They ARE building walls and rebuilding/reengineering irrigation and sewer systems in many cities/areas. I guess these places are fooled into thinking increased and more drastic flooding could become more common. I don't know about you but I have noticed that in my area alone, not a flood prone zone, during the last decade we have had a "hundred year flood" quite a few times in ONE decade. That means what usually happens once in a hundred years happened multiple times in one decade.
but the SAME experts told our government that we would have droughts inland - so they neglected the flood defences. NOW they are re-building them, as YOUR predictions were so wrong. For example , one of your professors, at the University of East Anglia, said that we would have NO MORE SNOW in the UK. He is one of your consensus. but I said there is NO flooding from the sea due to levels rising - and please don't confuse this with tidal and storm erosion, which is NOT THE SAME.
LessHypeMoreFact

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Feb 21, 2010
 

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Mr Giblets wrote:
<quoted text>so what? Haiti was "stable" until the earthquake.
Total crap. The earthquakes are regular features, NOT stable. And the equivalent would be for Haiti to disappear into the ocean, not just have a simple, common and predictable earthquake that it gets every few decades or so.
litesong

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Nov 22, 2012
 

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Blast from the Past, showing toxic topix AGW denial at a high level.
//////////
\\\\\\\\\\
Fair Game wrote:
How old was the ice shelf?
//////////
litesong wrote:
The recently collapsed Wilkens Ice Shelf was estimated 10,000 years old.
The recently collapsed Ward Hunt Ice Shelf was estimated 4500 years old.
The recently collapsed Larsen B Ice Shelf was estimated 12.000 years old.
//////////
'fun farts' wrote:
"But the Wilkins Ice Shelf is a different breed in the way it forms, explains Dr. Vaughan.
//////////
PHD

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Nov 23, 2012
 

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Another day forecast to be cold and dry and it's wet and warm. Could it be another climate change. Must be global warming no it's global cooling.We need more experts they all seem to be in error again.

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