Overturning Catholic Moral Teaching on Homosexuality: Are Salzman And Lawler Right?

Sep 30, 2010 Full story: www.huffingtonpost.com 21

Catholicism argues that homosexuals deserve legal protections, but not because homosexuality is a status. Catholicism says homosexual activity is a choice. So while bishops support non-discrimination policies, they won't agree that homosexuals are protected because of their genetic makeup. Catholic thinkers have grappled with this question for ages. Creighton University professors Todd A. Salzman and Michael G. Lawler are the latest voices on the Catholic circuit. Their 2008 book, "The Sexual Person," just earned a rebuke from the U.S. bishops' doctrine committee.

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Disgusted American

Cranbury, NJ

#1 Sep 30, 2010
I always break it down this way.....In Our Galaxy with 100's of Billions of Stars/Suns/Planets....which is 100,000 light yrs across..in the known Universe there are 100's of Billions of Galaxies...No Sky God,He/She/It/Entity..gives a ratz behind about us humans and what "we do" with our Human Private parts (hoo-hoos and Pee-pees)...we are NOT that Important in the Scheme and vastness if the Universe.....we are but a mere spec in the grand scale of the Universe....God is a "man-made" concept to keep the Sheeple / people in line....in Fear, and the coffers full $$$$..thats where Human Greed and Power come in...

“Adam and Steve”

Since: Aug 08

Earth

#2 Sep 30, 2010
I got a kick out of this bit from the author, Phyllis Zagano:

"In a way, I'd like to think otherwise. But, until I see the biological evidence [for homosexuality], I'll think Salzman and Lawler are wrong, and the accumulated wisdom of thousands of years of religious teaching is correct."

She wants concrete (biological) evidence for homosexuality; yet, she swallows, hook-line-and-sinker, the religious teachings that can never be verified with concrete (physical) evidence of any kind.

Go figure.

“Ask God for his ID card.”

Since: Sep 10

Secular Reality

#3 Sep 30, 2010
But, until I see the biological evidence, I'll think Salzman and Lawler are wrong, and the accumulated wisdom of thousands of years of religious teaching is correct.
Yes, the same 'wisdom' which teaches that a man is infallible and basically a god when he's voted in by a bunch of cardinals and dons a pointy white hat.

I could say more but Edio kind of summed it up.

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#4 Sep 30, 2010
I agree with the above posts, and am startled still further by a constant realization: Think about what "religious teaching" is IMPLYING.

NO THOUGHT FOR YOURSELF. HOW DARE YOU THINK FOR A MOMENT. Oh, no, no.

Instead ... we will *instruct* you what to believe.

Therein lies the logic that I use constantly, unceasingly in these arguments, and it seems to go regularly and totally *rrrright over* the heads of the "religious," like clockwork.

The argument is so simple that it sounds almost childish, but it is entirely logical:

Religion is "instructing" you what to believe and you have complied. Therefore, any entity can instruct you what to believe and you must comply. If you don't, you have picked and chosen your entities. THEREFORE, SO CAN I.

It couldn't get simpler.

If I *instruct* you to believe that any sexual orientation is acceptable and you buck me, YOU HAVE JUST PROVEN THAT I CAN IGNORE "CHURCH" TEACHING. You, with your sanctimony and your "catholicism" and whatnot.

The "RELIGIOUS" are the very ones PROVIDING THE JUSTIFICATION for you to IGNORE them -- yet keep doing what they're doing.

It couldn't be more perfect.

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#5 Sep 30, 2010
Edio wrote:
I got a kick out of this bit from the author, Phyllis Zagano:
"In a way, I'd like to think otherwise. But, until I see the biological evidence [for homosexuality], I'll think Salzman and Lawler are wrong, and the accumulated wisdom of thousands of years of religious teaching is correct."
She wants concrete (biological) evidence for homosexuality; yet, she swallows, hook-line-and-sinker, the religious teachings that can never be verified with concrete (physical) evidence of any kind.
Go figure.
They cannot avoid this and they will be hounded with it for as long as they reasonlessly harass gay people.

They are *pointedly choosing* what to believe, and the belief they *choose* serves ONLY THEMSELVES. What's it for? So-called "religious" belief? To what end? SALVATION.

Their "belief" is ENTIRELY self-serving and selfish. In the final analysis, stripped of all other reasoning and without any excuse on earth for what they do, it's about THEM, and their SELFISH desire to attain their own salvation, even to the point of attempting to damage, rape and disenfranchise others.

That chills my spine, because according to their own religious precepts, it shows *zero faith*-- none. And we all know what the bible says about THOSE WITH NO FAITH, in pretty plain words.
Duped since birth

Alexandria, VA

#6 Sep 30, 2010
The selection of a pope always amazed me. A bunch of men (only men of course) lock themselves into a room and vote on who is to be the next representative of their deity on earth. What arrogance!

And this started when? When their imaginary jesus died? No. Several centuries later.

I would think that any deity worth its salt (or whatever) would have a better method of selecting who it wanted to represent it here on earth.

How can any thinking person subscribe to this bunk?
Mona Lott

Jackson, NJ

#7 Sep 30, 2010
Duped since birth wrote:
The selection of a pope always amazed me. A bunch of men (only men of course) lock themselves into a room and vote on who is to be the next representative of their deity on earth. What arrogance!
And this started when? When their imaginary jesus died? No. Several centuries later.
I would think that any deity worth its salt (or whatever) would have a better method of selecting who it wanted to represent it here on earth.
How can any thinking person subscribe to this bunk?
They don't WANT to think. It requires too much effort and responsibility.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#8 Sep 30, 2010
Don't listen to ANYTHING the DAMN CATHOLICS have to say.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#9 Sep 30, 2010
Phyllis Zagano [Phyllis.Zagano@Hofstra.edu]

Her email address..

Go ahead send her one.. I did.. her response was

"Thank you for your comment."
What

Aldrich, MO

#10 Sep 30, 2010
Frank Stanton wrote:
Don't listen to ANYTHING the DAMN CATHOLICS have to say.
No and don't listen to what the Lord has to say either!
Kahn

Germany

#11 Sep 30, 2010
The books claims are anti-scientific. Homosexuality is neither genetic nor immutable.

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#12 Sep 30, 2010
Disgusted American wrote:
I always break it down this way.....In Our Galaxy with 100's of Billions of Stars/Suns/Planets....which is 100,000 light yrs across..in the known Universe there are 100's of Billions of Galaxies...No Sky God,He/She/It/Entity..gives a ratz behind about us humans and what "we do" with our Human Private parts (hoo-hoos and Pee-pees)...we are NOT that Important in the Scheme and vastness if the Universe.....we are but a mere spec in the grand scale of the Universe....God is a "man-made" concept to keep the Sheeple / people in line....in Fear, and the coffers full $$$$..thats where Human Greed and Power come in...
Excellent! These are the types of posts I love to read.

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#13 Sep 30, 2010
Mona Lott wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't WANT to think. It requires too much effort and responsibility.
Mona, good thinking!!

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#14 Sep 30, 2010
Duped since birth wrote:
The selection of a pope always amazed me. A bunch of men (only men of course) lock themselves into a room and vote on who is to be the next representative of their deity on earth. What arrogance!
And this started when? When their imaginary jesus died? No. Several centuries later.
I would think that any deity worth its salt (or whatever) would have a better method of selecting who it wanted to represent it here on earth.
How can any thinking person subscribe to this bunk?
LOL - The smoke might be from a crack pipe :) The way they behave says it could be so.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#15 Sep 30, 2010
Kahn wrote:
The books claims are anti-scientific. Homosexuality is neither genetic nor immutable.
How would you know ?

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#16 Oct 1, 2010
Im Skeptical wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the same 'wisdom' which teaches that a man is infallible and basically a god when he's voted in by a bunch of cardinals and dons a pointy white hat.
I could say more but Edio kind of summed it up.
Isn't it downright sickening? To say nothing of stupid.

“Can't Touch Dis!”

Since: Sep 10

Stroudsburg, PA

#17 Oct 1, 2010
Frank Stanton wrote:
Don't listen to ANYTHING the DAMN CATHOLICS have to say.
I know - they thrive on superstition, such as an image of their Virgin Goddess on a grilled cheese sandwich. Actually I think I saw her today in Walmart, exchanging a crucifix for a medal of HERSELF.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#19 Oct 2, 2010
MsSheryl wrote:
<quoted text>
I know - they thrive on superstition, such as an image of their Virgin Goddess on a grilled cheese sandwich. Actually I think I saw her today in Walmart, exchanging a crucifix for a medal of HERSELF.
I'm a devout regular-church-going Protestant. I'll tell you another weid thing the Catholics did by me about 2 years ago.

They put, ON DIPLAY, at the diocese headquarters, a 500 year old human heart of one of their "saints" for people to come and look at and ooh and aah over and pray over,

is that SICK or what ?!

TRUE STORY !

Since: Apr 07

Philadelphia, PA

#20 Oct 2, 2010
Troth for Leogere wrote:
Phyllis Zagano [Phyllis.Zagano@Hofstra.edu]
Her email address..
Go ahead send her one.. I did.. her response was
"Thank you for your comment."
In other words, she wants to be a parasitic dumbass with impunity.

She can talk until she keels over and expires in settling dust and starts to rot. I differ with her opinion and note *markedly and pointedly that HER OPINION* influences rights that *DON'T* affect her, but are taken away from *OTHER* people.

Every lawsuit, every little thing that's actually taking away their rights, I keep applauding it, I keep saying, bring it on. Keep taking them away, see how much they like it, and see how long they put up with it before it hits them that if ya LIVE AND LET LIVE, people leave you alone. Period.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#22 Oct 2, 2010
Frank Stanton wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm a devout regular-church-going Protestant. I'll tell you another weid thing the Catholics did by me about 2 years ago.
They put, ON DIPLAY, at the diocese headquarters, a 500 year old human heart of one of their "saints" for people to come and look at and ooh and aah over and pray over,
is that SICK or what ?!
TRUE STORY !
i suppose that it could have been worse... it could have been a fresh one. i doubt that it would have been the first time it had happened.

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