Lost in a Rising Sea

Lost in a Rising Sea

There are 34 comments on the Biscayne Boulevard Times story from Sep 3, 2012, titled Lost in a Rising Sea. In it, Biscayne Boulevard Times reports that:

Reality check: One day in the foreseeable future, most homes and businesses along the Biscayne Corridor will be under water Thanks in large part to centuries of spewing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, we can expect higher temperatures, unstable weather patterns, and rising seas.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Biscayne Boulevard Times.

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“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#21 Sep 12, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
"The report shows that the sea-level rise hotspot is consistent with the slowing of Atlantic Ocean circulation. Models show this change in circulation may be tied to changes in water temperature, salinity and density in the subpolar north Atlantic."
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp...
As always, one says yes, the other says no. Until we can get our scientists on the same page, doing something even if it's wrong, is still wrong.
Asking scientists to get on the same page is about the same as asking Topix posters to agree.

When responding to LessFact, it's always a good idea to consider who he'll reply as, the not recently seen NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, or Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#22 Sep 12, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
"The report shows that the sea-level rise hotspot is consistent with ..
Invasion by Martians. But being 'consistent with' is not evidence of the slowing of the THC or invasion by martians. It just means that it is irrelevant to any evidence or not affected by any evidence. It is up to YOU to find supporting evidence for the facts you are trying to claim.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#23 Sep 13, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, aka:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
Invasion by Martians. But being 'consistent with' is not evidence of the slowing of the THC or invasion by martians.
Make you mind up, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty, is it martians with a capital M, or martians with a lower case m?
NoFactAllHype wrote:
It just means that it is irrelevant to any evidence or not affected by any evidence. It is up to YOU to find supporting evidence for the facts you are trying to claim.
I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence to support your hypothesis that forty was ever spelt with a U?
That cars can be charged with road collisions?
That ice calving is restricted by size?
That deforestations is a consequence of AGW?
That the equator doesn't have season?
That vikings didn't know how to live in a warmer Greenland?
That New Moore island is in the MOUTH of the several rivers?
That insects and plants don't qualify as species?
That Enercon install offshore wind generators?
That scientific laws are not science?
That climate and weather are not 'linked'?
That predictions are only for astrologers?
That ethanol is a very workable and effective solution?
That AGW is just the warming of the global average surface temperature due to GHGs?
That AGW is the global average?
That the science says that human emissions are responsible for MOST of AGW, which has SOME unknown but significant part of climate change?
That the IPCC report of 2001 and 2007 clearly show that GHGs are by far the largest contributor but not the exclusive contributor to AGW?
That America only has two political parties?
That climate and weather are not 'linked'?
That 'nondenier' is a real word?
That fruiting plants are especially chosen by bees for, "polination?"
That we acted on CFCs in the 70s?
That CO2 is not vital for life on planet Earth?
That CO2 causes, "thermal pollution?"
That CO2 is a 'thermal pollutant'?
That CO2 levels are rising faster than the temperature can react?
That AGW is comparable to the Holocaust?
Please show the "ararmist club" and membership list?
That theory is the endpoint of science?
That the 'unproven' stuff is 'hypothesis'?
That the fact that all the scientific authorities confirm AGW as theory means that it IS science fact as defined?
That there are no 'laws of science'?
That scientific laws are NOT science?
That the science isn't going to change?
That while the science doesn't change rapidly it does change?
That nowhere is there 'skepticism' of the science?
That experiment is NOT science?
That experiment can only give you data. It cannot PROVE anything?
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#24 Sep 13, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Invasion by Martians. But being 'consistent with' is not evidence of the slowing of the THC or invasion by martians. It just means that it is irrelevant to any evidence or not affected by any evidence. It is up to YOU to find supporting evidence for the facts you are trying to claim.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n70...

Slowing of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation at 25° N

Harry L. Bryden1, Hannah R. Longworth1 and Stuart A. Cunningham1

Top of page
The Atlantic meridional overturning circulation carries warm upper waters into far-northern latitudes and returns cold deep waters southward across the Equator1. Its heat transport makes a substantial contribution to the moderate climate of maritime and continental Europe, and any slowdown in the overturning circulation would have profound implications for climate change. A transatlantic section along latitude 25° N has been used as a baseline for estimating the overturning circulation and associated heat transport2, 3, 4. Here we analyse a new 25° N transatlantic section and compare it with four previous sections taken over the past five decades. The comparison suggests that the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation has slowed by about 30 per cent between 1957 and 2004. Whereas the northward transport in the Gulf Stream across 25° N has remained nearly constant, the slowing is evident both in a 50 per cent larger southward-moving mid-ocean recirculation of thermocline waters, and also in a 50 per cent decrease in the southward transport of lower North Atlantic Deep Water between 3,000 and 5,000 m in depth. In 2004, more of the northward Gulf Stream flow was recirculating back southward in the thermocline within the subtropical gyre, and less was returning southward at depth.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#25 Sep 13, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n70...
Slowing of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation at 25° N
Harry L. Bryden1, Hannah R. Longworth1 and Stuart A. Cunningham1
This was the 2005 paper that raised the question about slowing of the THC. MY reference was the 2010 report by NASA that showed it was not factual.

Try to keep up. Digging up early papers that have been rebutted is the work of a fool.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#26 Sep 13, 2012
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, aka:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
The north pole is often ice free.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/arboles-co/TK...
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
The north pole was ice free in 2000 so it is nothing new.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/arboles-co/TK...
<<<<<<<
Thursday, October 28, 2010 - North Pole May Be Ice-Free for First Time This Summer
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/...
19 Jan 2011 – North Pole May Be Ice-Free for First Time This Summer
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#27 Sep 14, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
This was the 2005 paper that raised the question about slowing of the THC. MY reference was the 2010 report by NASA that showed it was not factual.
Try to keep up. Digging up early papers that have been rebutted is the work of a fool.
As I said, one scientist says one thing, the other scientist says another.

Less, NASA is not always right and often doesn't agree with 'itself'. For example, the very same satelitte data that is used in your reference was also used to state a weakening in 2005.

NASA in 2005 used the data to state a weakening, and in 2010 after adjustments, NASA used the same data to say it wasn't.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the European winters have been colder with more snow, something that happens when the currents weaken.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#28 Sep 14, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, one scientist says one thing, the other scientist says another.
Science improves with more rigorous studies and with later results confirming or rebutting early results (or the work of weak junior scientists trying to make a name for themselves and publishing 'early results' with perhaps weak rigor)

You really need to get some education in science. Your silly posts are getting really pathetic.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#29 Sep 14, 2012
"There is confusion about how the North Atlantic circulation is changing. Some ocean observations suggest as low down of the
MOC by as much as 30% over the last 50 years with the change in structure so that less North Atlantic Deep Water flows southward,
and more upper waters arecirculated in the subtropical gyre (Bryden etal.,2005). A possible weakening of the MOC is supported by observations of a cessation in the formation of
lower North Atlantic DeepWater (Řsterhus and Gammelsrod, 1999), a decrease in the amount of cold dense over flow waters through the Faroe Bank Channel(Hansen etal.,2001), reduced
northward flow of upperwaters through the subpolar gyre (Lherminier etal.,2006), and a freshening of northern Atlantic
surface and deep waters(Curry etal., 2003, Dicksonetal., 2002).

However otherobservationsdonotsupporta weakeningMOC.
Olsen etal.(2008) found thattherewasnotrendintheFaroe
Bank Channeloverflow,and Holliday etal.(2008) report a
reversal ofthepreviouslyobservedfreshen ingtrendofthe
northeast NorthAtlanticandNordicSeas—pos sibly causedbya
reduced contributionofwaterfromthesubp olargyre(Ha´ tu´ n
et al.,2005;H¨akkinen andRhines,2004) orbysurfacewaters
from theGulfStreamreachingtheRockal lTroughthroughthe
subtropical gyre(H¨akkinen andRhines,2009). Formorediscus-
sion ontheevidenceforthechangingMOC ,see Cunningham and
Marsh (2010)."

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/phod/docs/2011_DSRII...
litesong

Everett, WA

#30 Sep 14, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
You(fun farts) really need to get some education in science.
fun farts never got any upper class science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra or pre-calc for his hi skul deegreee, because he couldn't compete against the top students that really learned math & science.

Actually, he may not have a hi skul deegreee since he agrees with & defends 'steenking pidding diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling' continually. Since he defends 'steenking pidding diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling', who is a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig, there is a good chance that 'fun farts' also is a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig.

LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#31 Sep 14, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
"There is confusion about how the North Atlantic circulation is changing.
YOU are certainly confused. But that is because you cannot read papers such as your reference to extract the meaning. It says that there are large variations in flow over days, weeks, months, etc. These mean that if you take a 'snapshot' you can get any value you want. A problem with early studies. One of the basics of the NASA correction to the 2005 paper is to corrrect for the short term variations. Once they did this, they found that OVERALL the THC had not changed significantly. This study is just one of the supporting documents.

Too bad you cannot learn. You waste a LOT of space with your juvenile ramblings.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#32 Sep 14, 2012
What about the space you've wasted here over time, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty?

You may one day get around to correcting some of these schoolboy howlers:

Forty is spelt with a U
Etymology is not a serious subject
Deforestations is a consequence of AGW
Epistemologists compile dictionaries
Epystemologists compile dictionaries
Samuel Johnson was an American
Ice calving is restricted by size
Spelt is only an ancient grain
The equator doesn't have season
Cars can be charged with road collisions
Vikings didn't know how to live in a warmer Greenland
How much heat you are transferring at one time has NO relationship to the temperature of any objects
Alberta is a country
New Moore island is in the MOUTH of the several rivers
Insects and plants don't qualify as species
Enercon install offshore wind generators
Scientific laws are not science
Climate and weather are not 'linked'
Predictions are for astrologers
Ethanol is a very workable and effective solution
AGW is just the warming of the global average surface temperature due to GHGs
AGW is the global average
The science says that human emissions are responsible for MOST of AGW, which has SOME unknown but significant part of climate change
The IPCC report of 2001 and 2007 clearly show that GHGs are by far the largest contributor but not the exclusive contributor to AGW
America has two political parties
Climate and weather are not 'linked'
'nondenier' is a real word
Fruiting plants are especially chosen by bees for, "polination"
We acted on CFCs in the 70s
CO2 is not vital for life on planet Earth
CO2 causes, "thermal pollution"
CO2 is a 'thermal pollutant'
CO2 levels are rising faster than the temperature can react
AGW is comparable to the Holocaust
Please show this 'ararmist club' and membership list
And theory is the endpoint of science
The 'unproven' stuff is 'hypothesis'
The fact that all the scientific authorities confirm AGW as theory means that it IS science fact as defined
There are no 'laws of science'
Scientific laws are NOT science
the science isn't going to change
While the science doesn't change rapidly it does change
And nowhere is there 'skepticism' of the science
Experiment is NOT science
Experiment can only give you data. it cannot PROVE anything
PHD

Houston, TX

#33 Sep 14, 2012
Earthling-1 wrote:
What about the space you've wasted here over time, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty?
You may one day get around to correcting some of these schoolboy howlers:
Forty is spelt with a U
Etymology is not a serious subject
Deforestations is a consequence of AGW
Epistemologists compile dictionaries
Epystemologists compile dictionaries
Samuel Johnson was an American
Ice calving is restricted by size
Spelt is only an ancient grain
The equator doesn't have season
Cars can be charged with road collisions
Vikings didn't know how to live in a warmer Greenland
How much heat you are transferring at one time has NO relationship to the temperature of any objects
Alberta is a country
New Moore island is in the MOUTH of the several rivers
Insects and plants don't qualify as species
Enercon install offshore wind generators
Scientific laws are not science
Climate and weather are not 'linked'
Predictions are for astrologers
Ethanol is a very workable and effective solution
AGW is just the warming of the global average surface temperature due to GHGs
AGW is the global average
The science says that human emissions are responsible for MOST of AGW, which has SOME unknown but significant part of climate change
The IPCC report of 2001 and 2007 clearly show that GHGs are by far the largest contributor but not the exclusive contributor to AGW
America has two political parties
Climate and weather are not 'linked'
'nondenier' is a real word
Fruiting plants are especially chosen by bees for, "polination"
We acted on CFCs in the 70s
CO2 is not vital for life on planet Earth
CO2 causes, "thermal pollution"
CO2 is a 'thermal pollutant'
CO2 levels are rising faster than the temperature can react
AGW is comparable to the Holocaust
Please show this 'ararmist club' and membership list
And theory is the endpoint of science
The 'unproven' stuff is 'hypothesis'
The fact that all the scientific authorities confirm AGW as theory means that it IS science fact as defined
There are no 'laws of science'
Scientific laws are NOT science
the science isn't going to change
While the science doesn't change rapidly it does change
And nowhere is there 'skepticism' of the science
Experiment is NOT science
Experiment can only give you data. it cannot PROVE anything
And you can't answer a 2nd grade question. There you go again making an ASSumption of your self.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#34 Sep 15, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU are certainly confused. But that is because you cannot read papers such as your reference to extract the meaning. It says that there are large variations in flow over days, weeks, months, etc. These mean that if you take a 'snapshot' you can get any value you want. A problem with early studies. One of the basics of the NASA correction to the 2005 paper is to corrrect for the short term variations. Once they did this, they found that OVERALL the THC had not changed significantly. This study is just one of the supporting documents.
Too bad you cannot learn. You waste a LOT of space with your juvenile ramblings.
Less, it's not I who does not understand. The MOC is huge, takes a while to change from positive to negative. And once changed, like the PDO, will still exhibit aspects of the 'other phase'.

You're right that a snapshot will not tell you anymore about the status than one month of temps tells you about warming. From the reference:

"There is confusion about how the North Atlantic circulation is changing. Some ocean observations suggest as low down of the
MOC by as much as 30% over the last 50 years with the change in structure so that less North Atlantic Deep Water flows southward,.."

That says, what I said before, one scientists says yes the other says no. Why, because we don't know enough yet to make a solid determination.

Take a look at the graph, yes hot in the US and arctic, but very cold in many places.
http://www.worldweatherpost.com/2012/02/03/eu...

It takes looking at the whole picture, or at least at as much of the puzzle as you have been able to complete, before you can see what is really happening.

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