Muslim students at Catholic Universit...

Muslim students at Catholic University complain Christian symbols make them uncomfortable ...

There are 367 comments on the www.jihadwatch.org story from Oct 27, 2011, titled Muslim students at Catholic University complain Christian symbols make them uncomfortable .... In it, www.jihadwatch.org reports that:

Crucifixes? At a Catholic university? How about that.

Of course, at the heart of this complaint is the hope of establishing a Muslim prayer space on the campus that would be subject to different standards than the rest of the university -- a little enclave of Islamic law where its ban on the display of crosses would be "respected" ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.jihadwatch.org.

soul

Cabot, AR

#355 Nov 7, 2011
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, I'm probably the last person in this forum you can convince about Ahmad Deedat's debate "skills".
I'm surprised you chose Ahmad Deedat.... I don't think you want to support Ahmad Deedat, many modern muslim apologists not buying his approach. Even his south african supporters were voicing dissapointment with him for his inability to respond to backup his claims of "facts" against christianity when challenged. I have listened to some of his debates and "lectures" in the past, here's what I wrote about him on this forum:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TSN...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T8R...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TUG...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TN3...
Note that in Deedat's era, christians have not started to know Islam much and Deedat was able to play that too his advantage in mostly muslim crouds. He surely was able to play into the emotion, frenzy and roaring of muslim audiences when not much verification could be done, but that day is long gone... if Deedat is to debate todays christian debators, he would be another one of those "useful idiots" described here by muslim:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TSN...
Really, todays muslim debators (Shabir Ally in particular) are far better than Ahmad Deedat... even his "student" Yusuf Ismail is better than him (and imo better than Zakir Naik).
I'm curious to know if you support the Number 19 miracle?
I only referenced Ahmad Deedat because I do like some of his videos. I watched some of his videos and I do like some like the link I posted above. He seems to have very good knowledge of the bible when he debated Jimmy Swaggart. You could be right about him as I really do not have any extensive knowledge of him. I have not heard of accusations of him not backing up his facts as I only watched him on youtube. I cant say I really studied about him.

I am aware though that his lectures were in the past and you are right it was to his advantage as not many people really know too much depth into Islam. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I agree with you their are far better Muslim debaters today.

To be honest, I do not really know much about the Number 19 miracle.I can't say I support it at all.
soul

Cabot, AR

#356 Nov 7, 2011
I forgot to add Shabir Ali is the best Muslim debater and I agree with you he is better than Ahmad Deedat.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#357 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you are right, I might not have been totally reasonable. I do not know what all I said and I'm not going to say I do remember.
I remember that post and I still disagree with that. Islam is not the problem but I will not deny that there are Muslims who are part of the problem. Like I stated before in another thread, this whole conflict in very complicated. There are way too many things that deal with the whole situation in the Middle East and I do not think its fair to purely say it is Muslims v non-Muslims. Just my two cents about this never ending subject lol.
:)

Ok.

I came to the conclusion that Islam was the problem, but I promise you, it was not the conclusion I ever wanted to come to. I came here as a last resort, hoping with all my heart that Muslims would prove to me that Islam was not the inspiration and motivation of Muslim terrorism and that Islam was not a threat to my liberties.

I believe without an Islamic reformation, the violence and radicalism that too many Muslims have embraced in the name of Islam, will only get worse.
Storm Warning

Cazenovia, WI

#358 Nov 7, 2011
Joe98 wrote:
There is a thread titled "Why do people hate muslims?"
This can be addded to that thread.
-
Oh Yeah well I have a few things you can add to that, like the body count from Iraq today or the body count from Afghanistan or the body count from Europe, or the number of White women sexually assaulted by these people in countries where they have liberal idiots stupid enough to let invaders in
soul

Cabot, AR

#359 Nov 7, 2011
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
:)
Ok.
I came to the conclusion that Islam was the problem, but I promise you, it was not the conclusion I ever wanted to come to. I came here as a last resort, hoping with all my heart that Muslims would prove to me that Islam was not the inspiration and motivation of Muslim terrorism and that Islam was not a threat to my liberties.
I believe without an Islamic reformation, the violence and radicalism that too many Muslims have embraced in the name of Islam, will only get worse.
I disagree with your conclusion. Coming to a forum with many people who do not even know what they are talking about is not a way to change your mind. If your mind was already made before and you came here as a last resort then there is nothing to change your perception on Islam. In any forum, you will have your idiots and you will have very strong opinionated comments. There will be stupid debates, heated arguments, people incapable of debating, etc. If I were to come to go to a forum and read everything Christians wrote and their hate towards Muslims like me I would feel the same way about Christians. I was raised here in the U.S. and I have many good Christian friends as well as many from other faiths. I know that what I read is not how Christians really feel no matter the insults, people calling for Muslims to be killed, praising the deaths of Muslims, talking about nuking Muslims, etc.

If you really want to know about Islam, make some Muslim friends like I have done with Christians. They were ignorant of Muslims till they met me and my family. I have many Christian friends and I debate with them all the time. I think of no less than them and they think of no less than me.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#360 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree with your conclusion. Coming to a forum with many people who do not even know what they are talking about is not a way to change your mind. If your mind was already made before and you came here as a last resort then there is nothing to change your perception on Islam. In any forum, you will have your idiots and you will have very strong opinionated comments. There will be stupid debates, heated arguments, people incapable of debating, etc. If I were to come to go to a forum and read everything Christians wrote and their hate towards Muslims like me I would feel the same way about Christians. I was raised here in the U.S. and I have many good Christian friends as well as many from other faiths. I know that what I read is not how Christians really feel no matter the insults, people calling for Muslims to be killed, praising the deaths of Muslims, talking about nuking Muslims, etc.
If you really want to know about Islam, make some Muslim friends like I have done with Christians. They were ignorant of Muslims till they met me and my family. I have many Christian friends and I debate with them all the time. I think of no less than them and they think of no less than me.
Let me again explain, I suspected, but did NOT come to a conclusion, that is why I came here. I came here, as I said, hoping my suspicions would be proven wrong.

I'd appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I gave Muslims opportunity and years to help me out with my questions.

This website was only one venue among other sources, also.

I'm sorry you automatically disagree, just like in your other post, it makes me wonder how open minded you really are.
:(
soul

Cabot, AR

#361 Nov 7, 2011
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me again explain, I suspected, but did NOT come to a conclusion, that is why I came here. I came here, as I said, hoping my suspicions would be proven wrong.
I'd appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I gave Muslims opportunity and years to help me out with my questions.
This website was only one venue among other sources, also.
I'm sorry you automatically disagree, just like in your other post, it makes me wonder how open minded you really are.
:(
I know what you are saying Trisha but it does not mean that I have to agree with you that understand. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you had a good intention. I do disagree with that coming to this forum was to change the perception you were starting to form. You did say you tried many other sources but failed to learn what you want so I can respect that.

I think better options are to become friends with Muslims. Learn how they feel on certain Issues, I think by understanding them you will make a better decision whatever that may be. Going to a forum doesn't change perception but instead causes animosity between each other. Everything I read in a forum I take with a grain of salt, I try not to judge by peoples ill comments. Another option maybe to go to a community Mosque and talk with some people there.

If you still feel this way than I do not know what to really say. Maybe as the years pass, we may be able to understand each other better through history as this conflict hopefully comes to an end.

Just my two cents....
soul

Cabot, AR

#362 Nov 7, 2011
I meant to say in the first sentence that [I know what you are saying Trisha but it does not mean that I have to agree with you to understand].
bmz

San Diego, CA

#363 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what you are saying Trisha but it does not mean that I have to agree with you that understand. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you had a good intention. I do disagree with that coming to this forum was to change the perception you were starting to form. You did say you tried many other sources but failed to learn what you want so I can respect that.
I think better options are to become friends with Muslims. Learn how they feel on certain Issues, I think by understanding them you will make a better decision whatever that may be. Going to a forum doesn't change perception but instead causes animosity between each other. Everything I read in a forum I take with a grain of salt, I try not to judge by peoples ill comments. Another option maybe to go to a community Mosque and talk with some people there.
If you still feel this way than I do not know what to really say. Maybe as the years pass, we may be able to understand each other better through history as this conflict hopefully comes to an end.
Just my two cents....
how they feel about issues....you FCKING BASTARD will run away.

how do you feel about ex-muslims proselytizing in muslim countries.

just say the FCK with ISLAM and FCK the BASTARD mohammad and save yourself the trouble of lying.

i say f. u. for lying and f. islam.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#364 Nov 7, 2011
Muslims can't not lie. Lying is one of the "pillars" of Islam.
soul

Cabot, AR

#365 Nov 7, 2011
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
how they feel about issues....you FCKING BASTARD will run away.
how do you feel about ex-muslims proselytizing in muslim countries.
just say the FCK with ISLAM and FCK the BASTARD mohammad and save yourself the trouble of lying.
i say f. u. for lying and f. islam.
People like you are the problem, you are just as big of an extremist as the people you hate. You can insult me all you like but that is not what will make me leave a forum. I leave a forum under my own conditions and it is not to run away. I participate when I feel, leave when I want, and come back to participate later on when I want. Nothing to what you say will run me off. I am no coward......
bmz

San Diego, CA

#366 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
People like you are the problem, you are just as big of an extremist as the people you hate. You can insult me all you like but that is not what will make me leave a forum. I leave a forum under my own conditions and it is not to run away. I participate when I feel, leave when I want, and come back to participate later on when I want. Nothing to what you say will run me off. I am no coward......
people like me know how an islamist think....FCKFACE.

you challenge the non - muslims to understand issue, and that's what most of us are here doing. don't play the fool using the same trickery you learn in you madrasah getting non-muslims to embrace only your side of the argument.

but FCK FACE like yours will run away.

so FCKFACE...what say we open up the mosques and madrasahs and let others bring in their religion to preach their religion in places considered waqf.

RUN BOY!

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#367 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what you are saying Trisha but it does not mean that I have to agree with you that understand. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you had a good intention. I do disagree with that coming to this forum was to change the perception you were starting to form. You did say you tried many other sources but failed to learn what you want so I can respect that.
I think better options are to become friends with Muslims. Learn how they feel on certain Issues, I think by understanding them you will make a better decision whatever that may be. Going to a forum doesn't change perception but instead causes animosity between each other. Everything I read in a forum I take with a grain of salt, I try not to judge by peoples ill comments. Another option maybe to go to a community Mosque and talk with some people there.
If you still feel this way than I do not know what to really say. Maybe as the years pass, we may be able to understand each other better through history as this conflict hopefully comes to an end.
Just my two cents....
I certainly did not expect you to agree with me, but I did not expect you to automatically disagree.

It's been decades of research on my part, btw. I have talked to Muslims, I have some as friends, so really it's not helping find answers.

You must understand, I'm not on a search for a religion or way of life, I am completely satisfied and happy in my own choice. My concern and research into Islam is because I wanted to understand Islamic terrorism. That was only the beginning. After much research and listening to Muslims did I begin to realize that Islam was the problem.

Essentially if Islam did not require the taking of political power, all of the other wrongs in Islam would not be an issue. Islam rejects separation of religion and state, it restricts freedom of expression, liberty and freedom of conscience.

If Muslims reformed Islam into a belief system that rejected taking power, taking political power, embraced separation of religion and state, allowed freedom of expression and conscience, I believe we might actually have some peace in this world.
soul

Cabot, AR

#368 Nov 7, 2011
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me again explain, I suspected, but did NOT come to a conclusion, that is why I came here. I came here, as I said, hoping my suspicions would be proven wrong.
I'd appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I gave Muslims opportunity and years to help me out with my questions.
This website was only one venue among other sources, also.
I'm sorry you automatically disagree, just like in your other post, it makes me wonder how open minded you really are.
:(
I just wanted to add that no matter the disagreements with each other, I respect you. You are not like the others and that is why I debate you. Certain people I tend to ignore for obvious reasons but I can say it was a pleasure debating you. I do not expect you to agree with me not that I am saying we cannot agree on certain things. It's nice for a change to debate a rational person who doesn't resort to childish insults.
soul

Cabot, AR

#369 Nov 7, 2011
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly did not expect you to agree with me, but I did not expect you to automatically disagree.
It's been decades of research on my part, btw. I have talked to Muslims, I have some as friends, so really it's not helping find answers.
You must understand, I'm not on a search for a religion or way of life, I am completely satisfied and happy in my own choice. My concern and research into Islam is because I wanted to understand Islamic terrorism. That was only the beginning. After much research and listening to Muslims did I begin to realize that Islam was the problem.
Essentially if Islam did not require the taking of political power, all of the other wrongs in Islam would not be an issue. Islam rejects separation of religion and state, it restricts freedom of expression, liberty and freedom of conscience.
If Muslims reformed Islam into a belief system that rejected taking power, taking political power, embraced separation of religion and state, allowed freedom of expression and conscience, I believe we might actually have some peace in this world.
I do agree with some of your points. I would like to see a secular democracy like in Turkey than Islam as a political movement in Arab countries.
LBer

Long Beach, CA

#370 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
...
It may not be very detailed about each thing but I think for me the message is clear. Arabic has a lot to do with clarity of the Quran though, it says in the Quran if you miss one letter then you can change the meaning of it. I think it helps out a lot more if you understand Arabic.... The reason is because their are many words in the Quran that are very hard to translate into English which cant change the meaning of a verse. Arabic has lots of words that can mean many things so its important that you read the Quran in the context that it is given. I think the hadith has to do with misunderstanding and not the Quran. The Quran is the only right source that is pure if you are Muslim. I would take everything from the hadith with a grain of salt. Too many inconsistencies and if you believe in the Quran than you believe it is the word of God to which the hadith is not.
...
This is an idea we've all heard over and over (though usually not in such a civil manner.) The idea that we can not understand properly the Koran unless we read it in Arabic.

There is nothing new under the sun. There is no concept, emotion, or meaning that is unique to only a specific group of humans, such that another group could not understand it. The translation may lose some of it's eloquence - some of it's poetry - but the concept can be understood by all(though perhaps not agreed with).

The translation very well may take more words to get the idea across, as yes due to cultural long term usage a single word may have been assigned a long and relatively complex meaning.

Would Allah only want those who understand Arabic to understand his word? Would he limit humanity in such a way?

There have been highly esteemed Islamic scholars who have translated the Koran into other languages; these translations have been painstakingly gone over at the time by other respected Islamic scholars, the Book gone over for critique with a 'fine tooth comb', and the various translations compared to see if they agreed.

At some point you have to say, "Yes, this too is the Koran."

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#371 Nov 7, 2011
Trisha, did you just take in the views which supported your view that Islam is the root cause of most terror related activities prepertrated by Muslims? Because there is a good lot of us here which have denounced and state that there is nothing in the Quran which supports such activites?
bmz

San Diego, CA

#372 Nov 7, 2011
soul wrote:
<quoted text>
I just wanted to add that no matter the disagreements with each other, I respect you. You are not like the others and that is why I debate you. Certain people I tend to ignore for obvious reasons but I can say it was a pleasure debating you. I do not expect you to agree with me not that I am saying we cannot agree on certain things. It's nice for a change to debate a rational person who doesn't resort to childish insults.
Trish can word it different and ask you the same, and you will still RUN. Don't believe me?? We shall See.

people like me know how an islamist think....FCKFACE.

you challenge the non - muslims to understand issue, and that's what most of us are here doing. don't play the fool using the same trickery you learn in you madrasah getting non-muslims to embrace only your side of the argument.

but FCK FACE like yours will run away.

so FCKFACE...what say we open up the mosques and madrasahs and let others bring in their religion to preach their religion in places considered waqf.

RUN BOY!

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#373 Nov 8, 2011
Faith wrote:
Muslims can't not lie. Lying is one of the "pillars" of Islam.
They call it deception with a smile.
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#374 Nov 8, 2011
soul wrote:
I only referenced Ahmad Deedat because I do like some of his videos..
I listened to Deedat's debates with Josh McDowell and Anis Shorrosh, but not the debate with Swaggat. I wasn't interested in Swaggat's debate because I personally don't like him and when I started to listen to debates, I heard even christians admit Swaggat did badly in the debate with Deedat (wonder why muslims love to bring out the Swaggat debate?)

I may actually want to listen to that debate to see how badly he did. They say he was completely unprepared for muslim debate, and thought he could get away with his usual messages.

Once upon a time, christian apologists were not aware of arguments circulating among muslim apologists against christianity such as their use of Gospels of Barnabas and certain claims about biblical text forgery, and the attack they developed targeting Paul's teachings. When coming to debate with muslims equipped with these Combat Kits, they were simply caught offguard and didn't have the rebuttals we now have to answer muslim claims. Today, things are very different, muslim apologist are no longer willing to use Gospel of Barnabas to argue against Christianity as they too are becoming aware that it is a later forgery containing language and events not of the biblical time.

Ahmed Deedat's debates focus on polemics against christianity, and he surely scored points with muslims enjoying attack-only privillege when christians were mostly apologists instead of doing counter attacks on Islam and its prophet. If you go back and look at those debate titles of Ahmed Deedat, the title he engagged in was that about bible criticism and Jesus's deity - something that even atheists can do better. It has been a while since I last listened to deedats debate, but my impression of him was "bad" because of his display of pride, his frequent use of "mokery" and tones that sound disrespectful, his taking of biblical verses out of context - one example still used widely by muslims is that “But those enemies of mine... bring them here and kill them in front of me" parable" which he knew full well was a story told by Jesus, but he made it "Jesus's command to kill". In McDowell's debate, he also demanded a proof of "where Jesus said in the entire new testament the sentence I will come back to live", similar argument to "where did Jesus say the exact sentence - I am God, worship me!".

John Gilchrist (a really nice and gentle christian apologist so nice that I disagreed with his approach when he debated Shabir Ally) was responsible for major rebuttals to Ahmed Deedats claims (google his book!) that Deedat failed to respond to to the dissapointment of his muslim supporters. I think you can find Ahmad Deedats criticism all over the internet as well as I can, even from muslims. Here're some examples:

http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Deedat/c...

It was no surprise at all that Deedat refused to respond to christians demand of answering their counter rebuttals because it was impossible to explain the reason of taking things out of context. In refusing to offer an answer a guy called David Foster, he said:"I am like a man riding along in a caravan. A dog barking at the side of the road doesn't really pose a problem to me".

A group of south african muslim in THE MUSLIM DIGEST had this to say about Deedat:

http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Deedat/d...

which ended like this:

"If only Mr Deedat had heeded the warnings given to him on his un-Islamic method of propagating Islam, neither he nor the Muslim community would have suffered such a humiliating defeat. Incidentally, perhaps with wounded pride at the end of this humiliating defeat, Mr Deedat perhaps in frustration, made certain defamatory statements against Mr John Gilchrist that led to a court action by Mr Gilchrist, after Deedat refused to make an apology. Deedat lost the subsequent court action and paid damages and costs totalling to R2,138-00"

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Georgetown University Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Next Article:Shon Hopwood's Amazing Legal Journ... Oct 15 Cindy 1
News Trump Does Not Own the Future Oct 8 Watch for Finger 9
News It will be momentous': Supreme Court embarking ... Oct 3 Fundie Sniffling 8
News July 30, 2017What happens when a professor in Q... Jul '17 man 1
News A Jewish professor taught at a Catholic school ... Jul '17 Scout 1
News Police use facial recognition much more than yo... (Oct '16) Jul '17 lavon affair 7
News Gadhafi: U.S. should seek peace with bin Laden (Feb '09) Jul '17 Lottery Mistress 55
More from around the web