Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili ...

Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili dies at Madigan

There are 20 comments on the KOMO News story from Jul 23, 2011, titled Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili dies at Madigan. In it, KOMO News reports that:

Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili, the first foreign-born chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who counseled President Bill Clinton on the use of troops in Bosnia and other trouble spots, has died, the Army said in a statement.

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Since: May 08

Location hidden

#1 Jul 23, 2011
So he is in this Topix because?
Gay?
Lesbian?
Trans?
bisexual?

offered up the DADT program?

Why?
Boris

United States

#2 Jul 23, 2011
What, did he die of AIDS or something?
yep

United States

#3 Jul 23, 2011
Boris wrote:
What, did he die of AIDS or something?
He died while your mother was blowing him.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#4 Jul 23, 2011
pauline 2 wrote:
So he is in this Topix because?
Gay?
Lesbian?
Trans?
bisexual?
offered up the DADT program?
Why?
Reading the article might help.

From the article:

"Shalikashvili was head of the Joint Chiefs when the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military was adopted. He had argued that allowing homosexuals to serve openly would hurt troop morale and undermine the cohesion of combat units. Years later, though, he said that he changed his mind on the issue after meeting with gay servicemen.

"These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers," Shalikashvili wrote in a January 2007 New York Times opinion piece."

Since: Dec 08

Seminole, FL

#5 Jul 23, 2011
Thanks for this Jerald.

I'm no longer amazed by how many people don't even bother to read the articles posted. Recently one of our own most vociferate posters openly admitted he doesn't read most of the articles he posts about. That, to me, is something that is intellectually dishonest to say the least. The moment he made that statement was the same moment he lost any of my respect for his multitude of opinions. I didn't tell him as much but have noticed that he's posted much less in recent weeks and that's a good thing.

Not that we shouldn't feel free to comment on what is being said by other posters but to comment on an article without having read it or have real knowledge of the topic at hand is lame at best.

Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading the article might help.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#6 Jul 23, 2011
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading the article might help.
From the article:
"Shalikashvili was head of the Joint Chiefs when the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military was adopted. He had argued that allowing homosexuals to serve openly would hurt troop morale and undermine the cohesion of combat units. Years later, though, he said that he changed his mind on the issue after meeting with gay servicemen.
"These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers," Shalikashvili wrote in a January 2007 New York Times opinion piece."
Did, didn't see that part, did get very bored about Clinton.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Parksley, VA

#7 Jul 23, 2011
TomInElPaso wrote:
Recently one of our own most vociferate posters openly admitted he doesn't read most of the articles he posts about. That, to me, is something that is intellectually dishonest to say the least.
Vociferous.

The internetz are a big place. Lots to read.

It's nice this guy eventually changed his mind, but he and Sam Nunn and Colin Powell caused a fair amount of psychological harm with their defaming opinions at the time. You expected bigotry from honorary slave holders like Helms and Thurmond, but....

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#8 Jul 23, 2011
I too wondered why this came up on the gay forum, but I'm glad I read the article. The General deserves to be remembered for all the good things he did and accomplished.

I just wish Congress and the White House would take his advice about:
FTA: "
In a farewell interview with The Associated Press in 1997, Shalikashvili said American military and civilian authorities need to cooperate more when they decide to get involved in such trouble spots, because so much of what the military is asked to do involves humanitarian or peacekeeping operations.

For example, he said, the military might need assistance from the Justice Department to help set up police forces, or advice from the State Department on economic aid.

"We know the agencies, but who is responsible for coordinating it, bringing it all in at the right time?" he said. "Haiti, Bosnia, Rwanda, even Somalia, showed us these things go forward from the first day, and there is no coordinator."

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#9 Jul 23, 2011
"Shalikashvili is survived by his wife Joan, their son, Brant, and other family members."

To his wife, son and other family, I thank you for his and YOUR service to our Country. My thoughts and prayers are with you during this most difficult time.
God bless all of You.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Parksley, VA

#10 Jul 23, 2011
Did the article mention his father served in the Wehrmacht in WWII, or whatever it was?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#11 Jul 24, 2011
Rest in peace, General. Thank you for your service.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#12 Jul 24, 2011
writewingproxycontin wrote:
Did the article mention his father served in the Wehrmacht in WWII, or whatever it was?
If he did, so what? Why does that matter?

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#13 Jul 24, 2011
The late General is proof that some, albeit few, people who are prejudiced against LGBT folks can be educated.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#14 Jul 24, 2011
writewingproxycontin wrote:
Did the article mention his father served in the Wehrmacht in WWII, or whatever it was?
Actually reading the article would tell you "no."

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#15 Jul 24, 2011
writewingproxycontin wrote:
Did the article mention his father served in the Wehrmacht in WWII, or whatever it was?
Why, are we inflicting suffering upon the children for the sins of the fathers? Who doesn't have some skeletons in their closet?
Obvious

Ocala, FL

#16 Jul 24, 2011
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why, are we inflicting suffering upon the children for the sins of the fathers? Who doesn't have some skeletons in their closet?
Because it is important for people to cast blame!

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Silver Spring, MD

#17 Jul 24, 2011
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually reading the article would tell you "no."
Not unless you thought the article contained every known fact about this guy and his family.

Smarten up.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Silver Spring, MD

#18 Jul 24, 2011
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why, are we inflicting suffering upon the children for the sins of the fathers? Who doesn't have some skeletons in their closet?
Because you are uninformed, and I am fixing that in this instance. Or trying to.

You should go back and read the "New York Times Magazine" article on the deceased around the time of DADT Don't Pursue's adoption.

You would see the same sort of denial from the deceased about his father - he would never have been _that_ kind of Nazi - as about gay and lesbian service members - perhaps they are in the services but _I_ never knowingly served with any of them.

I invite you to educate yourself.

More simply: It's not only the sins of the father. It is the sins of the son. This guy waited for decades to at last figure out the error of his unnecessary bigotry. Same for Sam Nunn. Neither the father nor the son is "innocent" here.

Do you have some problem with the importance historical memory?

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#19 Jul 24, 2011
writewingproxycontin wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you are uninformed, and I am fixing that in this instance. Or trying to.
You should go back and read the "New York Times Magazine" article on the deceased around the time of DADT Don't Pursue's adoption.
You would see the same sort of denial from the deceased about his father - he would never have been _that_ kind of Nazi - as about gay and lesbian service members - perhaps they are in the services but _I_ never knowingly served with any of them.
I invite you to educate yourself.
More simply: It's not only the sins of the father. It is the sins of the son. This guy waited for decades to at last figure out the error of his unnecessary bigotry. Same for Sam Nunn. Neither the father nor the son is "innocent" here.
Do you have some problem with the importance historical memory?
no not really. I just get annoyed with your obstinate need to make trouble and ignore the fact the man DID change his mind AND spoke up about it.

Would you have preferred he remained opposed to us and our lives with each other?

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#20 Jul 25, 2011
writewingproxycontin wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you are uninformed, and I am fixing that in this instance. Or trying to.
You should go back and read the "New York Times Magazine" article on the deceased around the time of DADT Don't Pursue's adoption.
You would see the same sort of denial from the deceased about his father - he would never have been _that_ kind of Nazi - as about gay and lesbian service members - perhaps they are in the services but _I_ never knowingly served with any of them.
I invite you to educate yourself.
More simply: It's not only the sins of the father. It is the sins of the son. This guy waited for decades to at last figure out the error of his unnecessary bigotry. Same for Sam Nunn. Neither the father nor the son is "innocent" here.
Do you have some problem with the importance historical memory?
His father was his father. The son was the son. They both have their own transgressions to answer for. Seperately. And yes, I do know the imiportance of historical memory. I have traced my family back to their German roots to 1350. That does not, however, require me to answer for any misdeeds they may have done.

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