Unintended benefit of smoking bans

Unintended benefit of smoking bans

There are 93 comments on the www.thestar.com story from Jul 13, 2008, titled Unintended benefit of smoking bans. In it, www.thestar.com reports that:

Regulations banning smoking in restaurants were designed to protect the health of nonsmokers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.thestar.com.

“12oz libertarian”

Since: Dec 07

chi-town 'Inner City'

#61 Jul 14, 2008
KHartman wrote:
People are complicated. I have friends that are vegetarians for reasons of health, and yet occasionally smoke.(They ARE the exception to the rule!)
The only doctor that i spend any time with socially is an occasional smoker too.

Honestly the whole 80% non is really not truthful. Include pipe and social cigar smokers (theres a lot of those), social smokers, etc. All of the sudden is it surprising that ballot initiative bans can't crack 60%?

Yes, people are complicated........isn't it
wonderful.

“Hello”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#62 Jul 14, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
People are complicated. I have friends that are vegetarians for reasons of health, and yet occasionally smoke.(They ARE the exception to the rule!)
Well k,i know this is offsubject but it just irritates me to no end.My father suffered a stroke 3 years ago on my birthday.No surprise:he still smokes.And whenever he does,he falls and cuts himself,because the carbon monoxide in cig smoke robs your body of oxygen.He also has high blood pressure and his chest literally rattles.My brother hacks from 30 years of smoking and have lost relatives one to heart disease and another to lung cancer.Both were heavy smokers.But they all think this wont happen to them.The ones that complains the most might be the ones that develop smoking related diseases.My moms brother suffered and had regretted not quitting when the doctors told him to.But according to these fanatical smokers on here,the doctors are wrong.You know K,when my dad smokes and than stumbles and i have to catch him,i think about these smokers and shake my head.I'm his legal guardian.If only he had never started smoking......Because of this,i just dont have any sympathy for them.Because of what those damn things have done to our family.

“Hello”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#63 Jul 14, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, this is a interesting case of science in action. The original presumption was that any level of alcohol was bad for you. Repeated studies have demonstrated that moderate drinkers actually live longer than those that don't drink at all. Scientific opinion changed as a result.
Unfortunately, that finding doesn't extend to tobacco. Moderate smokers die before never smokers.(And heavy smokers die sooner than moderate smokers.)
I know.2 heavy smokers in my family had their lives cut short.One had a mild stroke,artery in his neck was clogged with plaque that had to be cleaned out(,another uncle had this done to him about 6 months ago)and finally heart disease took him a month ago at only 61.He smoked so much it literally came out of the pores of his skin.The other died at 56 from lung cancer that spread to his brain,before that he had triple bypass surgery.But he didn't give his "friend" up,cigarettes.A surviving uncle on my dads side keeps saying he'll quit.Yeah right,every time he smokes he hacks like crazy.After all this,just dont see the benefit to being a smoker,lol.

“KISS THIS SMOKERS BUTT”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#64 Jul 14, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, this is a interesting case of science in action. The original presumption was that any level of alcohol was bad for you. Repeated studies have demonstrated that moderate drinkers actually live longer than those that don't drink at all. Scientific opinion changed as a result.
Unfortunately, that finding doesn't extend to tobacco. Moderate smokers die before never smokers.(And heavy smokers die sooner than moderate smokers.)
and smokers out live nonsmokers, don't be so dishonest

“KISS THIS SMOKERS BUTT”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#65 Jul 14, 2008
sandy63 wrote:
<quoted text>I know.2 heavy smokers in my family had their lives cut short.
I have non smokers in my family whose lives were cut short
KHartman

Cincinnati, OH

#66 Jul 14, 2008
BleuJei wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose I am living proof of your final two sentences, Sandy. I met a man and told him from the beginning that I smoked. He was FINE with it; UNTIL; we got serious and then he began to humiliate and belittle me. He finally succeeded in badgering me into quitting. Only, by that time his true self emerged and I discovered he was a certifiable socopathic pervert ;-). My not smoking lasted two years while he continued his usual sick behavior. I started smoking again, ended the marriage (better late than never) and I and my two girls are happy and stable.
I will never change for another person again.
Dear Bleu,

I'm very sorry that your marriage didn't work out. But I have a bit of sympathy for your husband. You are a pretty and charming woman (that comes through even here on the mean streets of Topix!) He was probably very drawn to those qualities, and thought you'd be PERFECT if he could just change that one little thing...

You couldn't quit for him, and it just led to resentment and hurt. It's best that you eventually parted ways, painful though it was.

But now, without his pressure, consider quitting smoking again --- but this time for YOU (and those two sweet girls.)

Hang in there, kiddo! As Frank says "the best is yet to come!":

&fe ature=related

(Please ignore that cigarette he's smoking...)

;-)

“KISS THIS SMOKERS BUTT”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#67 Jul 14, 2008
plaque in the neck is from cholesterol and fatty foods, ask any doctor, no plaque is one of the benefits of low cholesterol

“Hello”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#68 Jul 14, 2008
u cannot own me wrote:
plaque in the neck is from cholesterol and fatty foods, ask any doctor, no plaque is one of the benefits of low cholesterol
One of the risks factors of Atherosclerosis is smoking among others.I had 2 relatives who both smoked who had a buildup to plaque in their arteries.My uncles cartoid artery was 80% bloced when they did a Cartoid Endarectomy,and he dont have high cholestrol,he smokes.This is just one of the many risks that smoking does to your health.The other uncle who had a Cartoid Endarectomy died last month from heart disease.

“Hello”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#69 Jul 14, 2008
u cannot own me wrote:
plaque in the neck is from cholesterol and fatty foods, ask any doctor, no plaque is one of the benefits of low cholesterol
I also had a friend who smoked so much the plaque buildup in her artery in her right leg became 100% blocked.They had to remove the artery and she had to quit smoking cold turkey.They cut her from her groin to her foot.And this woman loooooved smoking!I know obviously you haven't had any adverse health problems to smoking,but a lot have.It was hard seeing her leg like that.It really humbled her,seeing what her smoking had done to her.It all started when her leg started tingling,and the rest was history.This and many other reasons are why multitudes of people dont smoke.
KHartman

Cincinnati, OH

#70 Jul 14, 2008
PicassoIII wrote:
<quoted text>The only doctor that i spend any time with socially is an occasional smoker too.
Honestly the whole 80% non is really not truthful. Include pipe and social cigar smokers (theres a lot of those), social smokers, etc. All of the sudden is it surprising that ballot initiative bans can't crack 60%?
Yes, people are complicated........isn't it
wonderful.
But it's easy to be deceived by our personal experience. Smokers tend to generally hang out with other smokers, and that tends to skew their perceptions.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57...

The percentage of high school students that ever tried smoking (meaning a puff or two) continues to decline. In 1999 it was 70% of students. In 2007 it dropped to 50%! Half of high school students won't even take a puff or two.

In 1999, 34% were current smokers at the time of the survey. In 2007, only 20% were.

Most smokers start in high school.
KHartman

Cincinnati, OH

#71 Jul 14, 2008
u cannot own me wrote:
<quoted text>
and smokers out live nonsmokers, don't be so dishonest
C'mon, Linda --- do you really believe that? What if we just followed a group of young men, smokers and nonsmokers, for 50 years and compared how many were still alive at the end every 10 years? That seems to be a pretty reasonable test, doesn't it?

http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/be...

"A 50-year study of nearly 35,000 British doctors who smoke cigarettes has found that those who smoke their entire adult lives will die, on average, 10 years before those who never smoke of who stop smoking by age 30.

The study, which began tracking the doctors in 1951, is the first to quantity what scientists have long known--that cigarette smoking is deadly and becomes more so the longer someone smokes. At age 70, 88 percent of nonsmokers in the study were still alive, but only 71 percent of smokers. At age 80, 65 percent of nonsmokers were alive, but only 32 percent of smokers."

Smokers AS A GROUP tend to die before nonsmokers AS A GROUP. Most smokers I know believe that (though many hope that they'll be the exception to the rule.)

“12oz libertarian”

Since: Dec 07

chi-town 'Inner City'

#72 Jul 14, 2008
KHartman wrote:
But it's easy to be deceived by our personal experience. Smokers tend to generally hang out with other smokers, and that tends to skew their perceptions.
Oh i totally understand that, 20% as regular cigarette smokers is reasonable, but.....
I was watching a wedding show on cable (ok she was watching) and i guess cigar rollers are a hit for the couple that need everything. At last years block party lots of non cigarette smokers whipped out cigars later in the evening. Oh, and some of the ladies bummed cigs.
Then you of course have reporting bias, c'mon, it's far less PC to admit it these days. If people lie for insurance reasons.
OTOH i'm not saying that's the whole difference between vote tallies and the GOVERNMENTAL statistics. In fact it helps my argument the more non smokers vote against bans. It's somewhere in between.

“12oz libertarian”

Since: Dec 07

chi-town 'Inner City'

#73 Jul 14, 2008
KHartman wrote:
Smokers AS A GROUP tend to die before nonsmokers AS A GROUP.
With dose dependancy of course. What was average habit for these, 2pack/day?
No exception expected, just pushing the confounders.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#74 Jul 15, 2008
sandy63 wrote:
<quoted text>Great post.I would never be with a smoker at all.For a lot of people i know it's a turnoff.A lot of people i know also wont date someone who's a smoker.I knew someone who met a girl on a blind date,and she didn't tell him she was a smoker.He didn't smoke and cares for his health.When he found out she was a smoker,he didn't want to see her again.This was about 3 months ago.
Hmm....I thought antis had these radar noses....
hmm......he couldn't SMELL her from 100 ft. away.
Not ON HER CLOTHES, IN HER HAIR, ON HER BREATH......

Wow......antis must not be the radar noses they want all to believe.

Obviously. The police could just dispense with the dog squads if so and would have already.
Hire ya'll to sniff luggage at the airport, etc...

Maybe you antis are just full of.....

.........snot..........

(a couple of letters can be exchanged in there....or not....both will work)

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#75 Jul 15, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
People are complicated. I have friends that are vegetarians for reasons of health, and yet occasionally smoke.(They ARE the exception to the rule!)
Maybe.
Macrobiotic people I know don't have hangups concerning smoking.

I also have known some pretty fat vegetarians. Never quite got that. Then again constant starchy replacements for some good old rare fat dripping rib steak might not be "all that", either.

“~ Reality IS Perception ~”

Since: Aug 07

Rockaway!

#76 Jul 15, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Bleu,
I'm very sorry that your marriage didn't work out. But I have a bit of sympathy for your husband. You are a pretty and charming woman (that comes through even here on the mean streets of Topix!) He was probably very drawn to those qualities, and thought you'd be PERFECT if he could just change that one little thing...
You couldn't quit for him, and it just led to resentment and hurt. It's best that you eventually parted ways, painful though it was.
But now, without his pressure, consider quitting smoking again --- but this time for YOU (and those two sweet girls.)
Hang in there, kiddo! As Frank says "the best is yet to come!":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =QqdGGuPNP-EXX&feature=rel ated
(Please ignore that cigarette he's smoking...)
;-)
Good morning K,

Please don't have sympathy for a "defective" man, OK? As I said, I DID quit; for two years, and may have remained smoke-free (how can one know for sure?) if HE took that "gift" and truly appreciated it. He knew I was a smoker and "lied" to me (and himself) by saying he was able to accept it.

He was a control freak and wanted nothing more than to make me comply to his wishes. My smoking was one thing, but he posed a threat to my well-being and to my children because of his disorder.

Please try to see past MY weakness and realize that his was a much more severe threat to people: he is a sociopath with no empathy and a self-serving agenda. What he was drawn to was my passiveness and vulnerability, nothing more.

I do thank you for your caring words, K. Yes, without his or anyone else's pressure I could (and am contemplating) plan my strategy for weening off again. When I quit I did it cold turkey, and that may be the absolute best way; but, I'll know when the time is right and I'll not miss that train ;-) I quit for the wrong reasons and the wrong person before, but I also started up again for all the wrong reasons and to spite the person.......my bad ;-)

Thank you, K. When the time comes for me and we are all still here, I'll keep everyone apprised and hope that this forum can double as a support group.

Have a wonderful day, OK?

Arms around

^i^

“~ Reality IS Perception ~”

Since: Aug 07

Rockaway!

#77 Jul 15, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Bleu,
I'm very sorry that your marriage didn't work out. But I have a bit of sympathy for your husband. You are a pretty and charming woman (that comes through even here on the mean streets of Topix!) He was probably very drawn to those qualities, and thought you'd be PERFECT if he could just change that one little thing...
You couldn't quit for him, and it just led to resentment and hurt. It's best that you eventually parted ways, painful though it was.
But now, without his pressure, consider quitting smoking again --- but this time for YOU (and those two sweet girls.)
Hang in there, kiddo! As Frank says "the best is yet to come!":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =QqdGGuPNP-EXX&feature=rel ated
(Please ignore that cigarette he's smoking...)
;-)
Heheheh...I forgot to thank you for sending Frank my way ;-). What cigarette?(wink)

Thank you!

“KISS THIS SMOKERS BUTT”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#78 Jul 15, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
C'mon, Linda --- do you really believe that?
why don't you give your big %'s of non smokers who have died at an age younger (before) my age of soon to be 65? Are you claiming that non smokers have not and do not die at a age younger than 65? Are you claiming that it never happened and never happened often?

Thats what propaganda is all about, target one side and hope nobody thinks or mentions the alternative and or true facts.

Give us you real #'s not fabricated stats to cloud the real issue which is have nonsmokers ever or do nonsmokers ever die at a younger age than a smoker and feel free to use my age of 65?

“KISS THIS SMOKERS BUTT”

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#79 Jul 15, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
But it's easy to be deceived by our personal experience. Smokers tend to generally hang out with other smokers, and that tends to skew their perceptions.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57...
The percentage of high school students that ever tried smoking (meaning a puff or two) continues to decline. In 1999 it was 70% of students. In 2007 it dropped to 50%! Half of high school students won't even take a puff or two.
In 1999, 34% were current smokers at the time of the survey. In 2007, only 20% were.
Most smokers start in high school.
I thought people out grow fairy tales but I guess you prove me wrong. Once upon a time.......

“Just Say No to Smoking Bans”

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#80 Jul 15, 2008
KHartman wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Bleu,
I'm very sorry that your marriage didn't work out. But I have a bit of sympathy for your husband. You are a pretty and charming woman (that comes through even here on the mean streets of Topix!) He was probably very drawn to those qualities, and thought you'd be PERFECT if he could just change that one little thing...
You couldn't quit for him, and it just led to resentment and hurt. It's best that you eventually parted ways, painful though it was.
But now, without his pressure, consider quitting smoking again --- but this time for YOU (and those two sweet girls.)
Hang in there, kiddo! As Frank says "the best is yet to come!":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =QqdGGuPNP-EXX&feature=rel ated
(Please ignore that cigarette he's smoking...)
;-)
Very nice sentiments, K...except for one glaring omission. Bleu's ex-husband was a pervert. She left him, not because she decided to take up smoking again, but because he was a PERVERT. Otherwise, VERY NICE words.

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