Panelists at discussion on atheism: No faith, no problem

Living without religion: Panelists discuss how they have been affected by not following religion.

[Cornell Navarre-Jones]

By not following religion to the satisfaction of the said religion, I have been positively affected. My everyday life is free to make decisions based on real-world and critical thinking skills; that, I am still learning.

[The Real Sandy]

Cornell Navarre-Jones wrote:

By not following religion to the satisfaction of the said religion, I have been positively affected. My everyday life is free to make decisions based on real-world and critical thinking skills; that, I am still learning.

I would submit that if you had the faith necessary, you would see that you can follow your faith AND make decisions based on real-world and critical thinking skills AND still learn something new every day. I have.

[Arctic49519]

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive.

[The Real Sandy]

Arctic49519 wrote:

Faith and reason are mutually exclusive.

Only in your narrow little world.

[The Solipsist]

The Real Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>I would submit that if you had the faith necessary, you would see that you can follow your faith AND make decisions based on real-world and critical thinking skills AND still learn something new every day. I have.

I'm not clear on how critical thinking, which would encourage the questioning of assumptions and reasons for belief, would be compatible with the flavours of religious faith that are most common in the world.

Throughout the course of my life so far, I have met a few people (fewer than ten) who have consciously chosen non-dogmatic, rational approaches to spirituality. Their beliefs would not even be recognisable as bona fide spirituality to the True Believers (TM), however. It is not an easy path to take and personally I don't see the value in it, but I admire and respect the approach.

Where was I? Oh yes. Basically, I don't see religious faith as necessary or desirable. Combining spirituality (in general) with skepticism and critical thinking is a very difficult path to tread, and based on my experiences only very few people can actually pull it off. It's certainly not for me.

[Arctic49519]

The Real Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>Only in your narrow little world.

Yeah,right... show us with a good example of how your "faith" has benefited anyone... Show us the evidence....

[Sneaky Pete]

Arctic49519 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah,right... show us with a good example of how your "faith" has benefited anyone... Show us the evidence....

Probably has benefited you. If most of us here didn't have religion to guide us, we'd have come over to your house long ago and knocked some sense upside your useless liberal head. Ha-ha-ha!!!

[The Solipsist]

Sneaky Pete wrote:

<quoted text>
Probably has benefited you. If most of us here didn't have religion to guide us, we'd have come over to your house long ago and knocked some sense upside your useless liberal head. Ha-ha-ha!!!

So does that mean that most of the people who are currently religious are inherently immoral and need religion to keep them in check?

I find it unlikely.

[Sneaky Pete]

The Solipsist wrote:

<quoted text>
So does that mean that most of the people who are currently religious are inherently immoral and need religion to keep them in check?
I find it unlikely.

It was a joke. Apparently you people here in this forum are a little slower than most, eh?

[The Solipsist]

Sneaky Pete wrote:

<quoted text>
It was a joke. Apparently you people here in this forum are a little slower than most, eh?

My apologies. In another thread where I was posting recently someone made exactly the same point in complete seriousness.

Unfortunately it is not always possible to distinguish the parody from the parodied, especially when reading someone for the first time.

[The Real Sandy]

Arctic49519 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah,right... show us with a good example of how your "faith" has benefited anyone... Show us the evidence....

I am not going to "show" you anything. You won't believe it anyway so slamming my head against a brick wall will benefit me not in the least. You choose to not believe, please continue.

[The Real Sandy]

The Solipsist wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not clear on how critical thinking, which would encourage the questioning of assumptions and reasons for belief, would be compatible with the flavours of religious faith that are most common in the world.
Throughout the course of my life so far, I have met a few people (fewer than ten) who have consciously chosen non-dogmatic, rational approaches to spirituality. Their beliefs would not even be recognisable as bona fide spirituality to the True Believers (TM), however. It is not an easy path to take and personally I don't see the value in it, but I admire and respect the approach.
Where was I? Oh yes. Basically, I don't see religious faith as necessary or desirable. Combining spirituality (in general) with skepticism and critical thinking is a very difficult path to tread, and based on my experiences only very few people can actually pull it off. It's certainly not for me.

So, do you just accept everything that is told to you without using your critical thinking skills to determine whether what you have heard is correct? I know I don't. I dig and dig and delve to satisfy myself and my need for knowledge. I don't think that critical thinking and faith cannot cohabitate together within me. Faith is merely believing in something you cannot see. I don't have a problem with that, but for some it is an issue.

[Gville Jim]

Arctic49519 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah,right... show us with a good example of how your "faith" has benefited anyone... Show us the evidence....

Can you show us with a good example of how your "faith" in atheism has benifited anyone?.... Show us the evidence....

[Very Cynical Person]

The Real Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>So, do you just accept everything that is told to you without using your critical thinking skills to determine whether what you have heard is correct? I know I don't. I dig and dig and delve to satisfy myself and my need for knowledge. I don't think that critical thinking and faith cannot cohabitate together within me. Faith is merely believing in something you cannot see. I don't have a problem with that, but for some it is an issue.

I do not know what your religious belief and or denomination is, but I will go on the assumption that it is of the Christian faith.

If so have you used critical thinking and reason in your study of the bible?

[Very Cynical Person]

Gville Jim wrote:

<quoted text>Can you show us with a good example of how your "faith" in atheism has benifited anyone?.... Show us the evidence....

There is no faith in atheism in the sense that a person has faith in a god. Atheism is the non belief in a god.

As for your question, I cannot show you I can only tell you what I have done to help others and make the world around me better to the best of my ability.

[The Solipsist]

The Real Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>So, do you just accept everything that is told to you without using your critical thinking skills to determine whether what you have heard is correct? I know I don't. I dig and dig and delve to satisfy myself and my need for knowledge.

I try to be skeptical (only believing things to the extent that evidence justifies it), but of course none of us is absolutely rational the whole time. That's part of what being human is.

The Real Sandy wrote:

I don't think that critical thinking and faith cannot cohabitate together within me. Faith is merely believing in something you cannot see. I don't have a problem with that, but for some it is an issue.

It's a particular problem for those faiths that contradict what we know from other fields (history, archaeology, etc.), and which also discourage questioning the dogma.

For more rational approaches to spirituality I've seen it done, so I'm not saying you're wrong - not by any means.

:)

[Gville Jim]

Very Cynical Person wrote:

<quoted text>
There is no faith in atheism in the sense that a person has faith in a god. Atheism is the non belief in a god.
As for your question, I cannot show you I can only tell you what I have done to help others and make the world around me better to the best of my ability.

O-K,.... then tell us!
I'd like to hear it!

[Arctic49519]

Sneaky Pete wrote:

<quoted text>
Probably has benefited you. If most of us here didn't have religion to guide us, we'd have come over to your house long ago and knocked some sense upside your useless liberal head. Ha-ha-ha!!!

You need an old bronze age book of primitive fiction and superstition to guide you?

That's really sad...

[The Real Sandy]

Very Cynical Person wrote:

<quoted text>
I do not know what your religious belief and or denomination is, but I will go on the assumption that it is of the Christian faith.
If so have you used critical thinking and reason in your study of the bible?

Yes I have used critical thinking and reason in my study of the Bible. That has led me to this conclusion, "Doctrine is man made, Salvation is God made and I don't need the man made." I know that many don't subscribe to that and that is their conclusion to which they are entitled.

[Arctic49519]

The Real Sandy wrote:

<quoted text>Yes I have used critical thinking and reason in my study of the Bible. That has led me to this conclusion, "Doctrine is man made, Salvation is God made and I don't need the man made." I know that many don't subscribe to that and that is their conclusion to which they are entitled.

The whole "salvation" thing is just a con. Christianity had to manufacture the ailment (original sin, eternal damnation, etc.) in order to sell it's cure (salvation.)

It's typical snake oil salesmanship.