Evangelicals and the Gay Moral Revolu...

Evangelicals and the Gay Moral Revolution

There are 39 comments on the online.wsj.com story from Jul 1, 2011, titled Evangelicals and the Gay Moral Revolution. In it, online.wsj.com reports that:

The Christian church has faced no shortage of challenges in its 2,000-year history. But now it's facing a challenge that is shaking its foundations: homosexuality.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at online.wsj.com.

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Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#1 Jul 1, 2011
Per Mr. Mohler, "We are about to find out just how much we believe the Gospel we so eagerly preach."

Somehow he neglects to point out where exactly in the four, varying narrative Gospels homosexuality is condemned.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#2 Jul 1, 2011
Then they shall be left on the ash heap of history.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Parksley, VA

#3 Jul 1, 2011
Why wasn't allowing divorced people to have civil rights, get married, and particpate in the evilgelical churches not a "foundation shaking challenge"?

Because they are really grappling with their misogyny and homophobia, not scripture.
John E

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#4 Jul 1, 2011
homosexuality - shaking it's foundations

not war, poverty, women's rights, Lutherans, the Earth not being the center of the Universe, slavery, pedophile priests, divorce, abortion rights, loss of influence in world governments, adultery

amazing that everything else is just a minor occurence

Since: Jul 09

Harrisburg, IL

#5 Jul 1, 2011
You call abortion a right? I call that murder. And no, it's not a freakin' "choice" either. The choice was made when the woman CHOSE to have sex...barring rape of course. Don't wanna have a child? Don't have sex or use birth control. It's that simple. But to kill YOUR unborn just because YOU have second thoughts is no different than what's going on in the Casey Anthony trial.

Since: Jul 09

Harrisburg, IL

#6 Jul 1, 2011
Women's Rights?

Women don't have Rights....Individuals have Rights.

Rights are not something to be bestowed on a certain group of people.

Working people don't have rights. The Middle Class don't have rights. Homosexuals don't have rights. Heterosexuals don't have rights.

But each individual person has rights, and each individual has EQUAL rights...the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS. Note, the word "pursuit" which means that each indivudal may not achieve happiness, but they do have the right to pursuit it.

“Created Equal”

Since: Feb 08

USA

#7 Jul 1, 2011
The "religious problem" is quite simple to understand.

Religions are mythologies, not "revealed truth." They are invented by humans for many reasons: to give people a sense of security in a largely meaningless existence; to justify one's side in conflict; to obtain power and wealth; to control people through fear... many reasons.

But for the religion to be "believed," it's proponents must assert that the teachings aren't something THEY made up, but rather the infallible will of a diety or dieties. This means that once the "law" had been laid down, it cannot be changed.

Unfortunatly, the only constant in human society is change. Without change, there is no progress, no evolution, no growth. There is only stagnation and death. Governments always create mechanisms through which they can change and supplement their own laws, knowing that as society changes, so must the laws which protect it.

Religion has no such mechanism. By it's nature, it cannot allow it's laws to change without declaring that God (or gods) made a mistake. Consequently, every religion ever devised on Earth by humans... from Paleolithic Animism to Neolithic Goddess worship to bronze age Sun Worship to the ancient Egyptian and Greek polytheistic pantheons... all religions gain popularity slowly over centuries, then plateau, then simply fade away or are supplanted by new religions; ones that are better suited to the people living at the time, and the cultures in which they exist.

Joseph Campbell pointed out that the "Hero" myth existed in all cultures in different forms, and usually was the center of the culture's religion.

In today's society, the comic book superhero has supplanted the "true" mythology which underpins religious teachings. People are comforted by their knowledge of the world around them, the gifts of science and rationalism. And they can derive the same heroic inspiration message from their silver screen heroes without having to believe that Ironman or Thor actually exist.

With the great advancement of knowledge and reason since the rennaissance, humans move further and further into the light without a need for a mythology to explain the unexplainable. Religions need people today much more than people today need religions.

And any religion which looks at that which the people witness to be good and beautiful, and declares that it is ugliness and evil because of the beliefs of a culture which dies out 1700 years ago... well that religion isn't likely to last much longer, now is it?

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Parksley, VA

#8 Jul 1, 2011
Lincoln6Echo wrote:
Women's Rights?
Women don't have Rights....Individuals have Rights.
Rights are not something to be bestowed on a certain group of people.
Working people don't have rights. The Middle Class don't have rights. Homosexuals don't have rights. Heterosexuals don't have rights.
But each individual person has rights, and each individual has EQUAL rights...the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS. Note, the word "pursuit" which means that each indivudal may not achieve happiness, but they do have the right to pursuit it.
Dear twisted, evilgelical rube:

Then you are arguing that our society should revoke anti discrimination laws and hate crimes enhancements protecting on the basis of "religious" affiliation. Cos, after all, rights cannot be bestowed upon groups, says you.

As for abortion, if you loons think a fetus is a child then you need to try and prosecute the women seeking abortions for premeditated murder, not just the doctor, give the fetus a Social Security number, count the fetus in the census, allow parents to claim the fetus as a dependent on their tax return, and so on.

snicker

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#9 Jul 1, 2011
from the article, "We cannot pretend as if we do not know that the Bible clearly teaches that all homosexual acts are sinful, as is all human sexual behavior outside the covenant of marriage."

WHERE in the Bible does it way ANY of this??? And WHERE does it define marriage as being solely between one man and one woman?? Where does it condemn all human sexual behavior outside of marriage??

These are all things that the fundies create out of Biblical scripture. They're reading into scripture what they want to read.

I just love how these evangelicals like to pretend that they're not "interpreting" what the Bible says, all the while declaring their faith in things the Bible doesn't ever mention. How is that not "interpreting" the Bible when they believe in things that the Bible doesn't say??
Harry

Sunbury, OH

#10 Jul 1, 2011
eJohn wrote:
from the article, "We cannot pretend as if we do not know that the Bible clearly teaches that all homosexual acts are sinful, as is all human sexual behavior outside the covenant of marriage."
WHERE in the Bible does it way ANY of this??? And WHERE does it define marriage as being solely between one man and one woman?? Where does it condemn all human sexual behavior outside of marriage??
These are all things that the fundies create out of Biblical scripture. They're reading into scripture what they want to read.
I just love how these evangelicals like to pretend that they're not "interpreting" what the Bible says, all the while declaring their faith in things the Bible doesn't ever mention. How is that not "interpreting" the Bible when they believe in things that the Bible doesn't say??
More like gays are reading OUT what they don't want to see there.

“Marriage=Love+Co mmitment.....”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#11 Jul 1, 2011
Lincoln6Echo wrote:
You call abortion a right? I call that murder. And no, it's not a freakin' "choice" either. The choice was made when the woman CHOSE to have sex...barring rape of course. Don't wanna have a child? Don't have sex or use birth control. It's that simple. But to kill YOUR unborn just because YOU have second thoughts is no different than what's going on in the Casey Anthony trial.
Yes, I call it a right; the right of a woman to control her own body, not the state.

It's NOT that simple. You would ignore the fact that rapes DO happen. Birth control DOES fail. Wanted fetus' DO developed malformed or die in-uterto. Women WILL die from toxic pregnancies.
Who is going to raise those unwanted babies? Shall we stick them in the foster care system too and let the state pay for their care until they are 18 and put on the street to take care of themselves?
Harry

Sunbury, OH

#12 Jul 1, 2011
Hey, gays in states where gay marriage is now legal? Are you all going to wait until you are married to have sex? That is Biblical, too.

“Marriage=Love+Co mmitment.....”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#13 Jul 1, 2011
Harry wrote:
Hey, gays in states where gay marriage is now legal? Are you all going to wait until you are married to have sex? That is Biblical, too.
Are you?
Harry

Sunbury, OH

#14 Jul 1, 2011
SFer wrote:
Per Mr. Mohler, "We are about to find out just how much we believe the Gospel we so eagerly preach."
Somehow he neglects to point out where exactly in the four, varying narrative Gospels homosexuality is condemned.
So THAT's how gays wiggle out of what the Bible says. You pretend that only the four narrative gospels matter in the Bible (when you are not telling yourselves that none of it matters).

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#15 Jul 1, 2011
Did anyone else notice the publisher? The Wall Street Journal.

What's up with that? Mixing a little Christianity and capitalism with our heavy-handed op-ed page?

I think at least two of those are mutually exclusive. Or should be.

“Marriage=Love+Co mmitment.....”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#16 Jul 1, 2011
Harry wrote:
<quoted text>
So THAT's how gays wiggle out of what the Bible says. You pretend that only the four narrative gospels matter in the Bible (when you are not telling yourselves that none of it matters).
You do not need to look to the Bible to be moral. The golden rule exists in similar form in every religious tradition and that pretty much says it all.

You do not have the right to impose your religious beliefs on the lives and bodies of other people.

If you would not like a law imposed on you to prevent you from marrying the person you love and want to spend your life with, then don't do it to someone else. It's very simple really, and Biblical.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#17 Jul 1, 2011
Harry wrote:
Hey, gays in states where gay marriage is now legal? Are you all going to wait until you are married to have sex? That is Biblical, too.
Why are you not asking my heterosexual neighbors the same question? And for your answer: I already am.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Parksley, VA

#18 Jul 1, 2011
Harry wrote:
<quoted text>
So THAT's how gays wiggle out of what the Bible says. You pretend that only the four narrative gospels matter in the Bible (when you are not telling yourselves that none of it matters).
Hey Cletus, talibangelicals ignore much that's in the buybull, mostly when it's convenient for them to do so.

Shall we offer examples for your infected mind of what in the buybull you uber "Christians" ignore?

What's your excuse for this cafeteria "Christianity"?

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#19 Jul 1, 2011
Harry wrote:
<quoted text>
So THAT's how gays wiggle out of what the Bible says. You pretend that only the four narrative gospels matter in the Bible (when you are not telling yourselves that none of it matters).
So, then, you clearly believe all of the following as well:

Snakes speak to humans.
So do donkeys.
Fish give overboard seafarers a lift to shore.
The earth is the center of the universe, and the sun revolves about it.
Eating shrimp, lobster, oysters, ham, and lots of other things is a sin.
So is putting cheese on your hamburger.
Wearing polyester blends is a sin.[Well, I actually believe that. But it won't send you to hell.]
There are three days and three nights between Friday and Sunday.

I think I shall look to more reliable sources when I need help understanding the world.

“Common courtesy, isn't”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#20 Jul 1, 2011
I think it's important to note that the author of the article, R. Albert Mohler Jr., is the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY.

Southern Baptists are extreme fundamentalists, to the point that in order to have a position of authority within the Church, applicants must sign a statement declaring that the Bible is inerrant, that the husband is the head of the household, etc. In Texas, several churches / congregations in the convention have been voted out because of their "soft" (i.e., moderate) stances on such issues as homosexuality, women's rights, etc.

Thus Mr. Mohler's position is entirely unsurprising to me. But you know what? It is his right to believe what he will, and to express his beliefs for publication. However, he has no right to force his beliefs on me as an individual, and especially as an American citizen. And that unacknowledged and disrespected boundary is why I keep pushing back every time he and his kind shove forward.

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