Torah's Case for Gay Marriage

Dec 15, 2008 Full story: newsweek.washingtonpost.com 237

At the Burning Bush, confronting the narrow-minded rules of the Pharaoh of "Mitzrayyim" (the Henrew word for Egypt actually means "the strait and narrow"), God took on the name "I Will Be Who I Will Be." Instead of rigidly defending marriage as it used to be, we can honor the God Who Becomes by expanding the circles in which marriage -- a new kind of marriage -- becomes possible.

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Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#1 Dec 15, 2008
Unfortunately Waskow is a Reconstructionist, a small minority denomination of Judaism. The ultra-orthodox will continue to ignore such arguments while they also continue to reproduce faster than other branches, especially in Israel.
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#2 Dec 15, 2008
Civil marriage for gay couples has nothing to do with religion. Homosexuality isnt a sin.
Fitz

Grosse Pointe, MI

#3 Dec 15, 2008
Goodfaith "progressive" Jews and Christians simply say "we are doing a new thing" or "we are being prophetic"

They rarely ever try to claim that the scripture or tradition is actually on their side.

Bestiality is mentioned even less in the Bible than homosexual practice and incest gets only comparable treatment, yet who would be so foolish as to argue that Jews in antiquity would have regarded sex with an animal or sex with oneís mother as inconsequential offenses? Infrequency of mention is often an indicator that the matter in question is foundational rather than insignificant. You donít have to talk a lot about something that most everyone agrees with and that few persons, if any, violate.
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#4 Dec 15, 2008
Homosexuality is mentioned about 4-8 times. It is not a big issue or a sin in any way.
Fitz

Grosse Pointe, MI

#5 Dec 15, 2008
First, the Levitical Holiness Code treats it as a matter of great seriousness. It is the only offense in the sex laws in Leviticus 18 specifically tagged with the word toíevah, meaning ďabomination, something abhorrent (to God).Ē A concordance search shows that when this expression is used in the Old Testament it almost always applies to offenses that we still regard as offensive today (idolatry, child sacrifice, cheating the poor, etc.). The prohibition of man-male sex is also put in the first-tier of sexual offenses (i.e. a capital offense) in Leviticus 20:10-16, along with adultery, man-(step)mother and man-(step)daughter incest, and bestiality, all of which we still regard as heinous today.

This leads to the second point: Leviticus groups the prohibition of homosexual practice with other proscriptions that remain valid. In general the sexual offenses proscribed in Leviticus 18 and 20 donít classify well as acts of merely ritual impurity. Unlike ritual impurity offenses, they arenít contagious by touch, arenít rectified merely by ritual bathing, and involve only intentional acts. These are moral impurity offenses, as Jewish scholar Jonathan Klawans of Boston University has noted in his book Impurity and Sin in Ancient Judaism (Oxford University Press).
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#6 Dec 15, 2008
Leviticus is as big as a joke as it gets. Please. Big time fail.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#7 Dec 15, 2008
flyboy wrote:
Leviticus is as big as a joke as it gets. Please. Big time fail.
Please don't feed the trolls.
MandM

Merrimac, MA

#8 Dec 15, 2008
Fitz wrote:
Goodfaith "progressive" Jews and Christians simply say "we are doing a new thing" or "we are being prophetic"
They rarely ever try to claim that the scripture or tradition is actually on their side.
Bestiality is mentioned even less in the Bible than homosexual practice and incest gets only comparable treatment, yet who would be so foolish as to argue that Jews in antiquity would have regarded sex with an animal or sex with oneís mother as inconsequential offenses? Infrequency of mention is often an indicator that the matter in question is foundational rather than insignificant. You donít have to talk a lot about something that most everyone agrees with and that few persons, if any, violate.
Very helpful, thx!
MandM

Merrimac, MA

#9 Dec 15, 2008
John in Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't feed the trolls.
But, hey, the question is, "Is it true?"
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#10 Dec 15, 2008
MandM wrote:
<quoted text>
Very helpful, thx!
Not really.
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#11 Dec 15, 2008
John in Ottawa wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't feed the trolls.
Right. Ok.

Since: Jun 08

Bridlington, UK

#12 Dec 15, 2008
The Torah, Old Testament and The Koran are just bastardized convulutions of older myths, doctored to and re-arranged in order to control superstitious uneducated peasants a couple of thousand years ago.

We've put men on the moon, split the atom, manipulated genes... and still people hate, argue and even kill over ancient moronic scriptures.

Every step forward mankind takes has nothing to do with monotheist dogma. All religion ever does is drag us backwards.

“Just call me Das. ”

Since: Jul 07

Centereach, NY

#13 Dec 15, 2008
Fitz wrote:
First, the Levitical Holiness Code treats it as a matter of great seriousness. It is the only offense in the sex laws in Leviticus 18 specifically tagged with the word toíevah, meaning ďabomination, something abhorrent (to God).Ē A concordance search shows that when this expression is used in the Old Testament it almost always applies to offenses that we still regard as offensive today (idolatry, child sacrifice, cheating the poor, etc.). The prohibition of man-male sex is also put in the first-tier of sexual offenses (i.e. a capital offense) in Leviticus 20:10-16, along with adultery, man-(step)mother and man-(step)daughter incest, and bestiality, all of which we still regard as heinous today.
This leads to the second point: Leviticus groups the prohibition of homosexual practice with other proscriptions that remain valid. In general the sexual offenses proscribed in Leviticus 18 and 20 donít classify well as acts of merely ritual impurity. Unlike ritual impurity offenses, they arenít contagious by touch, arenít rectified merely by ritual bathing, and involve only intentional acts. These are moral impurity offenses, as Jewish scholar Jonathan Klawans of Boston University has noted in his book Impurity and Sin in Ancient Judaism (Oxford University Press).
That's not what to'evah means. SQUINTING is to'evah, ferpete'ssake!

It means "unclean," and doesn't really have a moral connotation. That would be "zimah."

In the Levitical code, which is for LEVITES (priests), things that are to'evah require that one undergo a ritual bath before praying before the altar.

Furthermore, the Levitical code is about maintaining separation between Hebrews and Canaanites. Notice there's no prohibition of non-Hebrews engaging in this sort of thing, and when the Levitical laws are altered into the law of the land, the verses commonly translated as prohibitions of same-sex activity (There is some question as to whether that's accurate.) are not present.

Ergo, unless your name's Cohen, there's no prohibition. And if your name is Cohen, then you need to go to the mikvah after sex and before praying. If you're a religious Jew, a priest, and follow this interpretation.
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#14 Dec 15, 2008
Gaz the Necrophiliac wrote:
The Torah, Old Testament and The Koran are just bastardized convulutions of older myths, doctored to and re-arranged in order to control superstitious uneducated peasants a couple of thousand years ago.
We've put men on the moon, split the atom, manipulated genes... and still people hate, argue and even kill over ancient moronic scriptures.
Every step forward mankind takes has nothing to do with monotheist dogma. All religion ever does is drag us backwards.
Religious fundamentalist idiots are the ones that are truly driving us back. Back 10000 years.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#15 Dec 15, 2008
Gaz the Necrophiliac wrote:
The Torah, Old Testament and The Koran are just bastardized convulutions of older myths, doctored to and re-arranged in order to control superstitious uneducated peasants a couple of thousand years ago.
We've put men on the moon, split the atom, manipulated genes... and still people hate, argue and even kill over ancient moronic scriptures.
Every step forward mankind takes has nothing to do with monotheist dogma. All religion ever does is drag us backwards.
"We've put men on the moon, split the atom, manipulated genes... and still people hate, argue and even kill over ancient moronic scriptures."
How was the atom, moon and all the stars of heaven formed?
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#16 Dec 15, 2008
Dasein9 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what to'evah means. SQUINTING is to'evah, ferpete'ssake!
It means "unclean," and doesn't really have a moral connotation. That would be "zimah."
In the Levitical code, which is for LEVITES (priests), things that are to'evah require that one undergo a ritual bath before praying before the altar.
Furthermore, the Levitical code is about maintaining separation between Hebrews and Canaanites. Notice there's no prohibition of non-Hebrews engaging in this sort of thing, and when the Levitical laws are altered into the law of the land, the verses commonly translated as prohibitions of same-sex activity (There is some question as to whether that's accurate.) are not present.
Ergo, unless your name's Cohen, there's no prohibition. And if your name is Cohen, then you need to go to the mikvah after sex and before praying. If you're a religious Jew, a priest, and follow this interpretation.
Thanks for bringing the truth to this thread.

Since: Jun 08

Bridlington, UK

#17 Dec 15, 2008
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
"We've put men on the moon, split the atom, manipulated genes... and still people hate, argue and even kill over ancient moronic scriptures."
How was the atom, moon and all the stars of heaven formed?
Read any book about physics.

“Just call me Das. ”

Since: Jul 07

Centereach, NY

#18 Dec 15, 2008
flyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for bringing the truth to this thread.
Sure thing!

Have you encountered a poster named Arin here? His dad's a minister, and has a great line I like to steal: "The Bible was NOT written 200 years ago in English, folks!"
flyboy

Glen Allen, VA

#19 Dec 15, 2008
Dasein9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure thing!
Have you encountered a poster named Arin here? His dad's a minister, and has a great line I like to steal: "The Bible was NOT written 200 years ago in English, folks!"
HAHAAHAHA, exactly!!!! Man, if only people would know that BASIC fact.

And yes, Ive seen him around, having a minster as a father sounds quite interesting.
Israeli

Seattle, WA

#20 Dec 15, 2008
Gaz the Necrophiliac wrote:
The Torah, Old Testament and The Koran are just bastardized convulutions of older myths, doctored to and re-arranged in order to control superstitious uneducated peasants a couple of thousand years ago.
We've put men on the moon, split the atom, manipulated genes... and still people hate, argue and even kill over ancient moronic scriptures.
Every step forward mankind takes has nothing to do with monotheist dogma. All religion ever does is drag us backwards.
You are just another stinking Anti-Semite.

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