LDS have big image problem

LDS have big image problem

There are 194 comments on the Deseret Morning News story from Nov 23, 2008, titled LDS have big image problem. In it, Deseret Morning News reports that:

Gary Lawrence is a card-carrying, tithe-paying, churchgoing Mormon who had long suspected that the public perception of his church in America wasn't exactly up there with, say, baseball and apple pie.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Deseret Morning News.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#176 Jan 30, 2009
Neutral one said "This web page is so disrespectful, GpaSmurf!! It didn't spell out Mountain Meadows Massacre in the domain name! How could you spread such filth around, let alone believe anything this site had to say???? "

Well, you got me on that one, I guess not everyone feels the way I do about it. I still don't like to see this tragedy minimized any more than any other. I will no longer call it to your attention when you do it. I can't say I'm sure that you mean no disrespect but I will try to focus on the positive and know that whatever you believe, in your heart of hearts you mean well as do us all.
I do wish you mormons would worry less about your image and face what needs to be dealt with and focus on God's truth. LOVE needs no image , it's warmth and kindness speak for themselves.
taskboy

Scottsdale, AZ

#177 Jan 30, 2009
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to be a bit unbiased and go search for the journal entries of Mormons in that area who in writing in their journals daily were writing of what was transpiring between them and certain members of the wagon train prior to the massacre.
The people in the wagon train did not need to die and never should have died. But I do agree with the many unbiased historians that are understanding now in the reading of the records and journals of the Mormons that show the the high state of stress and anxiety that the minds of the Mormon men were in, certain actions from men in this wagon train, how ever minor or severe the actions and teasings were, they were the proverbial catalyst for (the straw that broke the camel's back) of the men in Cedar City.
I have done my research and I am unbiased IMO. I have not read Massacre at MM but will soon. Is that unbiased enough for you?

I am aware of what people were saying about the Fancher party (they poisoned a spring/indians etc., they claimed to have killed Joseph Smith, they were Missouri wildcats....) Much of these recollections were recorded after the fact and I question the motivation of those who made the accusations. That's the tough thing about MMM is that most of what we know about it came from the perpetrators— not the most unbiased source Anyway much of the current study has shown many of these accusations to be pretty flimsy.

While I think the strained interactions between the Mormons and the wagon train are the reasons people cite for the violence, I think it went much deeper. They would have to be for these men to follow through and carry out a planned, prolonged assault on a group that was virtually no threat. They had already moved beyond the LDS settlements. Why follow them?

I am curious. Have you read Brooks book or the new "church approved " book?

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#178 Jan 30, 2009
Neutral one said "You are grasping at straws, and the more desperate you get, the less credible you become. "

read that one back to yourself, neutral one, the sad fact is until your church changes it's views on lying to gentiles, nothing any of you say has any credibility. You attack people of integrity over minor details in order to destroy their repututations, you threaten politicans that defy you or stand in your way, your arrogance and meaness as a church are legendary! If you want to correct your image problem you are going to have to start being honest, and even then it will take a long time for people to trust you. There is just to much well documented information by good people like this one who you insulted. This man updated his first edition to correct for an error. Why would he bother if he were lying?
there it is

Prairie Du Chien, WI

#179 Jan 30, 2009
grandpa-the LDS are grasping at straws=read this:
Quote from my aunt:
..but as I told a neighbor woman who wanted me to become one "what would you do if you woke up and there was no Mormon church,,"oh, that won't happen" "well what if it did? what would you have?" I guess I'd have nothing" "well, if all the religions we gone, I'd still have everything because I'd still have my relationship with God thru Jesus Christ!"

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#180 Jan 31, 2009
It's 2:30 am as I sit here writing this. I woke up from a deep sleep and the answer is perfectly clear. The Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred over 150 years ago it's true, but the God responsible for this horror is still very much alive in the imaginations of the followers of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of the men who set themselves up above the true God of LOVE and created a false god of vengeance and wrath. A god that catered to the baser desires of men, A god who promised sex, money and power to those deemed worthy by the prophets. A god who required blood atonement in direct disagreement with the teachings of Jesus, who pointed at the real God of LOVE. A god worshiped with ceremony and in secret by an elite who seeks to protect this god with lies to the gentiles. To protect the greater truth say the prophets. The True God OF LOVE does not need lies to protect him! Jesus warned of false prophets. This whole Mountain Meadows Massacre and blood atonement connection that the Mormon Church is trying to hide so desperately is very real evidence of this. The mentality that produced the Mountain Meadows Massacre is very much alive today in the Mormon Church and it's offshoots! These teachings are a true danger to the spiritual well being of the whole planet. Their false teachings lead to needless suffering by those whose spirit is crushed by believing in this false information. Their lies and confusion are obvious with an extensive search of all of the information available on the subject. To those who would say PROVE IT, and I'm sure they will! I say , the proof is there. It's all over the internet.Law libraries, the Library of Congress, Museums, memoirs of private citizens, court records,congressio nal records,military records,public libraries...! Read it and then draw your own conclusion! The truth about the matter is totally obvious when you look at the whole picture of this group of people. The very fact that the rest of us are called the gentiles says a lot about these arrogant and false teachings! The only reason the Mormons are attempting to hide the truth about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and it's connection to the dangerous blood atonement doctrine is to protect the false set of prophets that their whole church depends on. This and their desire to establish a theocracy with their Current Prophet in charge (they call it a theodemocracy) makes them a danger to be recognized! With their large numbers of followers this could be a reality if something is not done about the apathy of the majority, which is their most powerful asset. All of us need to get informed and get involved!

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#181 Jan 31, 2009
THis will be my last post on the matter of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I think I have covered everything that is humanly possible. I trust those with a sincere desire for truth will re-read my previous posts, do their research and check out this very serious matter for themselves! I will repost the last two posts to various internet forums and blogs on occassion as I feel it is needed. here is a particularly moving description of the Mountain Meadows by a man who visited the scene in 1910: from http://www.utlm.or g/onlinebooks/mead ows3.htm “The once carpet of grass has vanished, and in its place is a dense growth of mountain sage. The spring that supplied the Fancher company with water now oozes up from a bog near the bottom of the gully. And all around the landscape is an indescribable desolation - a vista of gray sage and barren hills. Seemingly, the God of Justice has visited the locality with the withering blight of his displeasure - but Mormonism yet lives, aggressive, arrogant and defiant. As the occasional visitor, with bared head, stands by the desert grave, his imagination recalls the death march up the valley. Through the silence of more than fifty years is heard the echoes of exploding firearms. The shrieks of women and children mingle with the frenzied cries of fiends incarnate, then the death like silence returns. He seems to feel the touch of spirit hands, to hear the murmur of spirit voices pleading for remembrance of their wrongs, and for human justice for the false and criminal leaders of the system whose doctrines and example inspired their destruction, and who continue to traduce their victims as their only defense of the ruthless murder of those who surrendered under the sacred aegis of the flag of peace!

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#182 Jan 31, 2009
this post should precede the other one

It's 2:30 am as I sit here writing this. I woke up from a deep sleep and the answer is perfectly clear. The Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred over 150 years ago it's true, but the God responsible for this horror is still very much alive in the imaginations of the followers of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the rest of the men who set themselves up above the true God of LOVE and created a false god of vengeance and wrath. A god that catered to the baser desires of men, A god who promised sex, money and power to those deemed worthy by the prophets. A god who required blood atonement in direct disagreement with the teachings of Jesus, who pointed at the real God of LOVE. A god worshiped with ceremony and in secret by an elite who seeks to protect this god with lies to the gentiles. To protect the greater truth say the prophets. The True God OF LOVE does not need lies to protect him! Jesus warned of false prophets. This whole Mountain Meadows Massacre and blood atonement connection that the Mormon Church is trying to hide so desperately is very real evidence of this. The mentality that produced the Mountain Meadows Massacre is very much alive today in the Mormon Church and it's offshoots! These teachings are a true danger to the spiritual well being of the whole planet. Their false teachings lead to needless suffering by those whose spirit is crushed by believing in this false information. Their lies and confusion are obvious with an extensive search of all of the information available on the subject. To those who would say PROVE IT, and I'm sure they will! I say , the proof is there. It's all over the internet.Law libraries, the Library of Congress, Museums, memoirs of private citizens, court records,congressio nal records,military records,public libraries...! Read it and then draw your own conclusion! The truth about the matter is totally obvious when you look at the whole picture of this group of people. The very fact that the rest of us are called the gentiles says a lot about these arrogant and false teachings! The only reason the Mormons are attempting to hide the truth about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and it's connection to the dangerous blood atonement doctrine is to protect the false set of prophets that their whole church depends on. This and their desire to establish a theocracy with their Current Prophet in charge (they call it a theodemocracy) makes them a danger to be recognized! With their large numbers of followers this could be a reality if something is not done about the apathy of the majority, which is their most powerful asset. All of us need to get informed and get involved!

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#183 Jan 31, 2009
taskboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I have done my research and I am unbiased IMO. I have not read Massacre at MM but will soon. Is that unbiased enough for you?
I am aware of what people were saying about the Fancher party (they poisoned a spring/indians etc., they claimed to have killed Joseph Smith, they were Missouri wildcats....) Much of these recollections were recorded after the fact and I question the motivation of those who made the accusations. That's the tough thing about MMM is that most of what we know about it came from the perpetrators— not the most unbiased source Anyway much of the current study has shown many of these accusations to be pretty flimsy.
While I think the strained interactions between the Mormons and the wagon train are the reasons people cite for the violence, I think it went much deeper. They would have to be for these men to follow through and carry out a planned, prolonged assault on a group that was virtually no threat. They had already moved beyond the LDS settlements. Why follow them?
I am curious. Have you read Brooks book or the new "church approved " book?
Below is a link you might find interesting in what these three LDS authors had access to whereby they wrote what they did of the MMM incident. They took a decade to write their book.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#184 Jan 31, 2009
just the facts

Prairie Du Chien, WI

#185 Jan 31, 2009
Nikki

Spanish Fork, UT

#186 Feb 12, 2009
Thanks, Cheryl! Exactly! Some folks wouldn't be happy no matter where they lived. Gripe, gripe,gripe. You know, there are boats leaving daily if you jerks would like trying out life in a foreign country!!!!
123CandS

Kailua Kona, HI

#187 Feb 20, 2009
Duce Big-low wrote:
<quoted text>
You say that you're "not anti-Mormon" -- Shall I laugh you to scorn? You loosely speak of "love" but act like the devil -- You vile HATE monger!
~~~ once again "anti-Mormonism" is not always "anti-Mormon" as you seem to insist on making it out to be. you are doing a great dis-service to other "Mormons" who do not share your view.

~~~ SEE: "Comparison between Mormonism and Christianity - MormonWiki.org "
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Comparison_between_...
+
an interesting twist to all of this is found in:~~
John 8:59 "Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple." {see Deut. 13 for the use of stones for some offences}
http://bible.cc/john/8-58.htm and
http://bible.cc/john/8-59.htm
~ and ~
Deuteronomy 13:10 "So you shall stone him to death because he has...."
http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/13-10.htm

+
there it is

Kelseyville, CA

#188 Feb 24, 2009
A Mromon worth admiring:
http://www.standard.net/live/164932

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#189 Feb 25, 2009
There it is, thank you for sharing that heartwarming story! I really enjoined reading it!
starla chlarson

Snowflake, AZ

#190 May 7, 2009
The mormon church is a big help to many people i noticed that in my own life that it can help with what ever it may or may not !
Burt

Ogden, UT

#191 Feb 25, 2011
starla chlarson wrote:
The mormon church is a big help to many people i noticed that in my own life that it can help with what ever it may or may not !
Funny. It was on help/use to me. Since I left the church, it's been brighter/greener pastures for me.

Since: Aug 12

San Jose, CA

#192 Sep 3, 2012
Mormons have an image problem because even they do not know what they stand for. They hide their beliefs such as when a man dies he will be God of his own planet and populate that world, his wives will be perpetually pregnant, God lives on a star near the sun called Kolob, they wear magical undies, black people are dark because it is a curse from God etc...These people are wacko. I love it when some Mormon tries to tell me how great their religion is, and I know more than they do.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#193 Sep 10, 2012
starla chlarson wrote:
The mormon church is a big help to many people i noticed that in my own life that it can help with what ever it may or may not !
Tell me how much of a help it was to the poor Christian members of the Wagon train that traveled through Utah, and were massacred at Mountain Meadows?

And explain to me how much of a help it is to the descendents of these poor people who can not put a cross on the site of the massacre in memory of those slaughtered because the site is controlled by the Mormons?

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#194 Sep 10, 2012
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me how much of a help it was to the poor Christian members of the Wagon train that traveled through Utah, and were massacred at Mountain Meadows?
And explain to me how much of a help it is to the descendents of these poor people who can not put a cross on the site of the massacre in memory of those slaughtered because the site is controlled by the Mormons?
Hey grandpa, I see you are still stuck on the Mountain Meadow Massacre. I still have the same opinion as always. You know what that is. With that being said, even IF those events occurred as you believe they did , how does that make the rest of us bad? Mormons as a whole spend a great deal if time volunteering, helping others, teaching our children to be kind, respectful, upstanding citizens. Tell me how we aren't helpful. I would like to know.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#195 Sep 11, 2012
no hilljacks allowed wrote:
Mormons have an image problem because even they do not know what they stand for. They hide their beliefs such as when a man dies he will be God of his own planet and populate that world, his wives will be perpetually pregnant, God lives on a star near the sun called Kolob, they wear magical undies, black people are dark because it is a curse from God etc...These people are wacko. I love it when some Mormon tries to tell me how great their religion is, and I know more than they do.
Whacko eh? Then explain why black Christians believe God is black and by curse or whatever reason, humans lost their black colour and became other colours while certain humans maintained their original black colour. That when we all die we all go back to being black.
Explain why other ethnic colours believe the same thing?
Certain religious cultures like Muslim etc, they have beliefs as Christians did before America was even settled, that curses are why blacks became white and yellow and brown and those not cursed remained black.
You think Mormon underwear is funny/strange? It's a religious belief. Why don't you go tell a Muslim woman wearing a veil she's funny looking and strange? Why don't you tell a middle east Muslim that when they bow and pray with their butt sticking up is funny and gross. In another religion, men wear turbans. Why don't you go find some and tell them their funny looking wearing dipers on their head? Why don't you find some Samoans and tell them tattooing their face and body for religious purposes is like really stupid and totally wrong, tell them God doesn't read body art, he listens to prayers?
You know nothing but your own idiocy of thought and disrespect of what others value as sacred to them. You only show your immaturity when you take pot shots at a persons religious beliefs.

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