Ancient Hawaiian glaciers reveal clues to global climate impacts

Aug 5, 2010 Full story: Physics Org 49

Gray rubble on the flanks of Mauna Kea on the island of Hawaii lie in contrast to the red volcanic rock behind them, and were deposited by a glacier that disappeared thousands of years ago.

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LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#1 Aug 5, 2010
A slowdown of the thermohaline circulation that warms Western Europe would certainly have wide spread effects, but I am not so sure that the effect during the beginngin of the current interglaical and the effect under higher levels of GHGs ( effectively evening temperatures from the poles to equator) are related.

The 'global blanket' of AGW may reduce the global effects of local or regional changes. In fact, their is a current hypothesis that the 'evening out' of temperatures may reduce ALL ocean currents and lead to a 'stagnation' of the oceans due to reduced oxygenation of lower depths.
YouHelpFixIt

Scottsdale, AZ

#2 Aug 5, 2010
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
A slowdown of the thermohaline circulation that warms Western Europe would certainly have wide spread effects, but I am not so sure that the effect during the beginngin of the current interglaical and the effect under higher levels of GHGs ( effectively evening temperatures from the poles to equator) are related.
The 'global blanket' of AGW may reduce the global effects of local or regional changes. In fact, their is a current hypothesis that the 'evening out' of temperatures may reduce ALL ocean currents and lead to a 'stagnation' of the oceans due to reduced oxygenation of lower depths.
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Climate IS the ultimate heat engine since it uses the different temperatures at the poles vs the equator to move air and moisture around. ENSO is just one subunit of that engine. And it all speeds up as you crank up the heat, and therefore, available driving energy. Like stepping on the gas..(pun intended)
So it will slow things down and speed them up. I guess you have to cover all bases when you really don't know one way or the other.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#3 Aug 5, 2010
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
So it will slow things down and speed them up. I guess you have to cover all bases when you really don't know one way or the other.
During the 'warming' phase where temperatures are rising rapidly the system is going to be more 'active' such as ENSO. On the ocean currents, the point was that when we reach the 'equilibrium' peak, the oceans may stop circulation to a large extent. Both are valid points, just at different points in the global warming timeline.

I realise that this is WAY over your head but try, would you?
dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#4 Aug 5, 2010
ok... SO this means...
Global Warming will make the Earth unbearably hot as AMOC (Atlantic meridional overturning circulation) consumes all life in a new ICE AGE?

"The potential under global warming for increases in freshwater from melting ice and changes in precipitation patterns have heightened concerns about the AMOC and related climate effects in the future, researchers said."

Correct me if I have misunderstood.
This story suggests that we will all freeze to death if we do not stop Global Warming.
-koolaid
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#5 Aug 5, 2010
dont drink the koolaid wrote:
ok... SO this means...
Global Warming will make the Earth unbearably hot as AMOC (Atlantic meridional overturning circulation) consumes all life in a new ICE AGE?
"The potential under global warming for increases in freshwater from melting ice and changes in precipitation patterns have heightened concerns about the AMOC and related climate effects in the future, researchers said."
Correct me if I have misunderstood.
This story suggests that we will all freeze to death if we do not stop Global Warming.
-koolaid
That sort of nonsense and gibberish certainly shows you can neither read English or reason. Or you may be faking it and just introducing 'misreading' as red herrings. Pointless as the original post is ther for any intelligent person to read directly.
dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#6 Aug 6, 2010
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
That sort of nonsense and gibberish certainly shows you can neither read English or reason. Or you may be faking it and just introducing 'misreading' as red herrings. Pointless as the original post is ther for any intelligent person to read directly.
Dear LessHypeMoreFact,
Speaking of Pointless-
Clearly, then, I did not understand the point of this story so as an "intelligent person" could you enlighten me?
Sincerely,
koolaid
Black Cloud

Doncaster, UK

#7 Aug 6, 2010
dont drink the koolaid wrote:
ok... SO this means...
Global Warming will make the Earth unbearably hot as AMOC (Atlantic meridional overturning circulation) consumes all life in a new ICE AGE?
"The potential under global warming for increases in freshwater from melting ice and changes in precipitation patterns have heightened concerns about the AMOC and related climate effects in the future, researchers said."
Correct me if I have misunderstood.
This story suggests that we will all freeze to death if we do not stop Global Warming.
-koolaid
There is a theory within climate science that says global warming could trigger another ice age by disrupting thermohaline flow (THF).
A disruption in THF is also one of the main predictions of climate modelling.

Actual obeservation show no significant change to THF despite the modest warming observed.

Since: Apr 10

Milwaukee, WI USA

#8 Aug 6, 2010
And the IPCC clearly tells us that in a warmer world there will be more rain, but all they want to talk about it seems is droughts.

Was that off topic? Sue me.
dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#9 Aug 6, 2010
Black Cloud wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a theory within climate science that says global warming could trigger another ice age by disrupting thermohaline flow (THF).
A disruption in THF is also one of the main predictions of climate modelling.
Actual obeservation show no significant change to THF despite the modest warming observed.
Dear Black Cloud,
Thanks for the explanation of this story. Concise and understandable.

So... given that the thermohaline flow (THF) is at risk of shutting down from the cold fresh water of Polar melt (which sounds like 'negative feedback') perhaps the only thing that stands between all life on Earth freezing to death and salvation is a strong GHG. Maybe Man made CO2, in all it's abundance, could subjugate such climatic change and prevent this Global Warming Freezing Crisis.
-koolaid

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#10 Aug 7, 2010
SO Hawaii had a glacier during the ice age. And when the ice age ended and the earth entered the interglacial period the Hawaii Glacier disappeared and Hawaii became the tropical paradise it is today.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#11 Aug 7, 2010
Black Cloud wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a theory within climate science that says global warming could trigger another ice age by disrupting thermohaline flow
Since there is not such theory, I suggest you mean 'hypothesis' which means 'speculative idea'. So far, no support has come out to back this 'idea'.

They just discovered a MASSIVE current that nobody suspected near the Western portion of Australia and you think they are ready to 'forecast' ocean responses to AGW??
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#12 Aug 7, 2010
tina anne wrote:
SO Hawaii had a glacier during the ice age. And when the ice age ended and the earth entered the interglacial period the Hawaii Glacier disappeared and Hawaii became the tropical paradise it is today.
Dear Tina. Read the story. Your ignorance is curable. Your stupidity probably not but if you read the story you will at least be conversant with the issue and the conclusions.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#13 Aug 7, 2010
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Tina. Read the story. Your ignorance is curable. Your stupidity probably not but if you read the story you will at least be conversant with the issue and the conclusions.
Not only have I rad the story but looked up as Paul Harvey would say, "the rest of the story".

Your right that ignorance if curable but the one suffering form it is you not I. To cure your ignorance you have to do more than sit and read what is presented in a passive manner. You have to actively look for the parts that were omitted. Then you will be conversant in more than the issue and the conclusions reached by this story.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#14 Aug 7, 2010
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only have I rad the story but looked up as Paul Harvey would say, "the rest of the story".
You think that adding bullshit to a story to dilute it will make it better?

Fact is that your response had NO connection to the story and was instead pure babble. That doesn't indicate research. That indictes ignorance. But then every story you post to shows you to be unaware of the substance of the story.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#15 Aug 8, 2010
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
You think that adding bullshit to a story to dilute it will make it better?
Fact is that your response had NO connection to the story and was instead pure babble. That doesn't indicate research. That indictes ignorance. But then every story you post to shows you to be unaware of the substance of the story.
What, telling you to dig deeper and by doing so you will find out more than what was in the story. The only thing that would be added is additional facts. So why are you scared to look any further unless your afraid of what you might find.

Fact is that story was all about what happened in Hawaii during the last ice age and that the whole thing actually disproves your faith. That man had nothing to do with that glacier disappearing since it was nearly gone by the time man showed up.
dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#16 Aug 8, 2010
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Since there is not such theory, I suggest you mean 'hypothesis' which means 'speculative idea'.
Quite right,
And a 'hypothesis' does not become a theory until it has been repeatedly tested and independently demonstrated as unfalsifiable... thus AGW is an 'hypothesis'- not to be confused with 'fact'.
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>So far, no support has come out to back this 'idea'.
Support in the form of repeatable experimental tests.
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
They just discovered a MASSIVE current that nobody suspected near the Western portion of Australia and you think they are ready to 'forecast' ocean responses to AGW??
huh??...'ocean responses' to an hypothesis?
dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#17 Aug 8, 2010
The unofficial theme song (Second Video)for this thread: "Frozen Wasteland"
http://minnesotansforglobalwarming.com/m4gw/v...

Enjoy!
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#18 Aug 8, 2010
dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite right,
And a 'hypothesis' does not become a theory until it has been repeatedly tested and independently demonstrated as unfalsifiable... thus AGW is an 'hypothesis'- not to be confused with 'fact'.
You were doing fine until you took it upon yourself to redefine the science to suite your lack of understanding. The scientists and their academies have accepted AGW as 'theory' having been solidly tested for three decades. It is THEIR acceptance that makes it 'theory' and thus eligeable for science classes as well as forming the 'prior science' to new papers.
dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Support in the form of repeatable experimental tests.
<quoted text>
huh??...'ocean responses' to an hypothesis?
Your crap is your crap. It has no effect outside of your mind.
YouHelpFixIt

Scottsdale, AZ

#19 Aug 9, 2010
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
During the 'warming' phase where temperatures are rising rapidly the system is going to be more 'active' such as ENSO. On the ocean currents, the point was that when we reach the 'equilibrium' peak, the oceans may stop circulation to a large extent. Both are valid points, just at different points in the global warming timeline.
I realise that this is WAY over your head but try, would you?
This is getting downright funny, Please try to explain why you think that a more active system (which we have not seen yet with ENSO) will intensify and then hit some some undefined "equilibrium" point and then result in the oceans circulation stopping.

Sounds like you are cooking something; Heat a pot of water until "equilibium" is reached and then keep the heat on and watch the pot freeze over! HA you are funny.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#20 Aug 9, 2010
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
This is getting downright funny,
Oh, your posts are good enough to put poeople rolling on the floor laughing their asses off.
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
Please try to explain why you think that a more active system (which we have not seen yet with ENSO)
A more active system is the expected result to higher input ( differential heating) which is going to be the norm for decades or until GHG levels stabilise and a bit after to adjust for lag.

And ENSO is well understood to be intensifying, even if we don't mention the fact that it is currently a major year to year factor whereas back a few decades it wasn't even noticeable.
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
will intensify and then hit some some undefined "equilibrium" point and then result in the oceans circulation stopping.
When the system stops changing sometime in the future ( equilibrium temperature higher under a blanket of GHGS that 'even out' the temperature differences over the latitudes, there will be no 'thermohaline circulation' since the ice will have melted and the temperatures will not drive enough density difference to form large currents. This has happened before in the PETMN for instance.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives...

The relative 'stagnation' of the oceans may (as in the PETM) cause carbonates to dissolve in shallower water and add massive amounts of CO2 to the system pushing heat up again. And there is a further danger from the system warming enough in spots to push the chemocline to the surface, resulting in toxic emissions of H2S and possible extinction events.

http://tinyurl.com/2chcwlq

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