American Airlines, Southwest diverge on labor approaches

Southwest Airlines Co. has negotiated contracts with three unions in recent months, and each of the deals would give pay raises to employees.

[RWG]

First off, Southwest A/L has got good labor relations, American Airlines does not.
Second, SWA management and labor work together, AAL's management and labor do not. Management has the attitude that labor can't be trusted and labor has the attitude, well proven by the way, that management can't be trusted.( because they can't)
( The manager of labor relations in TULE once told me that managements job at American Airlines is to keep the inmates from running the prison. With that kind of management how does this company ever expect to have loyal employees?)
Third, and most important, SWA gets more than 2 hours work from their employees per 8 hour day. American Airlines is lucky to get anything close to a 2 hours day out of their employees. Now they are there for 8 hours, but most of an American Airline employees days are spent trying to get out of work and figuring out how they can get overtime and doubletime for the coming weekend. This usually means taking 12 hours to do a 2 hour job and this attitude is a cancer throughout the company.
This is why SWA kicks AAL's tail and always will.
The bottom line is American Airlines has awful management with no ides of what teamwork is.

[Prost]

AA has undergone alot of cost cutting measures. They have taken from the hourly worker, and want to take more. The econonmy is is rough shape. While I would like more money, I understand it's stupid to break the bank and limit my future for short term gain. Management continues to take bonuses from money that does not exsist. The worst thing is the day to day waste. They expect everyone else to cut and save, while they still waste money doing business as usual with thier lives. Station visits should be a day trip. Instead they stay in top hotels and treat the stations upper management to dinner on the company credit card. Then they come in the next day and tell us they need to cut headcount. They heads that need to be cut are at the top. At the very least, let the "talent" we are giving retention bonuses to go elsewhere and bring in fresh blood.

[capt avgas]

When AA finally declares BK, then and only then will BOTH sides realize the seriousness of running an airline.

[Prost]

capt avgas wrote:

When AA finally declares BK, then and only then will BOTH sides realize the seriousness of running an airline.

The hourly worker knows. That's why I gave up $20,000 a year in wages and benefits back in 2003. If we go BK I will lose my pension, and likely be forced to relocate and lose my house AGAIN. Hence the anger over the waste and management taking of money even when they tell us there is nothing to give us.

[AAMech]

RWG wrote:

First off, Southwest A/L has got good labor relations, American Airlines does not.
Second, SWA management and labor work together, AAL's management and labor do not. Management has the attitude that labor can't be trusted and labor has the attitude, well proven by the way, that management can't be trusted.( because they can't)
( The manager of labor relations in TULE once told me that managements job at American Airlines is to keep the inmates from running the prison. With that kind of management how does this company ever expect to have loyal employees?)
Third, and most important, SWA gets more than 2 hours work from their employees per 8 hour day. American Airlines is lucky to get anything close to a 2 hours day out of their employees. Now they are there for 8 hours, but most of an American Airline employees days are spent trying to get out of work and figuring out how they can get overtime and doubletime for the coming weekend. This usually means taking 12 hours to do a 2 hour job and this attitude is a cancer throughout the company.
This is why SWA kicks AAL's tail and always will.
The bottom line is American Airlines has awful management with no ides of what teamwork is.

I don't know of anyone working 2 hours a day. Can't turnaround a 777 in 15 days working 2 hours a day.
And there has not been doubletime here in years.
We get along fine with management as far as I know in Hangar 6.
If someone is taking 12 hours to do a 2 hour job something is very wrong with that person and it will be noticed.
No more paper here...mostly computer software now that lets you and everyone know a task is overdue.
No excuses. And you've better have a reason.

What are you talking about?

[George]

BK is not an option, and never has been. Too much in terms of assets and owned A/C. 100 787's on order and 3 brand new 737's now delievered every month for the next 3 years.

Good source- AA is going to be owned by at least one or more of it's employee groups, starting with the pilot's. Managment be hired by and work for the invested employee's in the airline's best interest.

[RWG]

To AA mech:
It is easy to get a plane done when most mechs are only working 2 hours a day. All management does, like they always have, is add more mechs and basically have 4 or 5 mechs for every needed job.
Now when you are talking getting planes out on time are you talking about having a late plane put in service and then taking it right back out again and calling it a drop in? I can't remember how manay times my management,in hangar 6, did this. The plane is actually late but because they made it a drop in it goes in the record as on time.

[RWG]

P.S. To AA mech;
If things are so great at AAL between managemnt and labor, then why isn't the company making money hand over fist ??? Why did the TWU have to go into mediation? Why is that MR. AA mech ???????
Do you actually think that if you find a defect on an outgoing aircraft and your superviser says "don't worry about it" and it's something you know must be fixed, do you honestly think if you go above th supervisers head that management won't pay you back for doing that? After all, in managements eyes you are but a non thinking drone. If you do think they'll just let it go, you are very foolish.
When you get to a point when you can report a problem on a plane to your superviser and he will actaully listen and not retaliate against you, let me know.

[AAMech]

RWG wrote:

To AA mech:
It is easy to get a plane done when most mechs are only working 2 hours a day. All management does, like they always have, is add more mechs and basically have 4 or 5 mechs for every needed job.
Now when you are talking getting planes out on time are you talking about having a late plane put in service and then taking it right back out again and calling it a drop in? I can't remember how manay times my management,in hangar 6, did this. The plane is actually late but because they made it a drop in it goes in the record as on time.

Apparently you have not been here in a while.
And you seem bitter about something.

[AAMech]

RWG wrote:

P.S. To AA mech;
If things are so great at AAL between managemnt and labor, then why isn't the company making money hand over fist ??? Why did the TWU have to go into mediation? Why is that MR. AA mech ???????
Do you actually think that if you find a defect on an outgoing aircraft and your superviser says "don't worry about it" and it's something you know must be fixed, do you honestly think if you go above th supervisers head that management won't pay you back for doing that? After all, in managements eyes you are but a non thinking drone. If you do think they'll just let it go, you are very foolish.
When you get to a point when you can report a problem on a plane to your superviser and he will actaully listen and not retaliate against you, let me know.

Because there are contract talks I guess. It's what goes on when you are in a Union.
I don't think any airline ever made money hand over fist except for maybe Southwest.
But that is not my problem.
I don't worry about this sort of thing anyway.

Everything is fine here. We have work to do.
And I don't know of anyone angry or upset about anything.....pretty normal around here to me.
Guys are talking about the economy,family,AIG,job losses,401k,Battlestar Gallactica finale,Obama,Windows 7,etc..
Rarely hear much about negotiations.
No excitement here except for the popcorn fire in the microwave 2 weeks ago.

The world is changing man and reality is setting in. I think that most people realize it here. We don't even use paper E58s anymore...all wireless toughbooks and desktop computers for everything.
All you do here is in the system.
More than just turning a wrench.
And the responsibility is on us now. The feds will come after us.
If the aircraft is unsafe it's not going anywhere and we can pull the data to back it up.
Management knows this and works with us.
They listen here.
It is all about the aircraft as far as I'm concerned.

Some people don't like change.
And you will always have your troublemakers and slugs like anywhere else i guess.

[RWG]

To: AAMech;
I am very glad to hear those comments from you. Maybe you are right, I hope so, that things have changed at AAL since I was there. It sounds like a good place to work now. When I was there I truly hated to go to work every day as most of the people I worked with had awful attitudes and went out of there way to slow things down and my managemnt was so inept and incompetent, I actually fely embarassed working for them. They could not manage a one car funeral and what made it worse is they were very untrustworthy and lied all the time.They just could not be trusted for anything.
My attitude then as it is now was I hated the management but loved the airline.
Thanks again for the info and I realley hope thingas have turned around there like you say they have. Thanks !