Panelists at discussion on atheism: N...

Panelists at discussion on atheism: No faith, no problem

There are 160 comments on the MLive.com story from Sep 15, 2011, titled Panelists at discussion on atheism: No faith, no problem. In it, MLive.com reports that:

Living without religion: Panelists discuss how they have been affected by not following religion.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at MLive.com.

Amused

Billerica, MA

#21 Sep 16, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>Only in your narrow little world.
Well, how about the world of Martin Luther? He was the founder of protestantism, and all christianity outside the Catholic and Orthodox churches trace their roots back to Luther.

Here's just a sample of Martin Luther's thinking on the relationship between reason and faith:

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not -- struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God."

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."

"There is on earth among all dangers no more dangerous thing than a richly endowed and adroit reason... Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed."
Martin Luther, quoted by Walter Kaufmann, The Faith of a Heretic,(Garden City, NY, Doubleday, 1963), p. 75

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason."

"To be a Christian, you must "pluck out the eye of reason."

So it isn't just an atheist thing - christians also believe one must choose between using your critical thinking and having faith. Choosing both is not an option. So says the founder of your religion.
Amused

Billerica, MA

#22 Sep 16, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>I am not going to "show" you anything. You won't believe it anyway so slamming my head against a brick wall will benefit me not in the least. You choose to not believe, please continue.
Translation into English*: "I can't think of a single example".

*Using my trusty English/Christian Christian/English dictionary.
Amused

Billerica, MA

#23 Sep 16, 2011
Gville Jim wrote:
<quoted text>Can you show us with a good example of how your "faith" in atheism has benifited anyone?.... Show us the evidence....
Atheists don't have "faith" in atheism. Atheism is merely the refusal to accept an assertion of the existence of a deity without evidence. Faith is the acceptance of any proposition in the absence of any evidence.

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#24 Sep 16, 2011
Arctic49519 wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole "salvation" thing is just a con. Christianity had to manufacture the ailment (original sin, eternal damnation, etc.) in order to sell it's cure (salvation.)
It's typical snake oil salesmanship.
Well, you should recognize a snake oil salesman from a mile away...what with your worship of the unions and all.

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#25 Sep 16, 2011
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Translation into English*: "I can't think of a single example".
*Using my trusty English/Christian Christian/English dictionary.
No wonder you have issues. You need to have an English/Christian dictionary. Most people don't need to translate plain English. I feel bad for you. As for "can't think of a single example", wrong, but I have wasted my time with Arctic before and since you sound just like him, I have wasted all the time with you I choose to spend.
Amused

Winthrop, MA

#26 Sep 16, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>No wonder you have issues. You need to have an English/Christian dictionary. Most people don't need to translate plain English. I feel bad for you. As for "can't think of a single example", wrong, but I have wasted my time with Arctic before and since you sound just like him, I have wasted all the time with you I choose to spend.
Perhaps it would help confuse us if you ran away some more.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#27 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>I would submit that if you had the faith necessary, you would see that you can follow your faith AND make decisions based on real-world and critical thinking skills AND still learn something new every day. I have.
Let's examine that a bit.

Faith? That is telling yourself something that you >>want<< to be true-- something you >>wish<< were true... is true.

If you had proof? You'd not need faith, would you? So you do not have any proof.

In short: faith is telling yourself a lie-- so often-- that you forget it's a lie. That is faith.

As such, faith is not compatible with critical thinking--unless you carefully wall-off your faith-thoughts from your critical thinking-thoughts.

For as soon as you examine your faith with a critical eye?

You remember that it was initially a lie-- and not true.

So... no.

Not really.

Unless, as I pointed out-- you wall-off part of your mind from the other part.

There's a word for such things. And it's not a healthy word, either...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#28 Sep 17, 2011
Sneaky Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably has benefited you. If most of us here didn't have religion to guide us, we'd have come over to your house long ago and knocked some sense upside your useless liberal head. Ha-ha-ha!!!
Witness the >>real<< consequences of a Genuine Christian(tm):

Thoughts of violence are ever present in their minds, only held in check by the fact that the US Constitution forbids them from burning heretics...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#29 Sep 17, 2011
Sneaky Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a joke. Apparently you people here in this forum are a little slower than most, eh?
Without specific and clear indicators, it is impossible (on a medium that only uses words) to tell the difference between parody and the Real Thing(r)-- with regards to True Believers(tm).

:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#30 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>I am not going to "show" you anything.
Because... you have >>nothing<< to show?

Hmmmm.....

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#31 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>So, do you just accept everything that is told to you without using your critical thinking skills to determine whether what you have heard is correct? I know I don't.
Lie.

If you did >>not<< blindly accept as "true" the idea of 'god'?

You would be an atheist-- the default state of humans.

At >>some<< point, you-- without critical thought-- blindly accepted the statement "god is real".

What's worse?

You then went on to blindly accept, "god is not only real, and you can have a personal relationship with it".

And you've been duped ever since...

... never-EVER digging into these two fundamental lies.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#32 Sep 17, 2011
Gville Jim wrote:
<quoted text>Can you show us with a good example of how your "faith" in atheism has benifited anyone?.... Show us the evidence....
Okay: all of modern scientific discovery, including (but not limited to), Modern Medicine, Modern Electronics, Modern Air Flight, The Space Program, Modern Education, Universities, the idea of a Democracy, the idea of a Republic, the idea that all humans are equal, the notion that there are basic--fundamental rights for >>everyone<< and not just The Chosen People, etc, etc.

Religion has provided... what?

What >>new<< >>knowledge<< has >>religion<< discovered, since it's fabrication 15,000 years ago?

Hmmm?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#33 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>Yes I have used critical thinking and reason in my study of the Bible. That has led me to this conclusion, "Doctrine is man made, Salvation is God made and I don't need the man made." I know that many don't subscribe to that and that is their conclusion to which they are entitled.
Then?

You did not actually >>study<< either the bible as a whole, or it's history...

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#34 Sep 17, 2011
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Then?
You did not actually >>study<< either the bible as a whole, or it's history...
You have spent a lot of time calling me a liar. Know me personally or projecting your thought process onto me??? I don't feel the need to "prove" anything to you or anyone else. I believe and that is all that I have to say. I owe you or anyone else nothing. The fact that you are unwilling to accept that I believe shows where your thought process is. You have every right to not believe and please continue to not believe. But, don't continue to tell me that I am a liar and stupid because I do believe. However, knowing how this works, you will continue to do so. The only thing transparent here is the fact that atheists, generally, will not tolerate anyone who believes or thinks differently than they do. It's been that way for a very long time and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#35 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>You have spent a lot of time calling me a liar.
Then?

How about you quit lying... and we won't feel the need to call you on your more obvious lies.

It really is as simple as all that...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#36 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
I don't feel the need to "prove" anything to you or anyone else.
Of course!

Because you know, deep-down, you can't prove the lie.

This is your inner-most part of your brain, telling you it's just a lie.

So you say, "I don't feel the need to prove my lies are not lies--because I know they are just lies".

That's the nature of belief, after all.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#37 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
I owe you or anyone else nothing.
Wrong: the history of your evil death-cult says otherwise.

At the very least? You have many apologies to make, to the many different peoples who's culture was wiped out by xianity down through the years.

Then, there's all those dead "witches" your death-cult burned.

And of course, in the modern times?

There are all the women who's lives is ruined, because of you Xianists keeping safe and effective abortions from happening-- or putting barriers up, such that most women no longer have access.

And, let us not forget all the gays, who, thanks to your cult, are prevented from their right to marry the adult of their choice.

But finally? You owe a >>huge<< apology to all those kids who were taught that 'creationism' is actually a valid viewpoint.(it's not--it's 100% false). And thus, ruined these kid's ability to understand science.. and the consequences of >>that<< is US's ability to compete in the world, education-wise, is compromised.

So, no-- you are wrong. Again.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#38 Sep 17, 2011
The Real Sandy wrote:
The only thing transparent here is the fact that atheists, generally, will not tolerate anyone who believes or thinks differently than they do.
Wrong.

What we do not tolerate is you passing LAWS based on your false beliefs.

THAT is the fact-jack.

We do not care WHAT nonsense you choose to worship-- so long as you confine that in the privacy of your own home and/or church.

But we >>do<< insist your church start paying it's fair share of the tax burden, instead of continuing to be a parasitic-bloat (your church enjoys the >>benefits<< of tax revenue, such as roads, fire protection, police, water, etc... but shares NONE of the tax burden).

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#39 Sep 18, 2011
Sneaky Pete wrote:
<quoted text>It was a joke. Apparently you people here in this forum are a little slower than most, eh?
Sometimes it's very difficult to tell who's joking and who's being serious.

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#40 Sep 18, 2011
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
What we do not tolerate is you passing LAWS based on your false beliefs.
THAT is the fact-jack.
We do not care WHAT nonsense you choose to worship-- so long as you confine that in the privacy of your own home and/or church.
But we >>do<< insist your church start paying it's fair share of the tax burden, instead of continuing to be a parasitic-bloat (your church enjoys the >>benefits<< of tax revenue, such as roads, fire protection, police, water, etc... but shares NONE of the tax burden).
Yeah,... but you dont mind if the taxpayers pay for all of Jeremiah Wrights visits to the white house every month.
I wonder if he pays taxes on those benifits?
He is the most popular visitor to the White House since January of 2009.
How much money does Trinity United Church pay in taxes?
I guess in your hypocritcal mind thats all different because he is Obama's pastor, and he, and his church get a "pass" on that!

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