Study: Health care overhaul would rai...

Study: Health care overhaul would raise deficit by at least $340 billion

There are 20 comments on the Daily Journal story from Apr 9, 2012, titled Study: Health care overhaul would raise deficit by at least $340 billion. In it, Daily Journal reports that:

Reigniting a debate about the bottom line for President Barack Obama's health care law, a leading conservative economist estimates in a study to be released Tuesday that the overhaul will add at least $340 billion to the deficit, not reduce it.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Journal.

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#1 Apr 10, 2012
Raise ya this and that amount, slash this and that, budget cut this and that...WHEN EXACTLY DO the taxpayers get a break?? WHERE ARE THE jobs?? WHY ARE THE unemployment numbers rising? WHY ARE ILLEGALS getting tuition assistance and free bennies..when OUR own Veterans are pan handling on the streets??? Explain to me WHY this Healthcare Plan is even worth overhauling OR having it put in place??

“Obama Is Mentally Sick”

Since: Oct 11

AOL

#2 Apr 10, 2012
Tens of millions will never obey the mandate. Millions will go postal if government trys to force them to obey.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#3 Apr 10, 2012
Blues Dot Com wrote:
Tens of millions will never obey the mandate. Millions will go postal if government trys to force them to obey.
I know. They don't want to have to pay their own way. They'd rather pass their cost onto everyone else.
Robert

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#4 Apr 10, 2012
Blues Dot Com wrote:
Tens of millions will never obey the mandate. Millions will go postal if government trys to force them to obey.
They don't obey then the fine for not obeying the mandate will be taxed on to their tax bill. The government will be taking their return.

What a stupid idea, the rich who will get a good return from which the government can attack will have insurance anyway so that they won't have a fine. The poor will will get vouchers to pay for the insurance so they won't get fined.

It is the people between poor and middle class who will get the squeeze, especially the ones who are young and want to bank on their good health as being their insurance until they are able to get some. They will get fined but it won't take them long to adjust their tax withholding so that they don't have so much money left over for the government to grab.

The whole thing will be a failure and cost even more than the hundreds of billions that it is projected to cost. On top of all that there will still be a big group of uninsured, those people getting fined.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#6 Apr 10, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't obey then the fine for not obeying the mandate will be taxed on to their tax bill. The government will be taking their return.
What a stupid idea, the rich who will get a good return from which the government can attack will have insurance anyway so that they won't have a fine. The poor will will get vouchers to pay for the insurance so they won't get fined.
It is the people between poor and middle class who will get the squeeze, especially the ones who are young and want to bank on their good health as being their insurance until they are able to get some. They will get fined but it won't take them long to adjust their tax withholding so that they don't have so much money left over for the government to grab.
The whole thing will be a failure and cost even more than the hundreds of billions that it is projected to cost. On top of all that there will still be a big group of uninsured, those people getting fined.
You don't "bank" on something like good health. ANYONE can get cancer at ANY age. ANYONE can have an accident at ANY age. My 26 year old uninsured son, who should be at the pinnacle of health, has been fighting a MRSA infection for months that has gone through numerous rounds of antibiotics. Should he have to go into the hospital for surgical removal of the infection and IV antibiotic therapy the bill could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, ALL of which YOU and I, as insured people, will have to pay for.

Do you think hospitals and doctors simply smile at unpaying patients and give them a free pass? Do you realize how many people in this country DO NOT pay for health insurance - mostly because it costs too much. But THEY are the reason those of us who ARE insured are paying out the ass. We have to pay OUR way and we have to pay for THEM..... AND we have to pay for Medicaid patients, too. Hell, those of who are insured pay for everybody.

I work in healthcare. Unless you do, you have no idea the cost that non-pay patients place on doctors and facilities and that cost is passed right along to those who do pay. It would be like me going to the grocery store and filling up my shopping cart and charging it to the person behind me at the check-out.

And here's another fact for you to chew on. As healthcare costs continue to skyrocket, employers are looking for an out. They no longer want to be in the business of carrying the bulk of of health insurance costs for their employees. So many are looking to put more and more of the cost on the employee. Pretty soon, your paycheck is going to look mighty slim.

So, for want of a shoe the kingdom was lost. You idiots don't want a plan that would spread the cost and responsibility and take the burden off those of us who do pay. Instead, you want the right to rack up a load of medical bills (I can't help it if I got sick) and make everyone else pick up the tab.

Eleanor

Vernon Hills, IL

#7 Apr 10, 2012
All Obama seems to do is to try to 'buy votes' by pushing legislation that appears to benefit people, even though the government doesn't have the money to pay for it.
Les Claypool

Fairfield, CT

#8 Apr 10, 2012
Yes. Government involvement in our personal health care will improve quality and lower costs.

And monkey's may fly out of your backside...
Robert

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#9 Apr 10, 2012
PayThat CEO wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't "bank" on something like good health. ANYONE can get cancer at ANY age. ANYONE can have an accident at ANY age. My 26 year old uninsured son, who should be at the pinnacle of health, has been fighting a MRSA infection for months that has gone through numerous rounds of antibiotics. Should he have to go into the hospital for surgical removal of the infection and IV antibiotic therapy the bill could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, ALL of which YOU and I, as insured people, will have to pay for.
Do you think hospitals and doctors simply smile at unpaying patients and give them a free pass? Do you realize how many people in this country DO NOT pay for health insurance - mostly because it costs too much. But THEY are the reason those of us who ARE insured are paying out the ass. We have to pay OUR way and we have to pay for THEM..... AND we have to pay for Medicaid patients, too. Hell, those of who are insured pay for everybody.
I work in healthcare. Unless you do, you have no idea the cost that non-pay patients place on doctors and facilities and that cost is passed right along to those who do pay. It would be like me going to the grocery store and filling up my shopping cart and charging it to the person behind me at the check-out.
And here's another fact for you to chew on. As healthcare costs continue to skyrocket, employers are looking for an out. They no longer want to be in the business of carrying the bulk of of health insurance costs for their employees. So many are looking to put more and more of the cost on the employee. Pretty soon, your paycheck is going to look mighty slim.
So, for want of a shoe the kingdom was lost. You idiots don't want a plan that would spread the cost and responsibility and take the burden off those of us who do pay. Instead, you want the right to rack up a load of medical bills (I can't help it if I got sick) and make everyone else pick up the tab.
That is a pack of lies, if it were true this bill would bring down the price of insurance for those who pay for it (like me) and the government would save money on the health care it pays for.

Apparently you did not even read the title of the article, this bill it is not only costing us the max they said it would, it cost an additional 340 billion dollars. My insurance went up not down as a direct result of this bill and I am sure I am in for more increases next year.

You know there are some people across the world living in mud huts with no insurance either, maybe we should add them to the plan. Unlike you I feel not compulsion to pay for someone else s because healthcare because once you do that there is no end to it.

This all started with social security, we have to do something for the old people so they are not left out in the cold when the can't work any longer. Now we have people living on the public dole in housing projects who are teenagers and have no intention of getting a job because it is easier to live there and work the corner. We had to pass special legislation to stop sex offenders from receiving government paid for Viagra. These things stem from weak willed people saying we have to do something.

Since: Jul 07

Newport News, VA

#10 Apr 10, 2012
apparently of the people who use the emergency room for non-emergency services, something like 80% already have insurance or medicaid coverage. they don't want to pay the co-pay. why can't emergency triage kick out the cases that are not life-threatening?
Robert

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#11 Apr 10, 2012
GoodNewz wrote:
apparently of the people who use the emergency room for non-emergency services, something like 80% already have insurance or medicaid coverage. they don't want to pay the co-pay. why can't emergency triage kick out the cases that are not life-threatening?
I don't know what insurance your talking about, my copay is $20 but if I use the emergency room it is $200

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#12 Apr 10, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a pack of lies, if it were true this bill would bring down the price of insurance for those who pay for it (like me) and the government would save money on the health care it pays for.
Apparently you did not even read the title of the article, this bill it is not only costing us the max they said it would, it cost an additional 340 billion dollars. My insurance went up not down as a direct result of this bill and I am sure I am in for more increases next year.
You know there are some people across the world living in mud huts with no insurance either, maybe we should add them to the plan. Unlike you I feel not compulsion to pay for someone else s because healthcare because once you do that there is no end to it.
This all started with social security, we have to do something for the old people so they are not left out in the cold when the can't work any longer. Now we have people living on the public dole in housing projects who are teenagers and have no intention of getting a job because it is easier to live there and work the corner. We had to pass special legislation to stop sex offenders from receiving government paid for Viagra. These things stem from weak willed people saying we have to do something.
It's a pack of lies because that's what you want to believe it is.

How do you feel about giving millions of dollars to support Israel? We've been doing it for years. Don't hear you complaining about that. No, you'd rather take American tax dollars away from AMERICAN people and give it to foreigners. We've spent over a trillion dollars in Iraq. We're still spending money there rebuilding that country we should have never bombed in the first place. AMERICAN tax dollars that should go to take care of the needs of AMERICAN people. You're one of those who loves war and kissing foreign ass because your stock portfolio is probably loaded with defense contract companies.

But back to healthcare. In theory, yes, this bill should bring down the cost of it for those of us who are insured. There are no guarantees because, afterall, we're a capitalist country and insurance companies can charge what they want. What the bill will do, however, is stop the freeloading that is driving up the cost of healthcare. You're going to pay for other people one way or the other. As the number uninsured people in America continues to go up, so will your premiums and mine. Pick your poison.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#13 Apr 10, 2012
GoodNewz wrote:
apparently of the people who use the emergency room for non-emergency services, something like 80% already have insurance or medicaid coverage. they don't want to pay the co-pay. why can't emergency triage kick out the cases that are not life-threatening?
Now you're in my territory.

NO ONE can be turned away from an emergency department and no illness or accident can be determined "life-threatening" until the patient has been evaluated by a physician (all of which costs money).

Every few people with insurance use the ER as a primary care facility. It's too expensive. But millions of Medicaid patients do. If you think hospitals like Medicaid, think again. The facility makes pennies on the dollar. One of our hospitals has come close to closing more than once over the last several years because 98% of our patients are either non-pay or Medicaid. It's very difficult to run a facility when you don't make any money.

Abuse of Medicaid is rampant because it is FREE, which is why I'm against FREE healthcare. I think everyone should pay something depending on their economic status. However, when you give someone a free pass, they will use it and abuse it and think nothing of it.

Even if we charged Medicaid patients $10.00 a visit, they might reconsider taking that child to the ER because he's constipated. If they had to pay $10.00 for prescription lice medication, they might decide to head on down to the drug store and buy it for $3.00 instead. But when everything is free, people just never give any consideration to how they abuse the services.

Then you add in the non-pay patients, of which there are more than you can count. They walk out the door with a bill that they promptly toss in the garbage can because they know darn well they either cannot or will not pay it.

Let's say you ran a sandwich shop. Let's say each sandwich costs $4.00 but for 70% of your customers you sold them for $1.00. Then let's say 20% of your customers walked out without paying. How long do you think your shop would stay open on the 10% of customers who actually pay and pay the full price? How would your paying customers feel if you charged THEM 150% more for THEIR sandwich in order to make up for your losses and turn a profit?

This is happening in hospitals all across the U.S. We all suffer because of it. Hospitals can't staff properly, the quality of healthcare diminishes, and everyone (even those who have insurance) end up paying higher premiums, co-pays, and charges for tests and procedures. The loss HAS to be made up in order for the facility to stay in business.

By making everyone pay their own way we eleviate some of the stress on healthcare facilities, AND, like I posted earlier, in theory the price of healthcare should stabilize, if not come down. As it stands now, we're on a collision course and eventually the number of Americans who can afford health insurance will be fewer and fewer. The number who qualify for Medicaid will climb. See the vicious cycle, all because we refuse to see the forest for the trees.
Eleanor

Vernon Hills, IL

#14 Apr 10, 2012
PayThat CEO wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're in my territory.
NO ONE can be turned away from an emergency department and no illness or accident can be determined "life-threatening" until the patient has been evaluated by a physician (all of which costs money).
Every few people with insurance use the ER as a primary care facility. It's too expensive. But millions of Medicaid patients do. If you think hospitals like Medicaid, think again. The facility makes pennies on the dollar. One of our hospitals has come close to closing more than once over the last several years because 98% of our patients are either non-pay or Medicaid. It's very difficult to run a facility when you don't make any money.
Abuse of Medicaid is rampant because it is FREE, which is why I'm against FREE healthcare. I think everyone should pay something depending on their economic status. However, when you give someone a free pass, they will use it and abuse it and think nothing of it.
Even if we charged Medicaid patients $10.00 a visit, they might reconsider taking that child to the ER because he's constipated. If they had to pay $10.00 for prescription lice medication, they might decide to head on down to the drug store and buy it for $3.00 instead. But when everything is free, people just never give any consideration to how they abuse the services.
Then you add in the non-pay patients, of which there are more than you can count. They walk out the door with a bill that they promptly toss in the garbage can because they know darn well they either cannot or will not pay it.
Let's say you ran a sandwich shop. Let's say each sandwich costs $4.00 but for 70% of your customers you sold them for $1.00. Then let's say 20% of your customers walked out without paying. How long do you think your shop would stay open on the 10% of customers who actually pay and pay the full price? How would your paying customers feel if you charged THEM 150% more for THEIR sandwich in order to make up for your losses and turn a profit?
This is happening in hospitals all across the U.S. We all suffer because of it. Hospitals can't staff properly, the quality of healthcare diminishes, and everyone (even those who have insurance) end up paying higher premiums, co-pays, and charges for tests and procedures. The loss HAS to be made up in order for the facility to stay in business.
By making everyone pay their own way we eleviate some of the stress on healthcare facilities, AND, like I posted earlier, in theory the price of healthcare should stabilize, if not come down. As it stands now, we're on a collision course and eventually the number of Americans who can afford health insurance will be fewer and fewer. The number who qualify for Medicaid will climb. See the vicious cycle, all because we refuse to see the forest for the trees.
As far as Medicaid is concerned, when hospitals accept pennies on the dollars from Medicaid and CHARGE regular insurance companies a HIGHER AMOUNT for someone else, isn't that basically insurance fraud??

If a doctor accepts, say $25 from a 'cash paying' patient and turns around and charges $50 from someone with insurance, THAT is fraud.

So, why isn't Medicaid considered FRAUD???
Robert

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#15 Apr 10, 2012
PayThat CEO wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a pack of lies because that's what you want to believe it is.
How do you feel about giving millions of dollars to support Israel? We've been doing it for years. Don't hear you complaining about that. No, you'd rather take American tax dollars away from AMERICAN people and give it to foreigners. We've spent over a trillion dollars in Iraq. We're still spending money there rebuilding that country we should have never bombed in the first place. AMERICAN tax dollars that should go to take care of the needs of AMERICAN people. You're one of those who loves war and kissing foreign ass because your stock portfolio is probably loaded with defense contract companies.
But back to healthcare. In theory, yes, this bill should bring down the cost of it for those of us who are insured. There are no guarantees because, afterall, we're a capitalist country and insurance companies can charge what they want. What the bill will do, however, is stop the freeloading that is driving up the cost of healthcare. You're going to pay for other people one way or the other. As the number uninsured people in America continues to go up, so will your premiums and mine. Pick your poison.
Let me answer some of those questions for you cause I have no idea where you got the thoughts from,

I don't think we should be giving a dollar to any other country when we don't have enough money to take care of ourselves and have to borrow 40 cents of every dollar we give away to another country.

What the hell kind of sense it is to spend millions of dollars on high tech weapons to destroy things in Iraq then come in behind it and rebuild it all, they did not get that idea from me. If it were up to me we would not be there in the first place. Nor do I believe we should be over in Afghanistan, all we are doing are creating more enemies the longer we stay there and we get nothing in return for it. They look at us as invaders and occupiers and that is exactly what we are.

Don't get me wrong, I got no problem with blowing things up and killing people if that is what needs to be done but I ll be damned if I am going to fix it. I like walk softly and carry a big stick, I will only add if your going to hit someone the stick hit them so hard they have no tomorrow.

As you say back to healthcare. There is zero evidence that this bill will get rid of freeloaders. Half of the uninsured are expected to get health coverage under the new health law via enrollment in Medicaid with almost no changes to improve or modernize the cumbersome, complex, and wasteful program. This will create a large expansion of medicaid for which the people who have to provide the safety net is not ready for.

Then there will be a large pool of people saying just fine me and they will still be freeloading. Not to even mention that the court will probably nix the mandate anyway.

The whole thing will be a catastrophic failure but it does not matter we can't afford it anyway.

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

you poop in clean water

#18 Apr 10, 2012
hmm

“no one told me”

Since: Dec 07

Denver

#19 Apr 10, 2012
BO, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Durbin, lying sacks of shit all.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#20 Apr 11, 2012
Eleanor wrote:
<quoted text>
As far as Medicaid is concerned, when hospitals accept pennies on the dollars from Medicaid and CHARGE regular insurance companies a HIGHER AMOUNT for someone else, isn't that basically insurance fraud??
If a doctor accepts, say $25 from a 'cash paying' patient and turns around and charges $50 from someone with insurance, THAT is fraud.
So, why isn't Medicaid considered FRAUD???
It's not fraud in either case. Cash paying customers are very rarely ever charged the same amount as an insured patient. Insurance companies know THEIR customers are charged more, but the company makes it up in premiums. Trust me, health insurance companies aren't hurting.

Fraud would be if a physician charged for a procedure never performed or for patients he never saw. He can, however, charge according to how he think he'll be reimbursed.

As for Medicaid, that's an agreement between the physician/facility with the governments involved. Not every doctor or facility will accept Medicaid. The ones that do are usually in urban, low-income areas. Reimbursement varies from state to state because states kick in a certain percentage.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#21 Apr 11, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me answer some of those questions for you cause I have no idea where you got the thoughts from,
I don't think we should be giving a dollar to any other country when we don't have enough money to take care of ourselves and have to borrow 40 cents of every dollar we give away to another country.
What the hell kind of sense it is to spend millions of dollars on high tech weapons to destroy things in Iraq then come in behind it and rebuild it all, they did not get that idea from me. If it were up to me we would not be there in the first place. Nor do I believe we should be over in Afghanistan, all we are doing are creating more enemies the longer we stay there and we get nothing in return for it. They look at us as invaders and occupiers and that is exactly what we are.
Don't get me wrong, I got no problem with blowing things up and killing people if that is what needs to be done but I ll be damned if I am going to fix it. I like walk softly and carry a big stick, I will only add if your going to hit someone the stick hit them so hard they have no tomorrow.
As you say back to healthcare. There is zero evidence that this bill will get rid of freeloaders. Half of the uninsured are expected to get health coverage under the new health law via enrollment in Medicaid with almost no changes to improve or modernize the cumbersome, complex, and wasteful program. This will create a large expansion of medicaid for which the people who have to provide the safety net is not ready for.
Then there will be a large pool of people saying just fine me and they will still be freeloading. Not to even mention that the court will probably nix the mandate anyway.
The whole thing will be a catastrophic failure but it does not matter we can't afford it anyway.
My view on war is that because it's so costly to society and the economy it should be a last resort, but America's greatest industry is the military, so war is what we do.

Anyway, back to healthcare. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. The system we have now is broken. It is very broken. The only reason people don't understand that is because 1. they don't work in healthcare so they don't see it, 2. they have health insurance so they think everything is just peachy, 3. they don't have health insurance and have no plan on ever paying a dime if they get sick.

Under our current broken system you and I are paying for ourselves and damn near everyone else. Our taxes cover Medicaid. Our insurance premiums cover non-pay people. I'm for at least for getting some of the non-paying people to be responsible and anti-up. And what THEY will pay for insurance will go towards helping cover the cost of Medicaid (which I hope could one day be drastically cut).

We have to start somewhere. We've sat around with our heads in the sand long enough. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but I'm telling you that within the next decade only the well-off will be affording health insurance. Employers want out of subsidizing employee healthcare. Soon you'll be paying a third of your paycheck to be insured or you'll do without. Our country can't sustain THAT many uninsured people. It will be a healthcare crisis.
Makes sense

Dearborn, MI

#22 Apr 11, 2012
It's a question of national security. What if there is biological warfare and the freeloaders with no insurance infect hard-working Americans?
Chicago Guy

Evanston, IL

#23 Apr 11, 2012
From the first sentence:

"a leading conservative economist"

Nuff said.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

George Mason University Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Medicaid estimate renews cost concerns over 'Ob... Aug '16 Synque 2
News The conflict between Islam and modernity (Jan '16) Jan '16 Tom bin Fontaine 7
News Ryan Gosling Endorses Bernie Sanders (Jan '16) Jan '16 Riding the Range 1
News Global warming? Public attitudes often at mercy... (Jan '14) Dec '15 Blessed Angie 2
News Remembering Sadie Cantone Pounder: 'a giant for... (Nov '14) Nov '15 Bill 2
News 2 compete to be PG prosecutor (Nov '15) Nov '15 YesSir 1
News The Church (Jun '14) Jul '15 Invisible Sky Daddy 31
More from around the web