Goosing the Antithesis: ID Was Spanke...

Goosing the Antithesis: ID Was Spanked In Fort Worth

There are 35 comments on the goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com story from Nov 10, 2008, titled Goosing the Antithesis: ID Was Spanked In Fort Worth. In it, goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com reports that:

"The Great Debate," as it was billed, was sponsored by St. Andrew's Episcopal Church in Fort Worth, Texas. It featured a four-way roundtable format, with a participant from each quadrant of the atheist/theist and pro-ID/anti-ID axes. I was there along with some fellow members of the North Texas Church of Freethought primarily to see Dr. Lawrence Krauss (atheist/anti-ID) and also, somewhat guiltily, to see Dr. David Berlinski (theist/pro-ID) in action. The field was rounded out by Dr. Denis Alexander (theist/anti-ID) and Dr. Bradley Monton (atheist/pro-ID). The debate was held at the Will Rogers Memorial Auditorium, and I would estimate about 1000 people in attendance.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#1 Nov 10, 2008
Gotta love the drawing that accompanied the story.

and also the final statement: "All in all, a great night for science and rationalism, a poor night for anyone who was hoping to see intelligent design championed in Texas."
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#2 Nov 10, 2008
First science does not mean 'to find the truth'. it means 'knowledge'.

Now Scientific facts and truth are 2 completely diffrent things.

1. Truth is in harmony with all other truths in existance. Here is the ONLY way science can determine truths: Gain a complete understanding of every single one of the infinite factors in existance. And then use them to analyze your theory. This is the problem with science. Any scientific experiment intended to conclusively determine any real truth would require an infinite number of factors to be present, and human beings lack the abilty to gain a complete understanding. we can barely remember phone numbers until we have them memorized. and memorizing 1 thousand phone numbers in itself would be quite the accomplishment for any human being. So what good is science then if it can't determine any absolute truths? This is an interesting point lost of time. The "science" of evolution is not really even "science" at all. it is actually a field of scientific religion called 'metaphysics'. basically metaphysics means 'beyond physics' which not only excludes truth, it also excludes scientific facts. This is the category of science where the big bang and evolution come from.

evolution is a religion that promises one thing, "if you don't stop using it as an excuse to not believe in God, you will not be going to Heaven when you die!"

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#3 Nov 10, 2008
Cliff Harris wrote:
First science does not mean 'to find the truth'. it means 'knowledge'.
Now Scientific facts and truth are 2 completely diffrent things.
1. Truth is in harmony with all other truths in existance. Here is the ONLY way science can determine truths: Gain a complete understanding of every single one of the infinite factors in existance. And then use them to analyze your theory. This is the problem with science. Any scientific experiment intended to conclusively determine any real truth would require an infinite number of factors to be present, and human beings lack the abilty to gain a complete understanding. we can barely remember phone numbers until we have them memorized. and memorizing 1 thousand phone numbers in itself would be quite the accomplishment for any human being. So what good is science then if it can't determine any absolute truths? This is an interesting point lost of time. The "science" of evolution is not really even "science" at all. it is actually a field of scientific religion called 'metaphysics'. basically metaphysics means 'beyond physics' which not only excludes truth, it also excludes scientific facts. This is the category of science where the big bang and evolution come from.
evolution is a religion that promises one thing, "if you don't stop using it as an excuse to not believe in God, you will not be going to Heaven when you die!"
LOL, pretty poor characterization of science, and lots of twisting trying to make science something it's not. Luckily the real world doesn't operate that way.

In your world view we would be totally paralyzed until we understood every infinite permutation of anything before making a move. That is not how science works. We don't need, nor do we ever expect to "Gain a complete understanding of every single one of the infinite factors in " existence. We don't know it about Gravity, Light, the Atom, Electricity, Heat, Chemistry, Physics, Engineering .. nor any other scientific discipline. Yet we certainly do make do with what we do know.

You do as well, whether you want to admit it or not. The scientific discipline called Biology is responsible for many things. Most medicines and most of the food we eat. You ask what good is science if it cannot reach an absolute truth? Look around, you'll see many things based on science that is not perfect. Why do you bother putting gas in your car? Why does the floor of your house not collapse? Why do children share some, but not all, of the characteristics of their parents? Many, many things have been explained by science to the point of making accurate and usable predictions. And we all use them everyday.

Evolution does not address God, and many of the people who support Evolution, and understand Evolution are also believers in God. Just Google the "Clergy Letter Project" and you can read the words of nearly 12,000 Christian and Jewish Clergy. But be careful, you might learn something.
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#4 Nov 10, 2008
quit saying science and start saying natural philosophy please.

"The scientific discipline called Biology is responsible for many things. Most medicines and most of the food we eat. You ask what good is science"

First please learn the disciplines of natural philosophy before you run around pretending as though natural philosophy, modern biology, and natural science are the same thing. Please factor in the schools of metaphysics and probility and why origins of such school's inclusion wer included in to the realm of natural philosophy you have NO IDEA and you would forsake your soul and everyone else's you claim to love for a lie.
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#5 Nov 10, 2008
and yes evolution has deceived many, and you have no idea why, do you?
Chaz

UK

#6 Nov 10, 2008
Well, please feel free to draw the line for us mere mortals, exactly where "biology" ends and "natural philosophy" begins.

I'm willing to bet it starts somewhere in the area around the 'D' of "Darwin" and ends somewhere closed to the 'N'.
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#7 Nov 10, 2008
actually it had to do with 5,000 gold, a copley medal, and entrance to the royal society
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#8 Nov 10, 2008
ok look up natural philosophy in the encyclopedia nd read the page top to bottom and keep in mind even with the scientific method, scientific facts which used the scientific method to make them scientific facts are disproven on less then a 1 second basis accross the world
Chaz

UK

#9 Nov 10, 2008
Cliff Harris wrote:
actually it had to do with 5,000 gold, a copley medal, and entrance to the royal society
Go on then, persuade me.
The Dude

Watford, UK

#10 Nov 10, 2008
Cliff, please stop shitting all over the threads. We already have one for that:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T3J...
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#11 Nov 10, 2008
sounds like that meant something to you
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#12 Nov 10, 2008
like i said not sure it's time to make it public yet.
Chaz

UK

#13 Nov 10, 2008
Cliff Harris wrote:
like i said not sure it's time to make it public yet.
If you had found anything worthwhile you wouldn't be hiding it.

You're just another bag of hot air.
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#14 Nov 10, 2008
lol chaz you know i know what i'm talking about. are you a fellow?
The Dude

Watford, UK

#15 Nov 10, 2008
Cliff Harris wrote:
lol chaz you know i know what i'm talking about. are you a fellow?
See post #10.

That's the thread for preaching.

If you don't take advantage of my helpfulness, I'm just gonna assume your just another stupid holier-than-thou arrogant fundie who likes the sound of his own voice and only preaches not because he gives a flying f*ck about anyone else but because he thinks it'll get him brownie-points in the eyes of TEH LORD!
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#16 Nov 10, 2008
i pasted it it in the other topic
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#17 Nov 10, 2008
they tried using Plato's "Platonism" to explain away the absolutes of math

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#18 Nov 11, 2008
Cliff Harris wrote:
quit saying science and start saying natural philosophy please.
"The scientific discipline called Biology is responsible for many things. Most medicines and most of the food we eat. You ask what good is science"
First please learn the disciplines of natural philosophy before you run around pretending as though natural philosophy, modern biology, and natural science are the same thing. Please factor in the schools of metaphysics and probility and why origins of such school's inclusion wer included in to the realm of natural philosophy you have NO IDEA and you would forsake your soul and everyone else's you claim to love for a lie.
Gee I did look it up, and guess what the very first paragraph said:

"Natural philosophy or the philosophy of nature (from Latin philosophia naturalis), is a term applied to the objective study of nature and the physical universe that was dominant before the development of modern science. It is considered to be the precursor of natural sciences such as physics."

So you are seriously stuck in the 19th century, aren't you? Here let me highlight the important part "dominant before the development of modern science".

Need more, how about this one:

"The term "science", as in "natural science", gained the meaning of science in the modern sense when knowledge acquisition through experiments (special experiences) regulated by the scientific method became its own specialized branch of study over and above natural philosophy."

Do a little more research and study up on the history of science and you will clearly see the change from natural philosophy to modern science pretty clearly. Oh, and by the way, it doesn't involve the soul, just methodology.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#19 Nov 11, 2008
Cliff Harris wrote:
they tried using Plato's "Platonism" to explain away the absolutes of math
LMAO! It was Plato and his followers that tried to CLAIM that math is absolute!
Cliff Harris

Haines City, FL

#20 Nov 11, 2008
TedHOhio
You missed the top of that url which said,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosop...

Natural philosophy

This article or section includes a list of references or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations.
You can improve this article by introducing more precise citations where appropriate.(December 2007)

Where is the concrete support for your reference?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Rice University Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News La Madeleine closes Rice Village store to make ... Mar '17 RicePhartss 1
News Best-selling author gets trolled at high school... Feb '17 PushPhartsx 1
News Obama Dozed - People Froze AKA Obama's Katrina (Feb '09) Feb '17 Jaydon 2,068
News The history of Houston's Rice Hotel Feb '17 UserPhart 2
News How to get comfortable with diversity Jan '17 Einstein Nukes 5
News Study dubs Houston a global 'knowledge capital' (Sep '16) Oct '16 Go Blue Forever 2
News Report: It's Getting More Expensive to Rent or ... (Oct '15) Mar '16 Fert farts 7
More from around the web