Guest column: The case for academic freedom on evolution and in science class

Nov 29, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Journal and Courier

You can safely bet on this. If, as seems likely, a bill is proposed in the Indiana legislature next year that would allow public school students to hear both sides of the evolution debate, critics will distort the content of the law and the reasoning behind it.

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1 - 7 of 7 Comments Last updated Dec 1, 2012
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#1
Nov 30, 2012
 
Josh Youngkin wrote:
If, as seems likely, a bill is proposed in the Indiana legislature next year that would allow public school students to hear both sides of the evolution debate
What debate? A scientific one? Doesn't exist. There hasn't been a debate over the validity of evolution at the very least since the discovery of DNA. No, the "debate" played out in the public sector at the moment by you and your fellow DI yokels is a political one, and nothing to do with science. Never has been.
Josh Youngkin wrote:
critics will distort the content of the law and the reasoning behind it.
Translation: "Our past actions and statements will be brought up and we'll pretend we're not walking around with our pants down."
Josh Youngkin wrote:
You’ll hear that Discovery Institute, the education policy think tank where I’m a staff attorney
So you work for liars for Jesus. Gotcha.
Josh Youngkin wrote:
and its local allies seek to introduce “creationism” and “religion” in the science classroom.
Yup. And we heard it from you:
Phil Johnson wrote:
Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the issue of intelligent design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools.
http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.h...
Josh Youngkin wrote:
Discovery and innovation, in scientific and other fields, depend on academic freedom.
And you have it. No-one is stopping you from doing ID "research". You even have your own labs. However the academic freedom to promote religious apologetics to kids in public school science classes stops at the First Amendment. Now, if you HAD a scientific alternative to teach then you would have a case. But in 2004 Paul Nelson said:
Josh Youngkin wrote:
We don't have … a theory right now, and that's a problem.
It's now nearly 2013. And you STILL have that problem. Ergo given the evidence it is NOT unreasonable to reject anti-evolution apologetics in the guise of IDC to be "taught" to kids in schools who don't yet know science from socks. Unless of course you have come up with a "scientific theory" of IDC in the meantime? In which case I would very much like to hear what it is, as I've been asking that question for 8 years but have only ever been disappointed. The scientific community have been asking for decades. Or 3,000 years, depending on how you look at it.

No, didn't think so.
Josh Youngkin wrote:
The need for critical thinking and discernment in science, however, does not begin at the university level. At the latest it begins when students are first exposed to scientific controversies, in high school biology class. That is why Discovery Institute recommends to reform-minded school districts and lawmakers an academic freedom policy for responsible, limited use in the high school setting.
Exactly, the DI wishes to remove critical thinking and redefine it with GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC.
Josh Youngkin wrote:
So if a Tennessee teacher teaches biblical creationism in science class, Tennessee’s law would provide no shelter against a legal challenge. That’s why laws based on Discovery Institute’s model bill have generated no successful legal challenge, nor will they.
They're already unconstitutional, and could potentially cost local school boards millions of bucks. As unfortunately for you all your anti-science arguments have their roots in creationism. Well done.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

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#2
Nov 30, 2012
 
You just HAD to go and read this crap didn't you Dude.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#3
Nov 30, 2012
 
Sorry, I was getting bored of the regular fundies on the other threads.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

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#4
Nov 30, 2012
 

Judged:

1

The Dude wrote:
Sorry, I was getting bored of the regular fundies on the other threads.
Understood. Is Nature peer-reviewed or not?

{MikeF ducks}

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#5
Nov 30, 2012
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Understood. Is Nature peer-reviewed or not?
{MikeF ducks}
So, where's this "junk DNA?" :P

“Maccullochella macquariensis”

Since: May 08

Melbourne, Australia

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#6
Dec 1, 2012
 
At the risk of committing the logical error of the excluded middle, it seems to me that these people must fall into one of two categories: either they are barefaced liars, or they are so stupid that they do not realise the idiocy of their statements. I vacillate between the two positions and cannot make up my mind which it is...
Lepor

Santa Rosa Beach, FL

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#7
Dec 1, 2012
 
Both sides???
So there is only 2 sides to how we got here on Earth?
the Bible version and the scientific explanation?
What about the Buddist beliefs on creation? Why should we leave out the Great Spirit of the Native Americans? What do we know about the Hopi Myths on creation?
Should we teach history using Greek mythology as fact?

"Teaher. How was the city of Rome founded?"
Well Billy, Two brothers were raised by a shewolf. Romulous and Remus. They built the city.

"Why did the Titanic sink?" Because Posieden was angered by men who built a ship and called it unsinkable.

How did all people come from Adam and Eve? They are brother and sister? Gross!
Why don't snakes talk anymore?
Will I go to hell for eating an apple?
Why did God hate Eve for eating an apple?

None of this bullshit belongs in a science class.

Evolution is science that is in the foundation of much of earth's biology.

Like it or not we are simply a fluke of the universe. We have no right to be here.

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